The Names of God (4): al-Rahman, "The Merciful"

Adnan Hussain: Bismillah ar-Rahman ar-Rahim. salam hello peace to you all and welcome to another episode in this continuing series of the names of god episode four Ar-Rahman, the all merciful, the infinite good. There are a variety of ways of thinking about how to define Ar-Rahman, which I think we'll be talking about in just a moment. It's great to have you back for this continuing series. I'm Adnan Hussain, and I'm delighted to be joined as ever with my colleague and co-host, Dr. Mark Applebaum. Mark, how are you doing?

Dr. Mark Applebaum: Great. Excited to jump off the cliff again. Let's see where we go.

Adnan Hussain: Yeah, that's right. But at least we're into something where there are clear descriptors. But, you know, again, there's always wrinkles to these things. So we'll be talking about that. I mentioned that Ar-Rahman, which is, of course, one of the most frequently used and cited names of God in the Quran and in Muslim devotional circles. the attributive names of God because of that frequency of use, but also because, as we noted in a previous episode when we were following At-Talim-Sani's discussion, that there is an important Quranic verse that really establishes the importance or significance of you know, Ar-Rahman as being a name of God, like Allah, that you can call upon God. In fact, in Surah Al-Isra, which is the 17th chapter of the Quran, verse 110, says, call upon God, or call upon the infinitely good, whichever you call upon, either Allah or Ar-Rahman, to him belong the names most beautiful or the most beautiful names. Yeah, yeah. So when we think about its significance and importance, it really can't be overemphasized. Sorry, it really can't be underemphasized. I mean, so, you know, maybe we should start with just thinking about that word.

Dr. Mark Applebaum: Yeah. I mean, even before jumping in, I'll just add to that. Tlemceni tells us that Ar-Rahman is the only other name besides Allah that refers specifically to the divine essence. That's how he puts it.

Adnan Hussain: so great let's let's let's talk about it yeah yeah that's right uh relates to the divine essence and encompasses all the other names somehow right that's right like one of the claims that he made when we were talking about allah in our last episode um And also, I think it's worth noting that it's a kind of distinctive usage. You don't find it being used to describe human mercy. So we'll be talking in another episode down the line, the other name of God that is closely paired with Ar-Rahman, Ar-Rahim, which comes from the same root, which we're going to discuss in a moment. which also might mean most compassionate or most merciful as well. That is an attribute in that adjectival form that can be used for human beings. But for some reason, which maybe we'll think about or explore, it is simply never applied as a descriptor of human beings. It is reserved very specifically only for for calling upon the divine, just as the verse seemed to suggest. You can call upon Allah, you can call upon Ar-Rahman, because these are specific to and unique to the divine essence, as you were pointing out. So what does this word mean? And let's think about this interesting aspect that it is both functioning in some ways as a proper noun, a name, you know, in that kind of narrow sense upon which to call God and call upon God. And at the same time, it does describe an attribute, a characteristic, a quality, a Rahman. It comes from the root of Raham. Rahama is like many of the languages of the Near East, Semitic languages, Arabic, many Arabic words, most Arabic words derived from three-letter roots, as we maybe mentioned before. And this one, Rahama, Rahman, and Rahim are both derived from the same root word.

Dr. Mark Applebaum: Yeah, and the reference to the womb is right there, along with the root, if you want to talk a bit about that, because I think that it's so close to... The span of this word, from its linguistic piece to how it's described by Ghazali and the Sufis, is vast. Everything from the origin of the individual human being, if we're thinking about womb, all of our origins, to the womb that we emerged from, that we were held in. to the giving birth, so to speak, of all of the cosmos through the Rahman, which is where we get to in Tlemceni.

Adnan Hussain: Right, so it's kind of like the universe is a cosmic womb, as it were, in which existence and life is ushered forth from and is there. And also, of course, it refers to the specific, you know, And so there is that kind of maternal component to the universe as a nurturing, fostering life with. And this is why it seemed that it was relationally important that all existent. All the names that posit existence in some ways, according to Tlemceni, are connected with this Rahman, a Rahman, because of the way in which all existence is somehow connected. Partaking in mercy, in the fact of existence is seen as somehow mercy.

Dr. Mark Applebaum: Mercy, compassion, tenderness, tenderhearted. These are all associations, right, with Rahman, with the word Rahman.

Adnan Hussain: Yeah. And we'll go for rahmah, for mercy, which is kind of the verbal noun, not the description of an attribute. But that reminds me that if we're talking about this kind of cosmic sense, there are a couple of verses in the Quran that are relevant to this cosmic idea of uh mercy being written in somehow in the fabric of existence particularly uh in the verses from i think it's surah al-araf the heights the sixth uh surah verse 12 and then repeated again in verse 54, there is a very curious statement about rahmah, mercy, that relates to any of these two you could say, relates to any of these two names, Ar-Rahman and Rahim, but really signals in some ways to me the way in which it's coterminous with Allah and maybe giving some sense of the logic of being able to call upon Ar-Rahman with Allah when praying to the Divine or calling upon the Divine. And that is that... In two occasions, we're instructed in the Quran to say and to describe that God wrote upon himself mercy. And then in one case, it's your Lord. wrote upon himself, mercy. And the, you know, the sense that writing has in this is like the sort of a divine contract, you know, an obligation that you write down obliging oneself or it's so expressive of the divine relationship to creation as a whole that mercy is uh authorized and of course theologically speaking you know these concepts about god are always um you know about how god can't be constrained right and there are other other uh names that would talk about the you know the might and the power the sovereignty of god um that are about the limitlessness about the lack of constraint right and yet here it is that the quran in two places um asserts uh that god has uh somehow obliged mercy as necessity uh upon himself so that kind of suggests the priority in a way of this principle that I think is quite, quite powerful, this idea.

Dr. Mark Applebaum: Yeah, and not to jump ahead too fast, but we might imagine, because I think what we're telling people or what we're beginning to explore with our listeners is how God could be understood or imagined or the source of being could be imagined as God. infinitely merciful, compassionate, tenderhearted, even if we want to think about it that way. And looking around the world, the commitment to the Rahman that you're just mentioning, even in the Quranic context, we could imagine that as over and against the wrath, right? And so, uh, or wrathful attributes of, uh, God or creation or being, uh, and so his mercy exceeds his wrath or his, his mercy is, is, is over and above his wrath is theologically is going to be an idea that I imagine we're going to circle back around to more than once as we talk about the names.

Adnan Hussain: Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think we will have to. But it's great that you mentioned that because that really refers to, I think, two variants of a hadith al-Qudsi that is a prophetic statement that is voiced as what God said. Like Muhammad the Prophet relates something that God said about himself. And yet this isn't in the Quran. It's like, you know, extra scriptural companion set of hadiths. texts and reports, but it's voiced as what God says about himself. And there are, I think, two versions of this, and I've seen them quoted somewhat differently in our texts. They're very similar, but there's slight points of emphasis. But there's one Hadith Qudsi that is about situating that after creation, after God completed this creation of the universe, that He wrote in his book, meaning, I don't know, it's kind of a curious phrase. So wrote in his book upon himself. So it's curious. It's a doubling of like where this is being written on. But this idea that there's a kind of, I think what's suggested here is something like this. archetypal preserved tablet that is mentioned, the loha al-mahfuz, where kind of the words and the speech of God are written. And basically, it's like, you know, all that has happened, all that will happen, all that is existing is all kind of in this one moment preserved on the tablet, right? And time unfolds, but it's already present in the divine presence on the this preserved tablet, as it's called, lo ha-mafuz. And that kind of idea of the book that God may have is sort of the decision, you might say, of creation and everything that's going to happen. And so it's this universal sort of sense that what is written there is somehow um the divine decree right for existence yeah and he says you know that um that he's that he said in the rahmati so my uh mercy prevails, overcomes my wrath. And in other versions, we have rahmati sabaqat ghadabi. It precedes. my wrath right it comes before and so there's interesting different resonances that that might mean but both suggest priority in both senses of the word right coming before but also being more important having more significance you know over over wrath and i think if if i may i think this is really um

Dr. Mark Applebaum: for some of you who are following along with us in our discussion of the names, you will already have a background in Islam and this will be already very familiar, the language that we're using and the references to Quran and Hadith that we're using. And for those who may not be so familiar, in a way, What we're painting a picture of right now is being, imagine yourself receiving this message that existence itself or creation has both of these elements in it, mercy and wrath. Whatever that means to you, where I'm not going to try to too tightly define, and like I said, I think we're going to be reflecting on this together, Adnan, throughout the names, that creation, meaning the world that you encounter every day, let's just start there, has elements of compassion, tenderness, and wrath in it. And which I imagine anyone, you could relate to this through your personal experience, encountering those things in the world. What we're referencing right now is a tradition, a whole host of traditions in Islam and Sufism. that circle around this idea that the mercy, which is part of the very creation of all this cosmos, exceeds the wrathful aspect no matter how much wrath we encounter. There's this claim. So even if we just hold it in that way, and I'm being a little phenomenological here by framing it this way, This is the picture that we're sort of circling around right now. So this is sort of like a little bit of a slight detour just to sort of frame it for those who may not be as much already in the language that we're using right now. So if you think about the mixture of encountering tenderness, nurturance, compassion in your life, as opposed to wrath, whatever wrath suggests to you. This is part of the territory that we're in about creation right now already, automatically, just by beginning to talk about Ar-Rahman.

Adnan Hussain: Yeah, and I think, you know, maybe one reason why we may be emphasizing it so much, well, obviously it is emphasized in the tradition and in all the texts we're reading and the incidents and frequency of Ar-Rahman is you know, cannot be missed. I mean, it's so obvious. But I think, you know, one other kind of component is just thinking specifically about Islam as a religious tradition and how it's perceived and understood is so often it isn't associated in many people's minds in the West, in our audience, with kind of mercy and love. I mean, it is... you know, often characterized along with, you know, Judaism as a religion of the law. And so it's about the kind of framing and constraining of human behavior in society, according to divine order and will is how this is so often seen. Yeah. And other component that is absolutely fundamental is very often de-emphasized in our perceptions and even you know in muslims uh own sense of the religion and how to practice it it is so much about this uh sense of how do i act properly right and a sense that there's judgment around you know how committed i am to performing the good deeds and the worship that I should do and avoiding, you know, wrong behavior and so on and thinking about it very much in those terms and being very present in one's mind. And of course we will talk about all of these other, um, attributes and names that do, uh, connect with, uh, divine, you know, lordship and, uh, sovereignty and so forth. But to really realize how fundamental and what the implications of that are, of how fundamental Rahma is and particularly Ar-Rahman as a unique descriptor or name for God is in the tradition. That's probably for those who are less familiar with Islam and even for Muslims who would know that intellectually, but to actually recognize and realize how significant um, and present, um, mercy is in every component of existence.

Dr. Mark Applebaum: Yeah. Mercy and, uh, mercy. And, you know, according to the Akbarians, the Akbaris who were talking about mercy and love mercy as love as loving. And, you know, this is maybe a moment to share a very short passage, uh, of Ibn Larabi, because like you said, I mean, even if one is, um, has a deep Islamic background, this particular source might be entirely new to you. And so let me just read briefly. This is Ibn al-Arabi. And in the, among the Akbarians, uh rahman the the dynamic uh outpouring of rahman in creating the uh universe is called the the nafsa rahman so the breath of the merciful this is the reason i'm i'm gonna read this so ibn arabi wrote uh the root of this breath the nafsa rahman is the property of love Love has a movement within the lover, while breath is a movement of yearning, toward the object of love, and through that breathing, enjoyment is experienced. And God has said, as has been reported, I was a treasure, but was not known, so I loved to be known. Through this love, breathing takes place so the breath becomes manifest. So this gives you the flavor of the Rahman as a loving breath pouring out that gives being, according to the Akbaris, bestows being on every existent.

Adnan Hussain: Wow, that is really beautiful and touching. And there's so many resonances also with the... the word nafs, you know, being both the self and the breath. And we had, you know, kata ba'ala nafsihi, you know, nafsihi, you know, written upon his himself. But what exactly? Maybe upon the breath of the merciful, like there may be a reason why that formulation of the breath of the merciful or i think um put it right the merciful breath you know the most merciful breath yeah um Yeah, so that's very hardwired in the unfolding of existence, this this kind of sensibility. But I also think that that's so important. I think we've mentioned that, you know, Kansan Rafi, you know, is a hidden treasure uh hadith could see that statement again that prophetic hadith but it's a description about god's words about um self um about god's self in that um that is in some sense at the root of this whole project of the divine names is that you know there is a treasure treasury to be discovered yeah and um it's not just that we want to know it but god wants to be known right okay so there's a dialectical kind of relationship somehow in this in the fulfillment of the human is is somehow coming to know this treasury that's hidden right of and of course to know oneself is to know one's lord so we know that that's Also, another one of these dicta that really grounds the project of the divine names that we're embarking on is because how can we know? what though that treasure that hidden treasure is, we one way is, of course, to approach them through an understanding and engagement, a reflection, or use of the 99 names that would be, you know, a kind of pathway into this. And that's, I guess you could say one of the rationales for the 99 names as a as a road to travel a spiritual path. Sure.

Dr. Mark Applebaum: Yeah. And I think again, like for the for those those of our listeners who are not familiar with some of our references, this is a famous expression that Ibn Arabi loves to mention. It's disputed in terms of its origins, but for him it's reliable that this hadith could see that meaning an expression in which so to speak god is talking and saying i was a hidden treasure and loved to be known so i created a creation that i might be known some paraphrase but pretty that's fairly close so again the picture that's being painted in that tradition is that all of this that exists has been created for that purpose and out of that loving to be known

Adnan Hussain: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, I'm thinking maybe we should explore a little bit about how some of our commentators may have reflected on this attribute. And of course, we've been referring to the fact that they are very aware of the same verses from the Quran that establish Rahman as a name you can call upon God through, that it has unique characteristics that are like the name Allah. But just thinking of Al Ghazali, he was very conscious that there might be different levels because this idea of mercy could be shared with human characteristics and how to think about that relationship between the two. He began with a kind of definition that suggests that there are two kinds of well, that it's it's responding to need with a kind of desire to fulfill the needs of the other, right, the one who is really in need. And these needs could be almost anything that we could imagine, right? and that there are two kinds. One is perfect rahmah, perfect mercy, which is pouring out goodness or benefaction and support to those in need. And then, which is, you know, rahmah tamah and inclusive or general mercy, which is rahmah amah, which is being this kind of generous loving um uh and empathetic uh um to deserving and undeserving alike right is that it that's not really the crucial question um is whether somebody is deserving or not but having this kind of quality and characteristic um and um It's interesting because he wanted to distinguish between a kind of sense of altruism that might be in an empathetic being. The desire to support and help others and meet their needs might possibly come from the feeling of wanting to relieve oneself of the discomfort of feeling the sadness or empathy for the other. And so to do something good might be, you know, altruistic in this sense, but also be, um, uh, individually implicated, right? You might have a reason, which is a kind of interesting problematic that he set up is that, you know, you might suffer from seeing others suffer and to overcome that suffering, you might help others and that is actually also to help yourself. And that was a very human component. That's the component at which the human exists. And perfect mercy was doing so almost in this objective sort of way that didn't, partly, I think, because he didn't want to theologically incorporate an idea that god feels the pain of others suffering in an emotional sort of way and you know so he was trying to think through that and i think he suggested that there is a kind of like objective kind of perfect this is the perfect mercy is that it fulfills the needs without it being a problem that solves one's own suffering that in seeing and in empathizing with others.

Dr. Mark Applebaum: That's interesting. Yeah. So for Ghazali then, does it seem to you that the reason the second one is more perfect, it's more complete, I guess?

Adnan Hussain: No, the first one was, well, yeah, I probably- How did you put it? But yes, okay.

Dr. Mark Applebaum: you're right the second is more complete well the which the one that is more complete doesn't even have a reference to one's own needs it's just the acting out of uh the principle of principle of it of of mercy of expressing uh you know

Adnan Hussain: the willingness to do good right to be good without fulfilling any need that one has yeah or to relieve yourself of the suffering of witnessing others suffer and by well yeah feeling that suffering so is he critical of of the other of that then or is it just that one is a one is just a more direct manifestation of of unconditioned uh mercy like how does he how do you see him this hierarchizes them yeah other than to say that they are different levels one is appropriate to the divine okay has a share the human has more of a share in it yeah got it okay good so he cuts us a break then so it's okay that it's so so to be human is to be involved huh

Dr. Mark Applebaum: yeah like i mean it's okay for us to feel better about doing good well i mean another way to look at it this is maybe a little more psychological is that is that uh we're humanizing ourself by being human in relation to each other so it goes both ways at the same time so that so this is why i was asking whether he seemed to rank them in a way that was you know skeptic a little took one down a notch but i don't get it that way it sounds really like he's granting we are and when we are nurturing or compassionate toward others we're simultaneously fulfilling something in ourselves in real by by being in relation to the other is what that sounds like does that fit how you're reading him

Adnan Hussain: I think so. I think so. That's interesting. I mean, that's another kind of, uh, development on, on the point that I think he was making. What it made me think about, um, uh, with him was, um, the idea that, um, well, it related to a point I remember from, um, In the Quran, there's a statement, a kind of prayerful statement seeking for forgiveness. And it's situated with Adam and Hawa at the moment when they've transgressed the prohibition from eating from certain fruit from a certain tree. And they're ashamed of this and they seek forgiveness and turn to God. as an example of pure tawbah, turning towards God in seeking forgiveness. And they say, Oh God, we have oppressed or wronged or harmed ourselves. And if you don't forgive us, then we will be the losers, right?

Speaker 3: So there's some...

Adnan Hussain: A thing where the transgression is not against God as like, okay, in point of fact, it was the prohibition was made, but the actual reality of the experience of it for them as they express is that we have done something terrible to ourselves that's spiritually damaging and dangerous. We need to depend on God's mercy or on this kind of characteristic of mercy in order to repair that spiritual damage and harm. Otherwise, we will be in a state of loss, like loss. And that's also another kind of component of this, it seems to me, is that there's a lot of discussion about The absence, maybe this is somewhere we could go about certain approaches psychologically to spiritual traditions, and in fact, specifically the divine names, the idea that the absence, you know, the soul is absent in this, this worldly condition, feels the absence of the divine, and therefore suffers, right, all of these issues or problems as a result. Yeah. But that's not necessarily the only way to kind of think about this, um, relationship that it's, it's also absence from oneself. That's right.

Dr. Mark Applebaum: It's both. And I think like, yeah, I think, um, the, the psychological principle, if you want to, if we want to put it that way in there could be expressed like, um, If I withhold myself, if I'm locked inside of myself, if I withhold myself from relating in a compassionate way toward you, If I act just selfishly, impulsively, whatever it may be, I'm wronging both of us at the same time, actually. I mean, between us and our relationship, I'm doing you a disservice, right? I'm withholding something that in good faith as a human being, I ought to be there for you in that way. And I'm also... how to put this, like damaging myself by reducing what I am as a human being. And in both of those things, I'm cutting myself off from my source. So if we want to think about the third in this relationship as the real or God or being, then if I'm locked into selfishly into myself, I'm cutting myself off from you and my actions in the world. I'm making myself more cut off as a human being and I'm cutting myself off from transcendence and from my source that way at the same time. So it's anti-relationship in both directions at the same time, you could say.

Adnan Hussain: Well, yeah, this is really resonant for me of the fact that if we go back into the etymology of rahm and the root word is that a number of variants or derivatives of that root even in this kind of first form not like elaborated form but you know the basic root is about propinquity, connection, and relation. And it's almost used as a, obviously because of the idea that those from the womb have, you know, connection and relation to one another in their origin, in their birth. And of course, that is a broader possibility and abstraction of connection and relation being established in the more cosmic kind of sense that we had been speaking about. So when you were talking about those sorts of relation, it seemed to come back to the very root of the name.

Dr. Mark Applebaum: Yeah. Yeah. Great. Yeah. Closeness and distance. This is right there. And it's it's that language is throughout the Koran as well as Sufism, as we know, like, am I distant? Am I cut off or am I seeking proximity? Closeness, you know.

Adnan Hussain: Right, right. Well, that itself also reminds me of another passage in this discussion that Al-Ghazali has in his book on the commentary on the meaning of the names, which was because he was distinguishing between these different levels or ways in which there might be an exclusively divine sort of meaning of Ar-Rahman and where the human share in the name might come. And because he associates Ar-Rahman and Ar-Rahim, which we haven't discussed and we will discuss, but it's so intimately connected, he actually combines his Discussion there together because they come from the same root word and also so closely connected in the formula at the beginning of all of the every passage or every chapter of the Koran, but one. which has the same phrase later in the chapter, but just not at the beginning, begins with Bismillah ar-Rahman ar-Rahim in the name of God, the most merciful, the most compassionate or the most beneficent, the most merciful. um but you know very often when they're translated into english they're we find that they're almost synonyms and some people prefer one to be the merciful and one to be you know the beneficent but they're very close in meanings yeah he combines his discussion of the two um but he does have an interesting passage where he tries to find what is the human share in this very uniquely divine, Ar-Rahman kind of name. And he says that... Is that the human share in the name Ar-Rahman is that the worshiper or servant or the human, right, show mercy to the ghafileen, the neglectful or the heedless, or we could even say forgetful, those who are in a state of... lack of remembrance, lack of that real divine connection. And as a result, they behave or act in ways that are outside of that connection and that you should have mercy, show mercy to them. by trying to call them back through exhortation, turn them back towards God by way of gentleness and not by violence or force, but by way of gentleness, you should try and call them back and look at them with the eye of mercy and not of contempt. Nice. Because you have to understand and think about every insubordination to God's will or thing that puts you in conflict with the righteous sort of behavior in this world is your own misfortune. It is a misfortune for you. You should feel that these are somebody's insubordination, as it were, to God's will is a misfortune to you. And you should spare no effort to eliminate that to the extent that the person can be, you know, that your concern is that they might be exposed to God's wrath. Right. And but even better. removed from proximity to him so just meant about proximity because that is the truly awful state is to be far and the actions that you do if they don't bring you towards god but in fact actually take you away from god that actually just as adam and eve you know recognized in that quranic verse is a harm to themselves and so the merciful among the human beings, the Ar-Rahman characteristic is when they take on that feeling of care and solicitude and mercy for others, that they not be deprived of nearness to God. And that's actually a kind of divine, you could say, The reason why that's I think the way he talks about it is because that's sort of the place that the divine being or essence would have to the human. And so you by being merciful in this way are in some sense uh creating and inhabiting a as a human being the divine role of mercy to others in creation by being concerned about their relationship to god i.e their relationship to really fulfilling their spiritual i thought that was just fascinating yeah um he would think about it in in in that way um that the most transcendent, like, well, like we had when we were discussing the divine name Allah, I was quite surprised in our last episode when investigating this, that Al-Ghazali would actually talk about and discuss as a goal or as a realizable process to Allah, that is, know taking on in some sense the divine uh essence right like to try and embody in in a way um you know the meaning of this most unique divine name that there still was a human relationship to that that wasn't that got beyond the the divide between the human and the divine in some respect and it seems again here he's worked through some way of trying to uh explore how the human being can take on a rahman and yes it is by having the care and solicitude of the human's relationship to the divine and trying to be merciful

Dr. Mark Applebaum: concerned about others that they also have this proper relationship it's i think that's yeah yeah his sense of that yeah i mean if we take seriously the idea of um in in the abrahamic traditions of the human being being created in a divine form in the surah uh then by getting into the names as we're starting to do with Rahman, somehow fulfilling as best we can that attribute would have to be essential to the greater completion of this life that we've got with each other. Right? Because it's part of our template. I mean, if we take that, if we take this idea of being, carrying a kind of a divine form, the Rahman, especially starting, you know, exactly where we did with that word and all the intimate meanings of being given birth to and Uh, everything that entails about the fragility of the human being and the need for nurturance and the need for mutuality. Well, we're right in the middle of basic ingredients for any kind of functional community. Right away. So, yeah, I, I, I think, uh, nice to hear about a Ghazali in the, in that light. Yeah.

Adnan Hussain: Yeah, well, I mean, it does raise a question, though. So I don't know if now is the time to come to this. We alluded to the need to think about... Well, to think about the tension of our lived experience with this idea of cosmic and divine mercy. Al-Ghazali does define mercy as when you have the capacity to relieve the pain, the suffering, and fulfill the need of somebody in need. to do so as mercy, right? So if this isn't happening, how to understand this? So interesting.

Dr. Mark Applebaum: And most of the time it's not. I mean, let's be honest. I think the problem of evil is I think what we're sneaking up on here, among other things, at least.

Adnan Hussain: Yes, or, you know, that's one way of framing it. Another way is how to explain the place of suffering in the world of mercy, right? If the if God is merciful, why? Would bad things happen to good people? Why is there suffering in the world by the innocents? I mean, this is such an obvious concern and question that we have to be asking at this moment. And interestingly, it was also, of course, one that theologians typically asked as well as a problem. But I found the way it was discussed actually in Al-Ghazali very interesting. apposite to how in trying to think about this question of Ar-Rahman, I kept feeling like, well, where is Ar-Rahman? I mean, right now when I'm looking at what's happening in the world, it just seems so hard to see it as hardwired into the very nature of the universe. It seems like the nature of the universe is far more painful, brutal. There's evil. I mean, it just reminds me I mean, it reminds me of the like verse actually in Surah Baqarah again, you know, going back to this, I think this Adamic, you know, like because we're talking about something core to the human. So yeah.

Dr. Mark Applebaum: What is it about these human beings? That's right. So-called human beings. Let's put it that way.

Adnan Hussain: Is that, you know, yeah, exactly. I mean, You know, this famous verse in the second chapter of the, you know, the Quran, the cow, you know, that God says, you know, remember, actually, remember when your Lord said to the angels, I'm going to place a Khalifa, a steward, a deputy, you know, yeah somebody in a certain kind of authority on earth and the angels this when announced that this was the case the angels reply and respond they say will you place in it someone who will spread corruption in the earth and shed blood while we glorify you and your praise you and proclaim your holiness, you know? Um, and I often, I've talked about this verse in the past and I often think that maybe the angels were actually quite right about us. I mean, God's response to them is I know what you do not know, or I know what you know, not right. Um, and, But interestingly, so there was some purpose, right? There's some purpose that is to be fulfilled by the human being in this world, even though, in fact, actually, what we've done is spread actually quite a lot of corruption, pollution, chaos, disorder, shed blood. I mean, you know. And actually, God doesn't deny that the angels are what the angels say will do. Just says, I know what you know not. And it's been a mystery to me always. What is it that one could know about us when we seem to lack the basic sense of mercy?

Dr. Mark Applebaum: Yeah. Yeah. Well, in the in the I think you're you're you're right to point out that in the Quranic story, God does not respond by saying, no, the humans aren't going to do that. That's not the response at all. Nor are we told what it is that he knows that we that the angels don't know. It's left open. Right. Right. And I think that, you know, the at least. There's this element, I think, both in Quran and in the Torah that differently, there's quite a dark picture that's embedded in both of those, both stories. I went back to Genesis before we met today to find the line that's sometimes translated, this is right before the flood, right? uh where in in genesis again to paraphrase god's concludes that evil is the imagination of men's hearts and in fact even goes further i think in genesis god regrets having created the human being according to that version so there's is a different story but both both allow for uh there there being something at least uh heavy and i would say tragic even about what's the situation likely to be with these people meaning less yeah Yeah.

Adnan Hussain: Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Mark Applebaum: I mean, so lest lest anyone who's following this, we've been in some really lovely places. Right. But but this is right. But this is not to convey that I'm tempted to bring Freud into this, but that would that that would be a complete left turn it not to convey that because we're speaking in a in a genuinely oh, I'll say even reverential way about this tradition that we're inhabiting here, that we have a rosy picture. Yeah. No. Right.

Adnan Hussain: That's not where we're coming from. Yeah. Right. Because, I mean, this is the sort of time and experience, and you could choose almost any period of human history and say that this would be the predominant experience, is that life is hard, there's suffering, there's pain, there's evil. um there's you know injustice and oppression um you know but of course what we're experiencing and feeling you know right now in a very chaotic world um the Gaza genocide, you know, there's been so many times where I have thought, you know, where's the mercy? You know, can't there be some relief? And while we're right now in a moment at the time of recording, when there's been a putative, you know, ceasefire, we know that the suffering has really hasn't ended. the situation continues to be really terrible and awful. And it's so difficult to really see the mercy in the horrific actions, um, that the angels rightly condemned us for playing out in front of us and not, you know, even in a hidden way that, um, we're confronted by it, um, all the time, very directly, cannot be ignored or denied if you're at all open to what people are really experiencing in this world and in this life. And one component that I think is so fascinating to me in this is that from my distant position, feeling that empathy and that pain and wishing for mercy, feeling whatever I could do, I would for, you know, to help ease the suffering of others in such a way that sometimes it profoundly pushes you to question how could this, you know, how could Rahman really be at the center of the universe when it's like this? And yet, you know, to see the Palestinians themselves be so firmly committed in many ways to faith, at least, you know, I know there's Christians as well as Muslims. And I think, you know, their Christian faith has been very important. I've been very, you know, impressed with the analysis and the kind of spiritual fortitude of somebody like Pastor Munder Ishaq, who's sermons and his comments have been so profound, insightful and inspirational. But I'm very familiar also with, of course, the majority, especially in Gaza, of, you know, people who call upon, you know, that has been a law on animal wakil, you know, that their, their hands, you know, that it's, it's in God's hands, and this kind of patient, I don't see them despairing. I don't see them saying, you know, where is god's mercy uh i think maybe they might say where are our allies our fellow you know muslims but they don't feel that god has abandoned them and to me this is a total mystery how one could go through such horrific suffering and feel like no you've not been abandoned by god god is still merciful um and it just reminds me like you know this passage here that al-ghazali you typically In each of his discussions of the names, he has this three part structure where he discusses the name in its kind of definitional sense, then as implications, like subtle points, basically implications of the discussion about the definition. And then, you know, moves to another section called, you know, the benefit or lesson that one should take. So kind of now make it more personal for the seeker. Like how would one really benefit? uh kind of benefit from the discussion that one is that that he's had about the divine name uh and then you know counsel uh tanbi counsel how really then to act you know in light of it right yeah yeah he's got structure typically in this chapter he adds another um chapter where he says a question and its answer because the question comes to everyone's mind it seems and he's aware of this right you might say what does it mean for him the most high to be merciful ar-rahman and to be uh the most merciful of those who are merciful which is a quranic phrase so the most merciful of those who are merciful For one who is merciful does not see people afflicted or injured, tormented or sick without hastening to remove that condition when he can do so. Right. and to remove every harm, even though he leaves his servants to be tried by disasters and hardships while the world is overflowing with disease, calamities and tribulations. Yet he is able to remove them all. You know, so it really leaves the question, how can he be merciful?

Dr. Mark Applebaum: Right.

Adnan Hussain: In the face of all of this with the capacity you know, theologically speaking, um, the, you know, all powerful, the create the capacity. So in what sense can we understand mercy as operable in the scenario, which is the question we have.

Dr. Mark Applebaum: Yeah. Both with respect to natural. So, so to speak, natural evils like disease or, uh, uh, moral evils, ethical evils. Yeah, that's right.

Adnan Hussain: Yeah.

Dr. Mark Applebaum: Yeah. Where does he go with that?

Adnan Hussain: Well, OK, this is what's kind of interesting is that, you know, this ends up being quite a long discussion on the problem of theodicy here. But in the frame of the question of mercy and the merciful, you know, he tries to argue that, you know, that there is no evil in existence which does not contain some good within it and were that evil to be eliminated the good within it would be nullified and the final result could be an evil worse than the evil containing the good and so the example that he gives is the case of gangrenous wound in the hand, like amputation of hand is pretty awful. It seems pretty evil to the one who's suffering it. But if it's done in order to preserve the body because the gangrene would then spread, kill the whole person, then it is an evil with a good in it that it is designed to achieve health may not be the optimal situation. But if you have a gangrenous hand, You'd rather be amputated so that you remain alive. So if the principle is health and the kind of suffering act of amputation is you know, essentially secondary to the goal of achieving health, whole body, then it can be acceptable and understood. And so he uses that as a kind of, you know, medical exam, you know, example to try and distinguish, you know, between what he says and then he applies actually the, the dictum, my mercy precedes my anger, you know, is that, yeah. you know if what is intended for its own sake what is intended for its own sake takes precedent over that which is intended for the sake of the other so in its own sake is health and in this case you know amputation and the pain that it caused is secondarily undertaken you know for the sake of the other so it's secondary the main principle here is still that i get it observe health

Dr. Mark Applebaum: Yeah, I think it's, does he go on to an interpersonal example? Because I think this is much, we're talking about social injustice or the brutality you were mentioning earlier. I think it's harder. I think this is much, much harder to square.

Adnan Hussain: It is.

Dr. Mark Applebaum: I mean, from one perspective, you know, if we go back to the angels critique, it's like, If he knows something that they don't know, let's say, well, it's still just us down here from one perspective. The freedom to repeatedly make terrible choices as masses of human beings, as human communities. Yeah, that seems to be what's... You know, we would have to frame that as what it makes possible as a human being who is capable of such repeated mistakes, travesties, inhumanities, that there's something growing in the midst of that, at least potentially, that mirrors mirrors the divine and that by, in those probably rare cases where we actualize that rahmah in ourselves more than not, that we both humanize and kind of, so to speak, deify ourselves, take more steps in that direction. But it's not a good bet to go back to the angels in the verse. It's definitely not a winning wager as far as it seems to me to bank on it.

Adnan Hussain: Yeah. I mean, that's history. I mean, history falsifies history. Yeah, opportunities to see the good in history, but I think you have to, you know, recognize that. Despite all other ways in which we frame the human condition as having encompassed progress, right? It's like sort of sense that human progress, right, has happened over history. And I think all they really mean is that it's there's been technological progress, because even in the age The age of democracy, the age of human rights, you know, all of these universalist sorts of principles and ideals that were supposed to mark kind of human, cultural, philosophical, and moral development, right? I mean, you know, we still see that, in fact, the modern age is the one that has been most ruthlessly barbaric, violent, and and destructive of both the world and the environment and of other human beings i mean every time that people talk about the medieval a period that i study it's usually characterized as violent and chaotic and it is nothing like the level of barbarity of our own so-called enlightened age so this kind of idea of our progress i mean on the one hand a very Committed to the idea that we have to be striving towards with your knowledge, with greater capacities and capabilities of meeting the needs of people, that there should be this ideal of mercy, of rahmah, of achieving those. And yet we have created this. so much more suffering. It's so interesting because, again, I mean, this is really trespassing upon Rahim in some ways. But because he combines his discussion, it's a very interesting way of trying to think of the two together um uh it does different inflections of this question of compassion and mercy as divine capacities divine names and how the human has a share in it it says some very interesting things that i wish we would take on board now i mean this is quite stunning yeah to me he says um the humans share the worshippers share in a rahim the um you know maybe we could say the most compassionate um is how one way to translate that divine name lies in not turning away from any needy persons without meeting their needs to the extent of one's ability nor turning from any poor in one's neighborhood or town without committing himself to them and ridding them of their poverty either from his own wealth or reputation, which is an odd sort of notion, but either from his own wealth or reputation or by interceding on their behalf with another. And if he is unable to do all that, he should assist them by prayer or by showing grief on account of their need in sympathy and love towards them as though he were thereby sharing in their misfortune. and their need yeah i mean this is a social vision of that emotional quality yeah and to think that this is written you know in the 11th century uh of the common uh era uh 11th or 12th century i can't remember the exact date of it but yeah um we're still nowhere near this kind of ideal you know even though we actually have the capacity in ways that were unfathomable at the time al-Ghazali was writing.

Dr. Mark Applebaum: Yeah, but we're not much further from our pre-human ancestors. I was going to say monkeys. I mean, you know, we're not much further evolutionarily. We're a fraction of a second in the span of history further along.

Adnan Hussain: That's one kind of way people look at it. But I mean, I think one issue is that culture is supposed to be um a major factor in overcoming the pure biological right like culture is supposed to um be something that distinguishes human social development you know and yet despite the fact that culture has changed a lot in terms of the values social structures are very different from they were say in you know Mediterranean societies a thousand years ago, you would think that with all those differences that are kind of the ground, the social and cultural ground upon which unique features of human experience would develop, that we would be in a very different sort of place.

Dr. Mark Applebaum: Well, you know, Yeah. I mean, you're tempting me to bring Freud in. Again, I'm telling you, it's civilization and its discontents. It's such a dark and funny, but dark view. But I think I mean, someone who was with us at the beginning of this hour and with the nafs al-Rahman, the outpouring of the breath of the merciful, and has followed us to this point in the conversation, which is touching on real, I'm just gonna say despair about the human condition, at least the availability to be in touch with despair about the human condition around us. might be surprised at like how we got here or was that what you guys were here to talk about and i would say yes because the range i think what we're i think what you and i are are um trying to model is the interrelatedness of all these levels of of being and relating to the the various traditions that we inhabit together um i don't feel like we can leave any of it out and uh uh so um That's sort of a word to anyone who may feel like, how did you get here?

Adnan Hussain: You get here from mercy. Right. Well, it's the perceived absence of it. The evident absence of it. And you might have some further thoughts about... how to think about that on like the more psychological level as well. But at this theological level, Al-Ghazali really ends on a very optimistic, I mean, he's quite optimistic. I mean, he thinks the majority may not really understand. And you always have that kind of elite kind of sensibility that not everyone is going to, you know. this isn't this this is another uh third rail i suppose is the it is allows him to sort of conclude on a positive note because he says i mean he says basically um you know you have to question your reasoning here um uh that there's two things that you could um Consider if a particular evil occurs to you without your seeing any good beneath it, you should think it possible that a particular good be achieved without its being contained in evil. You should query whether your reasoning might not be deficient in each of these two trains of thought. And he goes through both of them and one of them. you know, after kind of discussing them, he says, you so accuse your reasoning in both these ways and never doubt that he is the most merciful of the merciful or that his mercy takes precedence over his anger. And never doubt that the one who intends evil for the sake of evil and not for the sake of good is undeserving of the name of mercy. Beneath all this lies a secret whose divulgence the sharh, know that is the revealed law the shara prohibits so be content with prayer and don't do not expect that it will be disclosed right you may not know so it's again the same you know god knows what you know not but you should really have faith if you're really following this path you will have faith that god really still is the merciful, the most merciful. You have been instructed by signs and given directions. So if you're worthy of them, then ponder them. And he quotes a line of poetry. You would have been heard were you calling a living person, but there is no life in the one you call, meaning that the majority won't necessarily understand this. This is the condition of the majority. But I do not think that you, my brother, speaking to the person who requested the book, you know. Yeah. Yeah, no, it is intended, lack the capacity to ponder the secret of God, great and glorious in the divine decree.

Dr. Mark Applebaum: So all these hints and notices are unnecessary for you. I think like, I think there's so many big questions that we're touching on, and we'll probably continue to circle around as we continue with the names, Adnan. One of them is about that kind of counsel, which in a medieval text makes complete sense to me that that would be the case. Just trust, you know, have faith. And I'm not being dismissive of that, but I think because it was, I think to be maybe more generous, It was trust, but also reflect. So, I mean, reflection is certainly not lacking from that call. But, you know, for someone, and there may well be people who are following along with us here for whom that's the right framework, like the framework of Iman or the framework of trusting deeply. uh, is, is already by itself sufficient, uh, as an answer for others, the trust would be okay. Trust, but trust and reflect and look and see like what, what, what do you, you know, and, and somewhere we could go and maybe we may end up continuing with the same name, um, is reflecting on the wide range, the continuum of suffering and evils that any one of us could experience. Because one could ask the question, you know, we've gone to some kind of the more, we've alluded to the extremes but we could also ask questions about the relative evils or the relative suffering that any one of us would have undergone and ask the question about those is there mercy in it and I think that's worth maybe another whole conversation because I think that there's so it's so rich both it's it's rich theologically it's also rich just purely existentially and phenomenologically to ask that question about suffering uh, or being the victim of, of real evil. Uh, I think that, I think it's worth like continuing the conversation in that direction as well. Um, I guess what I'm getting at is that I think like, um, I would not be satisfied with either a purely theological prescription for this or a sort of, I don't know, a dryly psychological or philosophical one that still didn't speak to lived experience in a way that was open to transcendence. But I think what I feel like we've broken through to in this conversation is now we're getting into the names that really touch directly on human experience and the lack of experience of certain things or the or the the almost total absence of certain things in everyday life so i think we're uh we're really getting into rich territory now i i agree i mean i think

Adnan Hussain: we raised sort of the big ultimate and extreme as you're pointing out conditions, but there's so much textured experience to explore between the kind of extreme or in this kind of ultimate sorts of cases. But I think I would be very interested to consider how you know, how one might actually, um, see mercy, um, in, you know, in, in more, uh, accountable sort of daily sorts of experiences as well right you know I mean it's possible to ask these ultimate questions when you're dealing with cataclysmic tragedy and that's you know useful for reflecting on ultimate concerns but also we have to think about You know, how daily life, it's just, you know, right now, daily life, difficult to separate from cataclysm and chaos around. But, you know, the way we experience these things is still through the mediated experience. a way in which we we live right so we don't live the um kind of abstract um news and and so forth all the time like there might be parts of our consciousness that will engage that but at other times we're still sort of struggling it seems to me to really see where in oneself you would find that quality

Dr. Mark Applebaum: of mercy operating in an effective sort of way well right and i mean i think the way a phenomenological psychologist might ask this question would be something like um have you ever had an experience uh of of being um shaken to the core in a tear in what was a terrible way uh, physically, emotionally and whatever, whatever the way that way is that later you were grateful for that, that later you experienced as, um, as something that gave you something precious.

Adnan Hussain: Right.

Dr. Mark Applebaum: I mean, that would be one way of framing the question, certainly not the only way, but that's one way to invite you and me and our listeners to sort of think about what we're raising about suffering and mercy.

Adnan Hussain: Yeah. And I think maybe all the first person personally. That's right. Yeah. And also just to connect it to Tlemceni as we maybe conclude our conversation is also with his kind of sense of expansion and contraction, right? That's just these natural cycles that we go through periods of real bestowal of, you know, generous and mercy, you know, to others, and then others of this kind of contraction where you're really left with yourself in a spirit of loss or lack or

Dr. Mark Applebaum: absence and how to deal with that and remember that there is this cycle somehow absolutely absolutely and i think um you know and and an islamic reference to this would be um uh siratine for example oh And we might come to that next time. But, I mean, the idea of the human being being created in a great or the best form.

Adnan Hussain: Right.

Dr. Mark Applebaum: And being reduced.

Adnan Hussain: And then falling to the lowest of the low.

Dr. Mark Applebaum: yeah and this is there i'm just sort of sticking with the abrahamic traditions today but it's there that's their one way or another in all all three of the abrahamic traditions this idea of uh just how how low you know we what we are like you know what are we

Adnan Hussain: Well, yeah, I think there will be a chance to come back and circle back to some of these in our next episode that might be a Rahman and Rahim companion, you know, as we move forward into Rahim, but still thinking about the same topics and issues because they're very closely connected while exploring some of the specificities of Rahim, Ar-Rahim. I think that will be useful. Yeah, that will be useful.

Dr. Mark Applebaum: I would find it, and I have already found it so useful when viewers share comments about where this is landing or not landing. I think we always appreciate that. Obviously, we have a very particular sort of mission that's in doing this that doesn't capture every possible way of approaching the topic. We could be much more systematic than we are, but I think this is a very existential and personal dialogue at the same time. So let us know how we're reaching you or not.

Adnan Hussain: Yeah, that would be helpful to know. I mean, we do appreciate all of the comments, engagement and interaction. So do put them in comments in the YouTube video. I don't know if you can leave comments on a podcast. I think not with the audio form, but you can in YouTube and you check them and read them and we appreciate them so much. And you know, listeners and watchers, it's a journey. I hope you're finding your pathway with us and it won't always coincide and be exactly the same path. And in fact, actually we're going with the flow. The structure we have is we'll talk about the names. But beyond that, a lot of productive new things happen experientially, which is the approach we wanna take in general to thinking about the names, but also in our own elaboration and discussion of them together with you so we hope to hear from you and we look forward to speaking with you for you together mark and i in our next episode next month but until then we wish you peace with justice and solidarity salaam everyone