The Gaza Flotilla Massacre (2010) (Revised Episode)

Sherif Fam: It is Sunday, May 30th, 2010. And today we have a special program. We are very pleased and honored to have as our guest Greta Berlin. Greta Berlin.

Greta Berlin: Well, thank you. First of all, I'd say thank you for joining— for asking me to be on the program. Thanks so much.

Sherif Fam: You're very welcome. Greta is a member and major organizer —with the Freedom Gaza Movement, as well as a member and major organizer of the Freedom Flotilla, which is sailing toward Gaza as we speak. The Israeli government has said that it will do everything to prevent the flotilla from reaching Gaza, including violence.

Greta Berlin: Right.

Sherif Fam: And as we say here, the— as of now, anyway, there is no indication that the Israelis have boarded the ships. So, Greta, good morning, and thank you for being our guest.

Greta Berlin: Good morning.

Sherif Fam: Could you tell us what is going on right now?

Greta Berlin: Certainly. First of all, I'm in Cyprus. So I don't know how many hours ahead of you I am, maybe 6. And we've just gotten confirmation from some of the organizers who are on the flotilla that they are planning on leaving the— they're in international waters right off the coast of Lebanon.

Sherif Fam: Right.

Greta Berlin: So they're not anywhere close to Gaza yet. They have— we have spent the last 2 or 3 days trying to get all the boats to get to the flotilla. And we have 6 that are going. And they should be leaving shortly. They should be leaving sometime within the next hour.

Sherif Fam: Oh.

Greta Berlin: And they are going— it'll take them 19 hours. It'll take them 19 hours to get from off the coast of Lebanon down to what we call the 30-mile line that Israel draws in the sand, or I guess in the sea, where they are threatening to stop us. And so that will take about 19 hours to get there, because the slowest boat is 8 miles an hour, and we all have to go at the slowest pace.

Sherif Fam: Yes, yes, I see. You've had some difficulties with the boats. There are 2 boats, I think, that have had mechanical problems of a suspicious nature. Do you suspect that there was some sabotage?

Greta Berlin: Israel made it very clear a couple of weeks ago that they would do everything that they could to stop the boats before we even got organized as a flotilla. And they said that they would try to stop them individually. Well, of course, we all thought, as organizers, that they might want to do something violent to the boats. But they didn't really need to do that. They can mess with the steering column. They can put a small nick in the hydraulic fuel. All of those things will take the boats Out of commission. Our 2 boats— we've got 2, Challenger 1 and Challenger 2— ended up getting mechanical problems at exactly the same time. And that was 3:30 in the afternoon on Friday afternoon, while we were off the coast of Cyprus. And I find that suspicious, for sure. I mean, we're not going to say anything until we have a good analysis of what has happened to both of them. Challenger 1, which is the larger of the 2 boats— it's a yacht.

Sherif Fam: Uh-huh.

Greta Berlin: And we asked the flotilla to please wait for one more day so that we could load our passengers onto that boat and then take it out to the flotilla. And that's why the flotilla has been delayed for a day.

Sherif Fam: Right.

Greta Berlin: They waited for us. And we got there at about 2:00, 2:30 in the morning this morning. So they waited. I mean, they were wonderful. They waited for us and said, yes, we will wait. It's more important that we all go to Gaza together. And I think that they're probably going to begin I see.

Sherif Fam: And when you were in Cyprus, what happened to the Cypriot promise to let you use their ports and to send the ships out?

Greta Berlin: We didn't have a promise from the Cypriot government to use their ports. In fact, we made it very clear that we would not They've been very good to us when we left the last 8 times, and we have left from the Cypriot ports. I know that they are under pressure from the United States, and they're under pressure from Israel. And so, last year they said, you can never leave from our ports again. And we said, fine, we would honor that commitment. We had a Greek partner who came to Cyprus about 2 months ago, and he said, if we can make an arrangement to load the members of parliament and the high-profile people in Cyprus Because it's essentially only about 18 or 19 hours from Cyprus to Gaza.

Sherif Fam: Yeah.

Greta Berlin: And we do it under the radar. We don't let anybody know. We don't let the media know that we are here. Will that be okay? And the Cyprus government said, yes, but you cannot bring your boats into port. We said, okay, we will hire a boat, we will put everybody on board, and we will take them past the 12-mile limit— that's the territorial waters— and we will board the boats outside The territorial waters of Cyprus. When we got ready to do that on Friday—

Sherif Fam: Yes.

Greta Berlin: The police and the navy, or whatever it is that Cyprus has, stopped us. They stopped us Friday morning. And I don't— we don't know whether it was a setup. Cyprus has very clearly said in their news media that we damaged their relationship with Israel. They keep saying that they did not bow to Israeli pressure. Yeah, but then they still didn't let us go. So we've had to spend the last 2 days trying to find a way to get our passengers onboard the boat and then onto the flotilla, which we have done.

Sherif Fam: Hmm. Well, that's quite an achievement. But they also said that they were struggling for their own survival?

Greta Berlin: Yes, that's what they say. That's what— well, it's quite interesting that they, for 2 years, they said that we We could leave from this port. And then they suddenly said they are struggling for their survival. I know— I live in Europe, so I know that Europe is struggling economically. But I think what really happened is that Israel made a deal with the Greek Cypriots, and they said, we have 2 charter boats that come to northern part of Cyprus twice a week. And so, instead of going to the northern part of Cyprus— that's the Turkish side— we will make a deal with you that if you don't let these boats go out, We will send our charter boats to Cyprus and send them to Greek Cyprus. And that's exactly what has happened over the last year.

Sherif Fam: Huh.

Greta Berlin: That's exactly what has happened. So I would say that principles have given way to economics, and they have decided that we're not worth it, in which case the Palestine— they've also decided that somehow the fight for justice for Palestine isn't worth it either.

Sherif Fam: Yes, it's always put on hold.

Greta Berlin: Yes, always. 62 years it's been put on hold. You know, I mean, my entire lifetime it's been put on hold, and the lifetime of almost anybody who's been born after World War II. And I think that— I understand that Cyprus has difficulties, and I understand that they tried to figure out how to prevent us from going. And we abided by that. The thing that made us so angry is that we abided by their rule. We said, OK, we will follow your law, even if we think it's kind of stupid that we can't leave. But they had no right to stop a boat that was loaded with people, that was going outside of their limits, because once countries are going to start doing that, then what's to prevent any country from telling anybody, you can't get on a boat? Oh, gee, you can't go sailing today, because you're going to go past our territorial limits. This is a horrible precedent. And unfortunately, the precedent has been established by Cyprus.

Sherif Fam: Of all places.

Greta Berlin: It's an island. You know, it's occupied. The reason that Cyprus has been so helpful to us is because they know what occupation is. They've been occupied on the northern side. I don't know whether they're angry at us because one of our partners is Turkish. I mean, you know, the Turkish—

Sherif Fam: Yes.

Greta Berlin: The Turkish organization IHH is one of our partners. But one of our other partners is Greek. So if the Greeks and the Turks can get along enough to put boats into a flotilla to send to Palestine, then the Cypriots should have gone along with it as well.

Sherif Fam: Sure, sure, sure, sure. So could you tell us a little bit about what the boats are carrying?

Greta Berlin: Well, we've got 6 boats now. One of our boats was completely disabled. One of the things I want everybody in the United States to hear, because I think this is really important for us as Americans— we are always the last person to board the ship, so to speak, and nobody knows very much about what really happens in Palestine. But our 2 boats, our 2 yachts, are flagged with the American flag. We're flying— we're sailing Challenger I.

Sherif Fam: Right.

Greta Berlin: Into the port of Gaza with an American flag. It's going to be fascinating to find out what the United States is going to do about this. What are they going to do about this? These are flagged from the country of the— of the country that enables Israel to do this. So, are they going to do anything if the Israelis attack American citizens and other citizens and a boat that is flagged in the United States?

Sherif Fam: Yes.

Greta Berlin: It's going to be very interesting. And we did that on purpose, of course. I mean, we try very carefully to think strategically what's the best thing to do. So, we now have 6 boats that are going. On those 6 boats is about 10,000 tons of supplies that are going to go to Gaza. Those supplies are all of the supplies that Israel refuses to allow into Gaza. I know Israel gets out their little PR mechanism, and they spin their little wheels, and they say, well, the people in Gaza don't want to have food. We don't need this, because we bring all these trucks of supplies in. But the only supplies that Israel allows into Gaza are 81 items, and they're mostly food items and some medicines. Gaza needs supplies to rebuild. And Israel devastated the economy of Gaza back in 2009, in January of 2009. We're taking in cement and water for toilets.

Sherif Fam: Yeah.

Greta Berlin: Water purification systems and prefab homes, 20 tons of paper. Israel doesn't even allow paper into Gaza, so that nobody can print their schoolbooks. We're taking in 2 tons of athletic equipment, because that's not allowed into Gaza either. So we have footballs and basketballs and football jerseys, all donated by the people in Ireland for the people of Gaza.

Sherif Fam: Right.

Greta Berlin: None of these supplies, none of these items have ever been allowed into Gaza since 2007. And that's what we're trying to do. We are not trying to deliver humanitarian supplies. We're trying to break the blockade.

Sherif Fam: And that is an important difference.

Greta Berlin: It's an important difference, because what Israel will say, and has been saying, is, well, you bring all of the supplies into Ashdod, and we'll deliver them. No, they won't. And why should they have to? Why should the people of Gaza have to depend on Israel and Egypt for a handout? The people of Gaza are perfectly capable of taking care of themselves if given the opportunity, just like any of us. They want the opportunity to rebuild their lives and to go to school and to be able to leave and come back to their country. They want the ability to be able to fish and to farm. And all of those things have been taken away from them by Israel. And so—

Sherif Fam: Right.

Greta Berlin: We say over and over again that we are not on a humanitarian mission. We are on a mission to break the siege of Gaza.

Sherif Fam: Quite so. The American government, unfortunately, will not do anything. If Israel should decide to attack the boats carrying the American flag and attack the passengers, it will not do anything. The government does not do anything for its people, especially in Israel.

Greta Berlin: Well, that's true, but governments never do anything. I mean, if governments were doing what they were supposed to be doing, we wouldn't have to do this at all. At the end of Operation Cast Lead, governments around the world pledged $4.5 billion to rebuild Gaza. Not one penny of that has gotten into Gaza. So, when governments fail, it's really up to us, the people, the civilians, to do something about it, because actually we are the government. I mean, we need to remember to take that back. We need to take the governments back and make them about the people to begin with, because governments are bureaucracies that aren't going to do anything to shake up anything. So this is why this is a civilian movement. You're absolutely right. The government of the United States isn't going to do anything. But that doesn't prevent the people of the United States from being outraged over what is happening to the Palestinians.

Sherif Fam: Right.

Greta Berlin: This is beginning to happen. People are finally beginning to recognize what Israel has been doing to the Palestinians since 1948. And that's an encouragement for us. I mean, we have had in the last 2 days, as the flotilla began to get going, we have had dozens of news outlets in the United States finally calling us and asking us for the story—CNN and Fox News and the New York Times, outlets that have never paid any attention to the Palestinians or to what we've been doing, and we've been doing it for two years. And frankly, that I find that very encouraging. We've shown up on the Huffington Post. We've shown up on the Drudge Report. Those are extremely important for Americans to learn. Americans aren't stupid; we're just ignorant. And when we learn about what has happened, I think we tend to get very outraged that we have been lied to. I have. I have high hopes for Americans, not for the American government, but for Americans in general.

Sherif Fam: Yeah, I'm surprised when you mentioned that CNN and other outlets, because I haven't seen a thing on the mainstream media. Nothing.

Greta Berlin: Well, the New York Times has run 2 articles already about the flotilla. The Huffington Post has run at least 1 article. The Drudge Report has run 2 or 3 articles. CNN is running articles— CNN CNN is running a scroll on the bottom. And they call me maybe 2 or 3 times a day now and ask for an update. I do think that they're going to cover this. I don't think that they have any choice. I've had CNN in Jerusalem— and this is what's going to happen. CNN in Jerusalem, the BBC in Jerusalem, the AP, the Reuters, they're all calling us out of their Jerusalem offices.

Sherif Fam: Right.

Greta Berlin: If this story gets big enough, it'll be covered in the United States. It will be.

Sherif Fam: I hope so. I certainly hope so.

Greta Berlin: Well, when The New York Times— when The New York Times runs an article and misquotes me, I know I have arrived. Because they totally misquoted me, and I thought, OK, well, I'm not going to say anything. I'm just happy that they're talking about the flotilla. And so, they are beginning to do that. The Washington Post has called us. They— print is probably doing a better job than television is doing at the moment. But I am encouraged. I mean, I am an American. I feel personally very many times responsible for the fact that our government pays for this, what I call slow-motion genocide of the Palestinians. And I do think that Americans are beginning to wake up. And I don't think that Americans want this to be happening in their name. I honestly don't. And I— it may take a while, but I do see that there will not be an Israel the way it is now in the next few years. Israel is not going to survive as an apartheid state. That doesn't mean that it's going to be easy or it's going to be simple. It will not. But it will eventually be a state for all of its people.

Sherif Fam: OK. Certainly. Let's hope so. Let me see, what else can you tell us about the flotilla?

Greta Berlin: Well, the flotilla has 700 people who are going, a little bit more than 700 people. And most of the passengers are on this big Turkish passenger boat that has been purchased by what they call IHH. It's a big Turkish humanitarian organization. They also have a An Algerian boat that is being— that was loaded by the organization, and I think another boat that was funded by Kuwait. So they ended up with 2 cargo ships. We have a cargo ship called the Rachel Corrie. And then there's a Greek and Swedish cargo ship. And there are also people onboard all of those ships, as well. You can watch the streaming video. For anybody who really wants to watch this, There are 2 great websites people can watch. One is just IHH. They just have to Google IHH, and you will find their website come up right away. And you can see the streaming video. You can see the boats. You can see the passengers who were onboard the boat.

Sherif Fam: Yes.

Greta Berlin: The other one is ours, which is called witnessgaza.com. And we— although our streaming isn't live, we are doing interviews, and we are doing backgrounders and all kinds of video. Short programs. And then we upload them— we upload them 2 or 3 times a day, so people can see what's going on. I know that our videographer right now is working on one right now. And then you can also watch all of our Twitter accounts. And the other thing that we have on our website is you can follow the boats' progress.

Sherif Fam: Mm-hmm.

Greta Berlin: We have something called a spot locator, and you can see exactly where the boats are. You can see that where the boats came— many of the boats came down the coast from They left from Greece, came around the side of Cyprus. Now they're over by Lebanon. And when they start going, that spot locator will show you where they are about once an hour. So it's fun to watch, because you can really get involved. You can get involved, and you can watch. I have a hunch that most of us, certainly here in Cyprus, are not going to be sleeping much tonight. I don't think I've slept much, actually, for the last 2 nights, because it— although I'm not on board the boat, and I was I'm one of the co-founders of Free Gaza. I was on the very first voyage, so I know what it's like, and I know what it's like to have your satellite reception jammed and to have the Israeli warships hovering around behind you. I know what that's like, because I was there myself. But for the 2 or 3 of us who are trying to run this, we're in the office. Our friends are on these boats. We know these people. Many of these people we have known for years.

Sherif Fam: So, it's—

Greta Berlin: It's important for all of the people who are listening to me today in your area to go to those websites and to watch the streaming video and to really get involved in it, because this is a people's movement. The Palestinians have actually started a people's movement that I think is really going to be highly, highly successful.

Sherif Fam: Well, what is your website again?

Greta Berlin: It's witnessgaza.com.

Sherif Fam: Witnessgaza.com.

Greta Berlin: And the Turkish one is just IHH. If you just Google IHH, it'll take you straight to their website, and you can see the streaming video that is streaming live right now.

Sherif Fam: Great, great. You have some members of parliament. I think I saw at least one German member of parliament. Member of Parliament. And—

Greta Berlin: We have a— yes, actually, we have a lot of members of parliament. We have 3 Germans, and we have a Swedish member of parliament. We have a couple of Belgian members of parliament. There are members of parliament— there are 2 members of the Knesset, for example, Israeli-Palestinians who are on board, who are taking the biggest risk of all, because when they go back to Israel, they're likely Yeah. I mean, they take a huge risk. The rest of us don't have the kind of risk that they have decided they want to take. We have members of parliament from around the Arab world, members of parliament from Greece who are on board. So I don't know what the total count is, but I know that there's probably 30 or 40 members of parliament who are extremely supportive. I just saw this I saw this morning that there are members of parliament from Algeria, for example, who are on board the IHH ship. So it's really exciting, because you're beginning to get politicians involved, politicians who feel a certain responsibility that they also need to let their government know that the treatment of the Palestinians cannot continue the way it is.

Sherif Fam: Now, the EU, the European Union, I guess, has let out a statement?

Greta Berlin: Surprisingly enough— we are continuously shocked. Margaret Ashton, I think, is one of the members of the EU. They put out a relatively tepid endorsement. But it's better— I mean, it's certainly better than we expected. People— there have been U.N. agencies, Amnesty International. We've gotten endorsements from, really, from around the world. But when the EU puts out a Yeah. —a statement that says to Israel, do not harm our citizens and let this flotilla pass peacefully, it makes Israel look like the thug that it really is. I mean, Israel's going to send out its warships? They're saying this morning they're going to send out their warships and they're going to point their guns at us. We're civilians. We're going to stand in front of them in blue jeans. I mean, the world has got to see how insane Israel really is. Yeah. And I'm actually hoping that this is going to be one of the final blows for Israeli militarism, because you can't do that to a group of people who are doing their best to help another group of people, and then stand in front of us with your warships or board us with your commandos. It's insane. And it's time that the world started to say, what's the difference between what Somalian pirates do and what Israel does? There's no difference.

Sherif Fam: But it's happened before, and away from the cameras. That's why they want to jam all cameras, any live feed, any video. All of that is confiscated to make sure that the world does not see. Just doing what he does.

Greta Berlin: Well, it's going to be a lot harder to do that this time, because when we went the last time, which was almost a year ago, we had one small boat. And even then, we were able to get some of the footage out and upload it. But now you've got 6 boats and 700 people. Unless they, you know, unless they want to do something like bomb us all at once, It's not going to happen. People are going to get feeds out, and people are going to be able to take pictures. And there's been enough coverage now on this flotilla that people are beginning to realize— and certainly in Europe, people are beginning to realize— that this flotilla is on its way, and who's on board, and what's on board. And it's going to be very, very difficult for Israel. To be honest with you, this is a public relations disaster.

Sherif Fam: Right.

Greta Berlin: For Israel, because no matter what they do, they're going to look awful. That doesn't seem to concern them, Loretta. Oh, I think it does. I actually think it does. I think they're having a hysterical nervous breakdown over us. If you look at the— you know, we have Hebrew translators, because we have a lot of people who speak Hebrew who are Israeli Palestinians. And so they translate a lot of this. Now, maybe if it's in the English press, you might not know it, but in the Hebrew press, they're having a nervous breakdown. I'm hoping that we are giving them sleepless nights and that they are spending an awful lot of our money, because it always is our money, trying to figure out how to stop us. I don't think that they know what to do, because everything that they've tried to do, such as having a press conference and saying that 50 trucks a day go into Gaza, and then having the United Nations agency come back and say, I'm sorry, but it used to be 250 trucks a day, and you're starving the people of Gaza. It's been a disaster for them. Thank goodness. I think that's great.

Sherif Fam: That's great. This time, I think you will have made your point.

Greta Berlin: I think this time we will not only have made our point, but this will not be the last Mm-hmm. This is not about taking a flotilla in just one time. This is about opening up a sea lane for the people of Gaza to do what every one of us has the right to do, and that's have access to your own sea. Gaza is the only territory in the world, the only territory— just think about it. Gaza is the only territory in the world that has no access to its own sea. To its own sea. It doesn't have its access. The fishermen can't go out and fish past about a mile now. It has no access to its own sea, to its own fishing resources, to its own right to come in and to come out. And, of course, this is all under the guise that, oh my God, this has got to be all about Israel's security. Well, what about the security for the people of Gaza? And what about the people— the security of the people of Palestine in general?

Sherif Fam: Right.

Greta Berlin: Why is it always about Israel's security, and why are they allowed to do what they do? And that's what we're trying to stop.

Kevin Neish: Kevin Neish is a social justice and peace activist based in Victoria, B.C. He works with the Coalition Against Israeli Apartheid in Victoria. He's a retired engineer and has participated in numerous solidarity campaigns in Canada, Latin America, and Palestine. My name's Kevin Neish. According to the National Post, I'm a short-day socialist. So I guess you're a jihadist, are you, Farouk? Yeah, okay, fine then. I'm from Victoria, BC. I've been an activist all my life since the Vietnam War. For those who don't remember, that's in the 1960s. I was a human shield at Guantánamo for Rigoberto Menchú. I was a human rights observer, election observer in El Salvador in 2000, 2009.

Sherif Fam: I'm from the I was Philippines.

Kevin Neish: a human shield in 2002 with the International Solidarity Movement in Bethlehem, exactly a year before Richard Curtis was murdered. 2009, I was a human rights observer in Colombia. I was visiting political prisoners in Colombia. And in fact, the spring of this year, I was in Colombia visiting political prisoners there. The point of all this is— and I've done lots of work in South— you know, for South Africa, Ireland, Philippines, Chile.

Sherif Fam: Yeah.

Kevin Neish: All over the world, you know, it's— you name it, this person's been attacked. I'm not bragging, you know, it's my mom's fault, you know, she started me on this country. But the point is, is that the nutbar Zionists are saying that I'm antisemitic, that I only hate Israel. I mean, I can prove it. I'm not antisemitic. I'm anti-political Zionism. I'm an anti-racist. That's why I began speaking Spanish. So, Lou really covered a lot of what I needed to talk about, so I'll go to the flotilla. I was part of the Free Gaza flotilla. That's the original flotilla, original challengers of the blockades. In 2008, Free Gaza has been sending single Ships and large fishing boats to try and get in. I think they tried 7 times. George Galloway got in on one of the ships early on. They got 4 ships in, and then the last 3, one was rammed and almost sunk. It eventually did sink, but luckily it got back to Cyprus. And 2 of them were boarded by the Israelis and towed into Ashdod. And the boats have never been seen again, nor was the aid. So that's how Free Gaza was treated.

Sherif Fam: Yeah.

Kevin Neish: So this is the— I think it was the 8th. But this time, many groups joined. It's building. It's going to get bigger. This time there was many movements. There was going to be 8 ships. I was on one of the Free Gaza ships. It was an American flagship, actually both of them, Challenger 1, Challenger 2, about 70-foot each of them, older 2-deck yacht, not very big.

Sherif Fam: Yeah.

Kevin Neish: And we sail into Crete, and these Greeks are bragging that they sabotaged our ship, sabotaged both of our ships, as well as the Rachel Corrie, which was sailing out of Piraeus. All 3 ships were damaged. We lost our steering. And nobody's talked about this, but they came close to killing us because they bragged about sabotaging our ship. We lost our steering in the middle of somewhat of a storm between Crete and Cyprus.

Sherif Fam: And you were in danger.

Kevin Neish: We were beaten up so bad, you can imagine trying to maneuver without proper steering. We were beaten up so bad we split seams in our hull and started to take on water, and we weren't going to Gaza. After the storm abated, we got to the Red Line, and the captain said, we're taking on water. We're not going to sink now, but we're not going to go to Gaza. And so we thought things were finished. I was on the ship. But, um, it was like the cavalry over the horizon came, the Mavi with Farouk and 680 other Turkish activists, and they asked the Mavi if they would take us on. Our ship had about 11 activists, no cargo other than small donations, but it was— our ship had Colonel Ann Wright from the United States Army, retired colonel that was barred from coming Toronto. Oh, we had 3 German MPs, a Green MP from Norway, I believe, a German doctor. We had a fellow from— a Palestinian whose mother was dying in Gaza, and he was desperate to get there, and he was joining the flotilla to get to Gaza to see his dying mother. His mother died the day before the attack. What town were you from? Anyways, so yeah, we— gotta check my notes, keep me on track here. I'll be very quick. Yeah, we lost our steering, I think on water, so we transferred to the Mavi Marmara. And that's an interesting point in this thing. This huge ship pulled up to our little yacht, the side door opened up, and it was calm water, so we just jumped on board. And they immediately frisked me, took my baggage, Walked to one side, and first we talked about him thoroughly and quarantined me. And every person that came on board got the same treatment. All the activists that came on board, we all got patted down, put into a quarantine on Deck 1, and waited while they went through our bags. But by default, me being a mechanic, I had a pocket knife in my bag, and it wasn't there when I got my bag back. I guess it was pulled out and thrown away. And you were not allowed to have a pocket knife? They were taken off the side. The film crew with us from Australia, they had some booze in their bag. The booze was taken off the side. They, again, they didn't want weapons on that ship, and no booze. You know, those Muslims. But they were thorough. They were thorough about no weapons on the ship. And after they searched us and quarantined us, I was on deck 1, which was where some of the aid was stored in big pallets, as well as the women. The women could go anywhere, but the first deck was for women alone if they wanted to be on the boat. I think there was 50 to 100 women on board. But the women were all through the ship, and many journalists, which I thought was wonderful, women journalists from Arab nations and Turkey. And I was on deck 2. And anyways, I'm probably rambling. I'll get back on topic here. Florentine, gotta get your pocket knife. So my job was— well, the reason I was on the flotilla was to break the blockade. We gotta break the blockade.

Jesse Rosenfeld: That's the—

Kevin Neish: I don't care if they'll give us roses and dance in the streets to let us go to Ashdod to take it to Gaza. We're not going to Egypt. Or Israel were going to Gaza. My job was being a human rights observer. When I got to Gaza, I was going to be working with the International Solidarity Movement, ISM, and basically doing exactly what Rachel Corrie was doing when she was going there. I was going to be working on the wells and sewer system in Rafah, patrolling the border between Egypt and Rafah. To stand and be witness and be a human shield between the Israelis and the Palestinian people. So on the ship, I had no chores to do then. On the Challenger 2, I was to slow down the Israelis to allow the film crew, Australian film crew, to upload to satellite their film footage. So my job was to stand on a very narrow—

Sherif Fam: Bridge.

Kevin Neish: I would go out into the passageway and be a rugby player like my good old school days, and just stand there and violently stomp these folks. And that job was finished, and I was just basically free to do anything on the Mavi Marmara. I was— I could go anywhere— not anywhere. The top deck was secure, obviously the bridge and the communications center on the top deck. Otherwise, I could go anywhere, speak to anyone.

Sherif Fam: And you were on the bridge?

Kevin Neish: I broke bread, had tea with many, many wonderful people, some of them dead now.

Jesse Rosenfeld: So what did I see?

Kevin Neish: Like I say, I had a day to cruise around and observe and break bread. And basically I saw a bunch of— some women. I saw the 89-year-old patriarch of the Church of Jerusalem. It took 2 men to help him move around the deck. He was 89. And he was on the arrest list in Israel. They wanted him, this ancient, tottering old man. And he was on board, and there was an 11-month-old child of the chief engineer, and his wife was on board. Again, many women, a lot of retired old men like me. Not like me, I guess, but you can see, if you go to cultures, cultures of resistance, Lara Sheehi. Lara Sheehi, she's a Brazilian filmmaker. She smuggled out 1 hour of video. It's got me in it, 24-minute mark, you'll see me. She smuggled it somehow, she got it up, and it's wonderful because it shows a half hour before the attack and a half hour of the attack. So you'll get a real— I mean, it's raw footage, so you'll get a real live idea of Who was on that ship. And don't take my word for it, look at the video. You know, Google Mavi Marmara, go to freegaza.org, anything will lead you back to that film, and you'll see who was on that ship. It was full of middle-aged, older men with rushlights on, schoolteachers like me. I used to be a schoolteacher. And women. I mean, there were some young folks on there, but for the most part it was Older men and women, and this bullshit about the old people of Hedges is bizarre. So what did I see? I was cruising around the deck just before the attack. Actually, the reason they thought I was dead was— because everybody thought I was dead— was that the last time anybody saw me, I was standing in the moonlight speaking to Sarah, who was an American activist, on the port side at the On the 3rd deck. On the 3rd deck. And that's the last time anybody ever saw me, because from that point I went down and had a nap. And, uh, but because that was the last spot anybody saw me, they all told the embassy that, well, that's the last time we saw Kevin. Well, that's where the helicopter murdered the first 2 people, I understand. They shot right there and massacred a couple of people. And they, they, everybody, embassy thought, when embassy found me, they I walked in there and said, Kevin Eash, Kevin Eash, Kevin Eash! She goes, what, it's me? I said, you're Kevin Eash? She said, yeah, Kevin Eash. You're supposed to be dead. I said, well, I'm not. Well, you were killed on the deck. You were thrown overboard. That's what everybody said. But luckily I was— well, somebody else was in my spot, unfortunately. But yeah, I went down and had a nap. But before I went down, I toured the ship deck for deck, and what I saw was, uh, The aid workers laying out fire hoses. They had long 10-foot wooden boat hooks for pulling Zodiacs in, for boats, but they were going to use it to push these riggies away. Like I said, they had charged up all the fire hoses, the assault-mounted fire hoses. They had— oh, I saw gas masks, I saw many floodlights, handheld floodlights. The whole ship was lit up with many, many floodlights. And the fire hoses were for the Zodiacs? Floodlights pointing out and cameras pointing all over the place to watch for what was coming. And what I saw, which took my breath away, on the front teak handrailing on the 3rd deck across the front were nuts and bolts. They— somebody had gone to the engine room and picked up nuts and bolts. They'll throw at these raids. I couldn't believe it. I was thunderstruck. And I would go, what do they think they're doing? So I brought my camera out, and one of the Turkish aid workers from IHHA waved at me as if I was taking a picture of a nuclear device. No, no, no, he says. No pictures. I'm being polite. You're mad. You know, the Israelis are going to come in with whatever, submarines and ships and helicopters, and you've got nuts here, nuts and bolts to throw at them. And they were like, and there were stations, there was a pile here, and then about 10 feet there'd be another pile along the handrail. Anyways, after that, I, um, they were putting on the life jackets at that point, it was quite a scramble. I wouldn't say panic, but people were We're getting prepared, because they thought we were going down. Understand, they're putting life jackets on. They thought we were going down. It's we're going to Gaza or we're going down. That's the thinking on the ship. So I went down and had a nap, thinking that the Israelis were going to attack. This ship's full of old men, some very, very old men, women, a little child, and we're International waters, and it's dark. Well, you know, they're not going to attack in the dark, so I went down to have a nap. And I actually, actually woke some people when they were— I said, no, kids are like jacking off, you can't get any rest. They were right, I was wrong. Um, so at 4 o'clock, as Ruth was thinking— you should have put the picture back up. Can you put the picture back up, Ruth? If you don't mind, give you something to look at besides me. So as, um, the picture of the, of the, uh, We don't want to wait. It's a different joke? Actually, is it? Oh, the one with the Mavi. There we go, that's perfect. That's great right there. Yeah, so there's the Mavi. So I was sitting right behind the Turkish flag. That's why I wasn't there. But there's that— that's Deck 2 lounge. You can see the open stern on Deck 2. Deck 1 had no access. Deck 1 is down below with no access to the outside. That's where the women were, and that's where these radio commandos that were captured were hidden. So I was, uh, actually that window that you can see is almost where I was, and I was just getting up and getting my camera batteries ready and this and that and getting prepared to, um, well, I didn't think anything was going to happen, but all of a sudden that lower deck erupted, and it was just behind a set of windows.

Sherif Fam: Oh my God.

Kevin Neish: There's windows along the back there. And the whole thing erupted in flames, flash grenades, percussion grenades. The windows were— and these were heavy windows, they were moving. And the whole thing was enveloped in tear gas. And I could hear bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, and hearing things hit things. So I didn't know if it was live ammo. I guess it wasn't at that point. You wouldn't run bullets like that.

Sherif Fam: Yes.

Kevin Neish: They said he had paint guns. These weren't just regular paint guns. These were paintballs with like a tear gas solution or a pepper spray solution inside, and they said there was actually hard things inside the paintballs. I heard this from a number of people, but it was like chemical weapons being shot at the activists. It wasn't just paint. So anyways, that whole backboard erupted. And they had those big floodlights around, and what it was, it was 2 ships, about 30-foot rigid-hulled Zodiacs, with about 20 soldiers each, all holed up either side, trying to throw grapples up and trying to get onto the deck. And I could see through the smoke these aid workers with gas masks and running with fire hoses back and forth and with long poles. Talk about courageous. They were— you guys should see again, if you check out the videos with Free Gaza, you'll see them. It's like a porcupine on the back pushing these Israelis away, pushing them away, you know, nonviolently, just, you know, get away from our ship. You know, it was repelling criminals. That's what we were doing. We were repelling criminals. I don't have so much time here. So, um, so I decided that, uh, My place wasn't on the front line of this thing. There were professionals repelling. My job was to back up and take my camera and do my rights of observation work. So I retired to the inner stairwell, which is about even with— just in front of the forward lifeboat, I'd say. There's a door that goes in there, and it goes between all 3 decks. So there's a stairwell from the first deck, but I was on the The second deck. So you were in the stairwell? 2nd, 3rd, and then the 4th deck is the one that the lifeboats are sort of even with. And the top of the ship is where Truth was saying that the helicopter hovered and dropped people on. Actually, it's above the bridge. It's upper deck, but it has access to the bridge. We weren't allowed up there. There was no access to that area other than stairways from management. So I retired to that. As I walked through the stairwell, I'm thinking it was deck— it would have been deck 2. I took note that there was a medical station with a tarpaulin, about enough for one person to lay down. And I didn't even realize, but I saw the 2 for sure Israeli soldiers, captured commandos coming in. Who knows how they captured them, but they— I guess 3, there was initially 3 came down, and they somehow overwhelmed these guys. They were armed.

Sherif Fam: They were armed.

Kevin Neish: They said they weren't armed is fine, because it was, uh, activists took the guns off of them, emptied the bullets. And I heard this from— I heard it in the prison, I heard it afterwards, heard it at many places, that they emptied the bullets over the side. Except for one gun that Ken O'Keefe took. He's the ex-Marine from Ireland, and he's the one that got beaten up in the Israeli airport for not signing the voluntary deportation letter. You know, you gotta sign that voluntary personal deportation letter or you get beat up. But he, he, uh, he, he just, he got rid of the bullets, but he hid his gun that he took off thinking that he could use it as evidence if the ship did get through to prove that the Israelis landed with weapons. And the Israelis are saying that they found that gun, and they're saying that that gun was used against them. And it's, wow, I believe Ken. And there was people there that watched it, and he pulled them over to the side, and he said he kept the gun as evidence, hid it somewhere, and they found it. So, um, I'm probably rambling on here. I don't think you're, um— That's the bolts. Yeah. So what they used was— I mean, there were no arms on that ship. Um, I watched while after those 2 Israeli soldiers were dragged They were terrified. They were kids, and they were terrified. And I mean, I felt sorry for them because they were yammering and wrenching. Well, the one— give me a 5-minute warning— one was being held by arms and legs, and he was thrashing and yammering and screaming. His eyes were as big as saucers. And they were busy taking the knife off his leg. The guns were already gone. They took the guns off on the deck. But they were taking the knife off his They're taking his ammo belts off, his backpack, and this and that. And a great big Turk— because they'd already killed at least 2 people on the deck by then, because they shot before they landed. The captain says that, and so does Al Jazeera. I didn't see it, but I trust these people. A great big Turk who was just enraged, this large man, he stepped— he climbed over top of the aid workers who were holding the Israeli, and he tried to lay a haymaker on this guy.

Greta Berlin: He was a big He guy.

Kevin Neish: wanted to kill him, obviously. He was just enraged. The 2 aid workers dropped the Israeli's feet, turned, pushed him down the stairs, pinned this guy against the wall, and were screaming at him in Turkish. I mean, I guess they were screaming at him, you don't do that, you don't touch this man, you know, back off. And very quickly, somebody else grabbed both legs. Well, they pinned this guy and they rushed that Israeli soldier down the stairs. They were protecting these guys. And I saw that. They marched him down the stairs, I followed, they took him downstairs, and then the, the, the, uh, there were still, there were bodies by then coming in from other decks already down below, but they took care of these guys. You'll see the pictures, you've seen the pictures I'm sure, I've got pictures of it, and other pictures have turned up, that they, they, they, there's a big Turkish doctor there, and he's Cleaning up the wound on these fellows and cleaned them up. Then they took them down to the first deck. I couldn't follow then, but they took them down to the first deck, the women's deck, because that was the safest place to keep them, because there was no access to the outside, and they just held them there for their own safety. So yeah, then 2 came in. One carried, the second one was standing, and they hurried him down the stairs, rushed. He had blood on his face from being— I guess he gave a face plant into the deck. But he was fine. Well, he certainly looked alive and well. He was not unconscious. And then there was one more that I took a picture of, not realizing it was an Israeli. But there was 3 of them that were captured that I ended up seeing. And like I say, from what I saw, they protected them and took them down below for their own safety.

Sherif Fam: The weapons?

Kevin Neish: It was being pulled at night. It was hardware off the ship. It was, again, nuts and bolts. It was sticks. It was broom handles. It was stanchions, which— I'm a marine engineer, but what it is, it's like fence posts, steel fence posts that are removable for getting to lifeboats. And they had chains that they had— I could hear them grinding when I was actually going to bed. I thought, what? What?

Sherif Fam: What? What?

Kevin Neish: Maintenance? Are they doing it now on a ship? What they were doing, they were grinding off the little chains that were used to section off the lifeboats, and they were grinding them off the one end. So these were about 3-foot chains. I wouldn't lock my bike up in a small town, let alone Toronto. These were just little short chains, and they were using that to whip at these Israeli soldiers, and that's why 9 got killed and about 40 wounded, because They had sticks and bars and 3-foot chains against a man with a machine gun the length of this stage away from them. And that's— and a helicopter above shooting down. So that's why it was a massacre. That's why— but, um, I mean, it was. I, uh, witnessed it. Um, I didn't see anything that was brought on board that was a weapon, other than— you'll see it in the film— 2 fellows brought on little Little child-sized slingshots. And you'll see it in Yara Ali's film that these fallen fellows are on the 4th deck shooting up at the helicopter, shooting marbles up at the helicopter. And they're risking their lives because they're jumping out in the open, shooting at the helicopter, jumping back. Marbles, for God's sakes. But anyways, that's— you shouldn't laugh. So what happened then? The commandos After the commanders came down the stairs, I went back up. That's when the dead and wounded poured in. I've repeated this a million times. Dime store novels talk about blood flowing down the stairs. There was blood flowing down the goddamn stairs. There was pools of blood dripping from stair to stair to stair. It was just— I must have saw 2 dozen bodies, people dragged in alive and dead. How much time?

Sherif Fam: 2.

Kevin Neish: 2 minutes. So, um, so, uh, yeah, I gotta make sure I got, um— they asked you about the hit list later on. Maybe you've heard about it. I saw 2 people on— and like, I eventually went downstairs to, um, to look at the bodies or the people downstairs. I saw one body, one fellow laying there, body with a pair of bullet holes inside of his head. I thought, that looks like execution to me. I thought, but I'm, you know, that's going way out there, you know, that's horrendous, that's, you know, I don't even want to think that. Even these Iraqi soldiers, I saw a second body, 2 bullet holes on his head, and again these people are wounded other places. And I kept that to myself. I thought they were executing people on the back. You know, they got hit, they rolled up in a ball, somebody walked up and they call it double-clicking in Iraq, the Americans.

Sherif Fam: Double-clicking. Click, click.

Kevin Neish: Click, click. Well, I kept quiet about that until I landed in Victoria and I heard from the Turkish authorities that 4 of their— at least 4 of their 9 dead were shot at close range with shots to the head. So I saw it too. So I could start and end my whole presentation by saying these people executed 4 aid workers, were Wounded and helpless on the deck. And I've seen the proof, and the Turks produced the proof. And I could walk away now and you could just go home with that, and that's all I can— I mean, there's nothing else to say. You know, ignore the $4,000 they stole from me. Ignore the wounds. Ignore the bathroom that I didn't get to see for 15 hours, the beatings, the guns to my head. What more can you say? But I'll carry on.

Sherif Fam: Thank you.

Kevin Neish: The whole thing wrapped up with— I was on the 4th deck. The wooden door, hatch door opened up to the outside. A machine gun stuck in, and an Israeli soldier started shooting into this metal bulkheaded stairwell. He didn't care who he hit. Bullets were ricocheting everywhere, and he just let go. And 2 aid workers, one with a chain and one with a bar, beat that fellow back.

Sherif Fam: And then you were on the 4th deck.

Kevin Neish: Whipping, whipping the— whipping— I couldn't see his hands. All I saw was the barrel of his whip, but he was whipping and beating the fellow back. And then the big Turk reached around and grabbed the broken porthole and slammed the door shut. Then he took position to either side of the door, and I got a picture of it. If you check out the Free Gaza, there's a picture of one guy on each side with a bar to defend themselves against these radios and machine guns. And, uh, they wrapped me up.

Sherif Fam: And you were So in the back of the truck?

Kevin Neish: what happened then? If that soldier had gone in, he would have killed all of us. He would have— I mean, he wanted to kill anybody, anybody in there. So what happened? Luckily, what happened was the Israelis took control of the bridge. So what happened then is— this is important— the captain came on the PA system and he announced in Turkish, or Arabic, I guess, that the bridge had been seized by the Israelis, that they're not going to Gaza, that stop resisting. And this is important because everybody Everybody, all the Israelis were saying that they, that we, I was a dupe, and I was simply used to bring these Israelis and Jews onto the ship so that these terrorists, Farouk, could kill Jews. And you've heard this over and over again. If that was the case, they would have killed those 3 commandos immediately, and they wouldn't have stopped fighting. Because what happened when the captain announced that the bridge had been taken, it was like a magnetic switch had been thrown. Everybody around me dropped their hardware. They dropped the chains, they dropped the bars, they dropped the sticks. They just— like it was automatic, they just dropped it. If that was the case, they would have killed those 3 Turk commandos immediately, and they wouldn't have stopped fighting. Because what happened when the captain announced that the bridge had been taken, it was like a magnetic switch had been thrown. Everybody around me dropped their hardware. They dropped the chains, they dropped the bars, they dropped the sticks. They just, like it was automatic, they just dropped it. I didn't even have to hear the English translation because I knew what had happened. I thought, oh, the bridge has been taken. We're not going to Gaza because they just dropped it. They turned and they obediently, like a bunch of sheep, walked down the stairs and went to the assembly areas and lounges and just waited for the Israelis to cuff us and brutalize us some more. So that's it. It's just, it's one of That's what those things. I saw, that they weren't there— they were there to get aid to Gaza. And when the captain said, we're not going to Gaza, there was no sense hurting anybody anymore. If they wanted to hurt people, they would have carried on fighting and drawn the Israeli soldiers inside, where a 3-foot bar would have hurt the Israelis. Doorway to doorway, room to room, hatch to hatch, they would have fought. But they didn't. They didn't. The second they gave— couldn't get to Gaza, They dropped the weapons.

Jesse Rosenfeld: Weapons.

Kevin Neish: They dropped their hardware and stopped the resistance. And, uh, that's— and if you want to know more, go to freegaza.org, because there's a Canadian ship going in September. They're gonna raise $300,000. The Turks already made me promise I'm going back whether I want to or not, so I know the Turks want me back. If they want me, if they want a tired old worn-out guy again, I'll go again. So that's Gerald Horne. Any questions?

Jesse Rosenfeld: Our next speaker is going to be Jesse Rosenfeld. Jesse is a Canadian print and video journalist based in Ramallah. And Tel Aviv-Jaffa since 2007. He's the print editor of The Daily Nuisance. He's also written from the Middle East for so many publications, and you'll recognize most of them, I think: The Guardian, The Nation, The National, which is an Abu Dhabi English newspaper, Haaretz English, The Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, Now Magazine, Znet, and Electronic Arts. He's also been a blogger with allvoices.com and Mondoweiss. Did I say that right? And he's produced video content for The Daily Beast and The Real News. The theme of the evening is looking at siege and the effect of siege. And something to understand about sieges is that they only continue as long as they've got the consent of everyone to isolate. The same is true with apartheid. And with that, I'm going to start by talking about the flotilla massacre. The Israeli military, as we saw, massacred 9 people when they landed their troops in the most densely populated civilian ship earlier this month, when they landed commandos on the deck, allegedly firing They were firing live ammunition from the helicopters, according to the ship's captain, when they locked those that they had shot in the basement, refusing medical attention, only negotiating for over an hour before an exchange for soldiers that had been captured and medical attention for everyone on the ship would have— was agreed upon. The soldiers were shot? Actually had been treated for their injuries by ship's medics, though. There were assassination lists that Al Jazeera had exposed, booklets of names of activists, some of which, you know, and some of those killed had similar facial features and similar identities to those in the booklets. So what we saw was this massacre played out in front of Al Jazeera and the international media. And it's kind of baffling as to why, really. They had maintained a siege on Gaza for 3 years and successfully contained 1.5 million people while keeping the world at bay from breaking what is arguably one of the most severe manufactured humanitarian crises and war crimes that we see in the world today. And that's the point. And what we saw happen was the Israeli army somehow believed that they could treat the international activists the same way they treat Palestinians daily, and that the world would turn a blind eye to that as well. Now, the reality of that was that it was calculated. What we saw was a What we've seen is them diplomatically doing backwards cartwheels and now having to alleviate the siege and put a new spin on their flow of humanitarian aid as a— with the motto of the siege being over. Realistically, they're allowing a bit more aid in. So we saw them lose there drastically. But it's understandable when you think about the situation.

Sherif Fam: Yeah.

Jesse Rosenfeld: You look at what happened on the ship, why they thought they could get away with it. And it's because they— and you can see this in the rhetoric that the Israelis have put out since then. Consistently, they've maintained the same PR stance of a state under siege that they've always maintained. It's just it doesn't seem to be washing particularly well anymore. So, you know, while a lot of people have speculated that this was A bad mix of planning that led to unfortunate incidents. But we can understand from the Israeli strategy that this was completely intentional and just politically not working for them. And I'll explain why. Basically what we saw on the flotilla was the army landing in the most densely populated and where they knew there was going to be a clash with armed commandos. Now, why did they do that? Well, what they clearly intended to do there was send a message to the activists, a bloody message, that we understand you may not recognize the legitimacy of this 3-year siege that we've imposed, but you're going to understand our force, and you're going to understand directly what it is that we are willing to do to keep Gaza out of sight of the rest of the world. And the reason they made that decision was because basically this was becoming the major channel for recognition of Palestinians and interaction that was not controlled by the Israelis. It was the one way you could go to Gaza and not have to be facilitated facilitated through Israeli government officials, through an Israeli PR apparatus, through an Israeli technocratic and bureaucratic control process where they get to understand and try and fully control the situation. And what they really didn't like about that was that you had former congresspeople on the boats, you had European members of parliament. So it wasn't a message to the activists who actually fought and died, because they were willing to do that. It was a message To the liberal establishments in the West that have started to basically be unable to ignore the situation in Gaza any longer, to send a message to them. We know you don't really care about Arabs and don't think this is going to be worth it. So, you know, you know this is a— you may hate us for it, but after this, you're not going to get on another boat. And they wanted to send that message to that community. And then at the same time, they wanted to try and be able to control the international reaction and basically understand that they were going to take some criticism and they were going to take some heat, but then they were going to return to normalcy. The normalized relations of US backing, the normalized relations of mild criticism with Europe while the 60% trade relation maintains itself. They were going to go back to— sure, things were tense with Turkey, but it actually kind of played up both parties' interests. The Turks had an interest in terms of hostility towards Israel as becoming a Western broker for the U.S. in the Middle East. The Israelis had an interest in terms of national protectionism and the rallying of jingoism that's been going on in that society around any force that has become more critical as Israeli actions become more obnoxious. And so they wanted to send a message to them that this was within the terms of self-defense, that this was in the terms of international legitimacy, and this was in the terms of protecting Israeli citizens. So what they immediately did was they put out a call, they went into immediate reaction over the killings and justified them. And they tried to justify them within the international terms of engagement, within their own military codes of engagement. And so what they were immediately doing was putting out a defense for their actions. And what they said was, we were under attack. They were attacking us with stones and poles. We only used live ammunition after soldiers of ours had been taken. We were in a crisis situation. And they provided contradictory examples throughout the entire process in defining what was happening with action. We saw time and time again claims of photos that they were making in terms of being attacked actually being doctored from different eras and different events. We saw time and time again their claims of live fire not matching the reality of situations. Most of those killed were shot in the neck, in the back of the head, in the back. And it just wasn't adding up, but they were still pushing that line because what they were trying to send a message to the world was, was we know this is messy, we know this is complicated, you may disagree with it, we're within our terms of defense, and we're going to try and ride it out. It's— and the reason they thought they could get away with this, and It may seem completely absurd to everyone outside the country. And I'm sitting in my apartment all the time thinking and saying regularly, how— first of all, how absurd it is that they're getting away with stuff like this, but how absurd it is that the way Israelis are conceiving it and hearing the news, and at the same time—

Sherif Fam: Yeah.

Jesse Rosenfeld: Completely buying into a glossed-over vision of events in the Middle East that effectively don't have Palestinians outside of the military capacity, and we're talking about the majority population where they live. And it's so— that kind of sealed-off bubble gives some insight into why they thought they could get away with this. It's because it's the way they treat Palestinians all the time. And a good example of that And a very similar situation to Fletch Hill was when I was covering the story of 4 boys that were killed in Nablus in March. They, um, it started in the village of Arak Bireen when the Israeli soldiers decided to seize a road to defend, to basically secure it as a throughway for settlers to get to a religious site. Now, it was a town that had recently launched a popular struggle, and these are local Local committees of different political factions and social institutions that do popular mobilized demonstrations to exercise the land as a sign of defense for it. When the army comes, they clash in order to defend it. So what happened was the army came into town to seal it off. People came out and started clashing with the army to prevent the settlers from being able to use that road as a throughway. Now, what happened after— what happened What happened at that point was the Israelis opened up with live ammunition, according to, for example, the International Solidarity Movement's media coordinator who was there at the time. And they had seized the center of town, and they started firing live ammunition kind of indiscriminately. And 2 kids were killed, 16 and 18, or 17 and 18, I believe. And the justification immediately was we were under attack.

Sherif Fam: Right.

Jesse Rosenfeld: There were rocks being thrown. And they— what was interesting was that they denied the use of live ammunition. They denied it to this day, despite what all the X-rays have showed. They've still claimed it's rubber and it's plastic bullets— rubber bullets and tear gas and plastic-tipped bullets. So they've continued to maintain that claim to this day, despite what Palestinian hospitals have shown. But there Yeah. Their, again, immediate defense was we were under attack, and we had— they had means, which were stones to kill us, and they had intent. They didn't want us there. Now, what was interesting was that they were at a T-junction intersection. They could have left the town anytime they wanted to. They didn't have to secure a Palestinian road that connects Palestinian villages for settlers, but But instead they decided to stay, entrench themselves, and send a message by creating 2 dead boys. Now, the same thing repeated itself the next day. I went out to the funeral in Iraqwari, and I wasn't there when the kids were killed. And it was a huge community outpouring. It was the first casualties in that area in a long time. And the reason— I'll get I'll get to that actually later. And so, yeah, there's this huge outpouring in the media. It's absolutely everywhere. And it's interesting because, you know, no sooner had the bodies been put in the grave— and I was actually talking to kids who had gone to high school with the kids— when someone walked over to me and told me that just across the way, just on the other side of Nablus, in this village of Huwarta, 2 other kids had just been killed. And like, we were shocked. We thought, you know, immediately rumors. Why would the Israelis stage such a provocation? And it was interesting. So I jumped in a— with our Daily News photographer, jumped in a car with an AP photographer. We buzzed— we sort of jetted it out of Iraqi Marine towards Awarta. The army had shut off access to the town, and so we weren't we weren't getting in. And so we decided to double back to the Nablus hospital and see what had happened with the bodies. Well, it was interesting because it took us about 30 minutes to drive because you're driving through Nablus and you're going through a checkpoint, and then about another 20 minutes to drive back to the hospital. which is in the center of Nablus, and the bodies still haven't arrived. And immediately it's obvious that something is up. Not only is something up, but the Israelis are covering up. And so eventually, an hour after we're at the hospital, the bodies arrive, and they're both shot from close range. And, you know, following the ambulances This is a sobbing father who looked like, at least for the past several blocks, he just walked the entire way. They were related. I believe they were cousins. And so— and he immediately says the Israelis have assassinated these boys. And we wonder what's going on, and immediately the story starts to trickle in. Basically, they were farming in the fields, and they were near a nearby settlement. The army had called— the army had been called. They showed up. The boys were asked to present IDs. They were marched off by the army. 5 minutes later, shots were heard.

Greta Berlin: Oh my God.

Jesse Rosenfeld: The army claims and continued to claim— and I immediately got on the phone with them when I heard this— they immediately began to claim that the boys had attacked the army, that they had attacked the soldiers with first— and I went through, I think, 7 different phone calls. First they said they attacked them with garden picks, then they said they attacked them with axes and axe handles, then it was shovels, I believe it was, then it was rocks. Finally, the story that they settled on was that they were taken in for For a polite questioning, which means they weren't handcuffed, which means that they were brought to the side of the road while their IDs were checked, and the soldiers didn't see it as threatening enough to detain them in any more confined fashion. And then apparently, according to the Army, they went crazy, and one picked up a syringe, and one picked up a bottle of rocks. And they threw them at the soldiers? And tried to attack the soldiers.

Sherif Fam: And tried to attack the soldiers.

Jesse Rosenfeld: Now, I've never seen a bottle of rocks, and there isn't a hell of a lot of heroin in the West Bank, so I haven't seen many syringes either. And that was the army's position, and the reason was, like with the flotilla massacre, they thought they could get away with it. They thought they could ride it out. And why were they doing this now? Well, what had happened was Israel, when this happened, was under severe pressure From what was happening with the protests in Sheikh Jarrah and so on, the expansions in Jerusalem. It started to even receive criticism for its repression against wall demonstrations in the West Bank from the Western community. It's— the siege was really gaining momentum in terms of bringing attention. And so what the Israelis wanted to do, and this is why they targeted Nablus, Nablus was the heart of armed resistance. In the Second Intifada, the Israelis were unable to break it. They sieged it. They sieged it bitterly. But they were never able to fully force out the fighters of the Old City. The Knights of Nablus, which were part of the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, held on to their guns. Hamas during the Intifada had a stronghold, and the Israelis were not able to fully occupy the Old City. They were able to siege it with snipers around. And the only people that broke that armed resistance and that broke the struggle of Nablus were actually the PA, who co-opted and negotiated the guns away. And since January this year, the army has been running free rein assassination squads in the city. So why did they do this in Nablus then? I mean, it's the city of historic resistance, you think there'd be reprisal. Maybe that's exactly what they were going for. Maybe it was at that point their desire, and this is clear in terms of the way that they provoked, they wanted to spark violence, a violent response from Palestinians that could set in motion a rapidly expanding resistance that would fall out on their terms, because they had already cut up the West Bank with the wall, and they had already sealed it off from Gaza, and they knew there was a revolt about to happen at some point. So they wanted to do it on their own terms and be able to control the way the violence and the way the struggle played out so that they could basically control their PR message and control a blunt military response. And it failed. And it failed. And it failed in Nablus because you have struggle across the West Bank right now that has learned the experience of the Second Intifada, which put their best activists dead or in jail, and has left, you know, an even more entrenched, broken Palestinian Authority that is entirely reliant on a collaborator relationship with Israel, they understood that they could use that network to quell any real substantial security threat of violence, but the propaganda would be great. And so that's what we saw happen there. And they didn't get it because you have martyrs that have already— or those killed in demonstrations that have already been— struggles across the West Bank against the wall have already developed an expectation of and a response to. And it's a revolt that is in full swing, and they called the Intifada immediately. But let's talk a little bit about that struggle and what it's coming out of. As I said, you've never seen a larger cantonization in Palestine, in Palestinian society, than you currently see today. You see a complete segmentation of the West Bank. Bank, where you have in a fraction of the territory a Palestinian Authority that is completely responsible to Israel, runs security operations, tackling Palestinian anti-occupation resistance, has recently started to go after people active in the boycott movement even, after they've been unable to co-opt that message.

Farooq Burney: You have—

Jesse Rosenfeld: so you have a Palestinian Authority that is willing to basically run the Israeli fractures through the most densely parted parts of the West Bank. You have a segmentation of Palestinian villages in the border areas from the heart of Palestinian society and culture within the West Bank. And I haven't even gotten to the separation of Gaza and the refugees and Palestinian citizens of Israel yet. And then you have a complete disconnect from Jerusalem. People who, for the most part, haven't gone since Since the Intifada, or haven't got legally anyway, since the Second Intifada. And then you have Gaza, where through this Palestinian elite and through a sort of pumping of development dependency out of the Oslo Accords, you have a wealthy sort of Ramallah class that looks at it, you know, down its nose to Gaza. I mean, it looks at them as this sort of I guess seaside, overbaked, I guess wasteland that they can control. I didn't really want to say it, but like they do very much look at Gaza as this sort of fractured, flattened place that they can sort of play politics with to maintain their own political power. Right. And so you have that amongst a very real political national division that they've manufactured very much at the behest of the United States and at the pressure of Israel to hold on to their own political power. Because let's look at the fact of where the guns are coming from, where the dollars are coming from, Western NGOs, Kalashnikovs from Jordan funneled through Israel. And so they've done their job within the West Bank of trying to segment and drive deep, unhealable splits, because this is what Israel's strategy has always been. Israel has always designed— the separation between the West Bank and Gaza could not have been a bigger dream for Israel. Right. It's been something they've been trying to achieve throughout the Oslo process, something that had been resisted, but as the institutional mechanisms of the PA, you know, deepened their control, and as the leadership lost its popular legitimacy and was reliant far more on its crude power, as that sunk in, so did the full level of the kind of division that will take a new generation of Palestinians to get beyond in terms of a national healing towards a liberation project. And by a new generation, I mean, you know, kids under 30. So that's the segmentation there. Now you have a situation of Palestinian Israelis these days whose loyalty is constantly under question. And so every interaction they have with Palestinians or the greater Arab world is automatically an act of espionage, an act of subversion. And so you have this huge intimidation campaign politically to dissuade them from any sort of Palestinian national identification, Palestinian activism. You have a huge politically repressive state security apparatus that's been systematically targeting Palestinian-Israeli political leadership. And that ranges from the fact that you've seen arrests of the main human rights groups' leaders like Intijar's leader Amir— I've forgotten his last name. That's really bad. You saw the targeting of the Stop the Wall campaign, Jamal Juma, the leader of the organization, while they then arrested the youth coordinator. That's the basic network for the grassroots campaign fighting the wall along the borderlines. You've had a reintroduction of ideas around loyalty. You've had a severely violent police response to Palestinian activism. And then most recently with the flotilla, you have calls for indictments of espionage and terror— and I think terrorism was one of them— against Knesset members. Members who are Palestinian that went on the flotilla to interact with Palestinians in Gaza, which is especially ironic because I'm living in Jaffa and 90% of Gaza's population— sorry, 90% of Jaffa in 1948 was sent down the river on boats, pushed into the sea if you will, and sent down to Gaza. And so there's the natural family connection. Of Palestinians in Israel directly visiting relatives within Gaza. But that's a conception that Israel is not going to allow its Palestinian Israelis to hold, because if they conceive of people related within a national identity connected to Gaza, then they conceive of people within the West Bank. All of a sudden you have the shrugging off of the Shackling Israeli colonization, new definitions of nation. Palestinian resistance has been strongest when it's incorporated the majority of its population. And so what's highly interesting about that is that with the boycott movement, you're providing a direct dialogue between solidarity activists and the biggest portion of Palestinians. But what's interesting on the ground about it is that the boycott movement is becoming The framework and the form for joint struggle and for a future in the Middle East that, you know, both the radical Israelis and Palestinians unabashedly acknowledge is a Middle East without Zionism. It's a Middle East based on equal rights of all people. It's based on free interaction. And it has to do— I mean, everything with Canada's cutting of funding to UNRWA. And it speaks to the way that Canada develops its aid policy as its weapon of imperialism. And what happened was, after the Gaza War, you know, a year after, the siege is raging, Canada decides it's going to cut its funding to UNRWA in Gaza, one of the few major institutions, an institution that the Israelis bombed, one of the few major institutions that's distributing aid, It's had some sort of infrastructure for doing education, and part of that education program is, what do you know, consciousness development and Palestinian discussion of identity, which is obviously something that Canada is wanting to help Israel erase. So it cut its funding. But where did it put that money? And this is what's interesting. It put it into PA security. And I didn't— and the PA security has been running a torture campaign. Yeah. A well-exposed torture campaign, even in Vanity Fair as of 2 years ago, against any form of political opposition. As I pointed out, they've started to recently go after the boycott movement for incarceration, primarily Hamas activists that are in jail and some Islamic Jihad, but Palestinian leftists are getting rounded up, anyone who's sort of posing a systematic threat to a maintained system of collaboration and apartheid. And a substantive threat to occupation that isn't within the PA's club, and class club at that. They're incarcerating and torturing, often with the same methods that the Israelis use in their jails. 2 possible things: the Israelis could potentially be training them. Haven't seen evidence on that. Could also be the fact that these were people that fought in the First Intifada. Went to Israeli jails, were tortured in Israeli prison, and they're now carrying out the torture of their jailers. And Canada is directly involved in this. And I talked to Al-Haq, which is a Palestinian legal human rights organization in the West Bank. It's part of the International Association of Jurists. And they were saying the main reason that torture is continuing, they've documented it, they've told the PA, they've told the Americans, it's all under the Dayton Plan. They've told the international community, every party is aware that the Palestinian Authority security forces are primarily a political institution that uses torture as its main political apparatus to dissuade a Palestinian population from reforming its national struggle. That they're actively using their aid To build that security apparatus and ingrain its message and its lessons onto Palestinian consciousness. And that's what Canadian aid does in Palestine. So the first speaker is going to be Farouk Burney. He's the director of Al-Fakhura, an international campaign to defend the education rights of Palestinian students living in Gaza and the West Bank.

Greta Berlin: He was transporting 65 computers to students in Gaza.

Jesse Rosenfeld: He's been involved in nonprofit and activist work for the last 10 years in both North America and the Middle East.

Farooq Burney: So I boarded the ship, the Mavi Marmara, in Anatolia. Most of the other people had boarded the ship in Istanbul a few days earlier, and then the ship was actually docked in Anatolia, and the reason for that was that we were We were waiting for other ships to come and join, ships coming from Greece, ships coming from other places to join us in international waters, and that was going to be sort of a rendezvous point where we would all meet in international waters. So we waited in Antalya for about 2 days for all these ships to be coordinated, and 2 days later we set sail for Gaza. We arrived in international Yeah. Waters, which was about maybe a day past Cyprus, and that's where we docked and we were waiting for other ships to join us. That process also took very long because countries such as Cyprus and other places were not allowing these ships to pass through. But we stayed there for about 2 days in the water, and that's where Kevin's ship, which was Challenger II, also broke down, and this is where we took on additional passengers on the ship. Finally, 2 days later, we set sail from Haifa with a complete flotilla, which comprised of 6 ships in all. 3 of these ships were cargo ships. The other 3 were passenger ships, and the Mavi Marmara being the largest.

Jesse Rosenfeld: How many people were on board?

Farooq Burney: that what the situation currently is, that what they've declared is that 8 kilometers within waters, that is where the blockade starts for Gaza. As we set sail, we got information from the Israeli forces that they've actually extended that to 60 kilometers. So they would be intercepting us at 60 kilometers, which again was very surprising. So the plan was that we wanted We wanted to be in that area during daytime in order for any activity to take place. We could see, we could negotiate, we could talk, or whatever was in store. But one message that was constantly relayed was that the Israeli army had said that we will not attack, we will not attack the ships, but we will stop them, whatever that meant. At that point, we didn't understand what that meant. I'm sorry, what did you say? Finally, on May 31st at 12:30 a.m., we received— this is when we're about close to 100 kilometers away from Gaza— we received a message from— or our captain received a message from the Israeli Army or Israeli Navy asking us to identify ourselves and identify our location.

Sherif Fam: Oh, my God.

Farooq Burney: We are heading to Gaza. This is a humanitarian ship. We have humanitarian cargo, and this has people from the humanitarian community. They responded by saying that you are heading into forbidden waters, so please turn back or change your course. The response was from the captain is, please identify to us coordinates. What do you exactly mean by forbidden waters? —been waters, because according to our information, we're in international waters. No information was provided. Thereafter, at about 1:00, the passengers were informed that the captain has spotted about 12 Navy ships that were closing in on the flotilla.

Sherif Fam: Yeah.

Farooq Burney: And this is when we were told to put down or to wear our life jackets, because anything is possible at this time. At this point in time, there was somewhat of a panic on the ship. We did not know what was going to happen. At a distance, we saw some lights that were not the lights of our ships, but these were perhaps the Israeli ships. Shortly after, the captain announced that still what we've done is actually we've changed course slightly, so in order for us to remain in international waters, so we're not heading towards the 60-kilometer zone that they had established. We were asked to go down to the main area, try to get some rest, because we're not anticipating any engagement for at least the next 3, 4 hours. I guess that was determined by the distance of the ships. At about 3:30 in the morning, I was awoken by one of my colleagues who was with me, and he said that the captain is telling all the passengers to put on their life jackets. These 12 ships They're closing in very fast. 4:00, 4:00 a.m. is prayer time, which is— it was Fajr time. And the call for prayer was called at about 4:10. The prayer was held. At this point in time, many of the passengers were actually stationed around the boundary of Mavi Marmara, and they had— They were basically on the lookout for any possible attacks. So they had set up floodlights in order for us to see. We could see ships in sort of— in a distance. But anything that was going to come closer, they were keeping an eye on that. At about 4:15, as people were finishing praying, people started yelling. They said, there they are. We see them. I personally looked overboard, and I saw— 2 army ships. They were small kind of assault ships, green in color. Each one of them was carrying about 20 commandos, all dressed in black with machine guns, face covered. And they were approaching very fast towards our ship. As they came closer, people on our ship, they had water hoses. They basically started spraying them with water. Simultaneously, a helicopter came in, and at this point we started hearing gunshots. What they were gunshots, they were— some people say that was live ammunition, some say these were rubber bullets. But as these ships closed in, we could hear the things being fired onto the ship. As they came close, they threw in a smoke and a sound grenade, which was a huge explosion on the ship. What was the smoke? And this is when women and some other people started yelling and screaming out of fear. At this point in time, the helicopter also came down and they tried to lure people onto the main bridge. Now, the organizers had basically gathered around the bridge because they knew that they were going to try to take over the bridge and try to either stop the ship or to change its direction. So this is where sort of this hand-to-hand combat Combat broke out, as you see in some of the footage. And right after they lowered about 5, 6 people, I guess they saw that, you know, the situation was very intense, and the helicopter left. 3 or 4 minutes later, a second helicopter came, and they tried to lower more people towards the stern of the ship. And there were a lot of people there, as well. So that kind of also failed. Third time when the mission came, The helicopter mission, this is when they physically started shooting at the people. And when I was there, I personally saw one man getting hit with a bullet on the chest. You know, he fell in front of us. Myself and there was another doctor, we were together, an Egyptian doctor. We approached him. We opened up his life jacket, opened up his shirt, and you could clearly see a gunshot wound to his chest. And there was blood coming out. And at this point in time, it was very chaotic. There was bullets flying all over. There was sound. There was gunshot sound. We didn't know what was happening, where these shots were coming from, whether they were being fired from the small Zodiacs or they were being fired from the helicopter. At one point, we had to leave this man lying there because we just couldn't stand up. We left and then And shortly after we came back, we tried to lift up this man. He was a big person. He was very heavy. So a few of us pulled him inside. And, you know, we could clearly see that he's dying. And shortly after, he died. About 45 minutes into this, we heard the announcement by the organizers saying that the ship has been taken by Israelis. Please, we're requesting everyone to go down to the main sitting area and stay calm. I was in the main sitting area. The ship has been taken. So all of us, we went down to this area. We basically closed all the doors and barricaded ourselves. Outside, we could see that the commandos had come in with guns, and their faces were covered. They were all around the ship. They were on board at this time. And through the window, they were pointing their guns. You could see their laser beams, you know, going all over. In my case, I was sitting— my back I was afraid to turn my back to the window, and even if I looked back, they would point the gun to me and tell me to look back. So I was afraid that, you know, they were probably going to shoot me in the head or something. We kept sitting there, and the organizers announced to them, saying that, you know, we don't have any weapons, we are not fighting you, please, we have injured people here, we need medical help. And where I was at this point, we had 2 dead bodies there, and they were There were other people who were bleeding. And so for about 1 hour we pleaded to the Israeli army asking them to please provide medical assistance. One of the women also came up with a poster handwritten saying, SOS, we need your help. We have people dying here. We need medical help. And they kept on just telling her to go away and go away. Finally, after 1 hour, they opened up the door and they were pointing their guns at guns, us. And you were there? and they said that, we want you to bring out your injured, one person at a time. And they actually selected 2 women to bring out the injured people. So gradually we started bringing out the injured people. Simultaneously, they told each one of us to come out with our hands on our head. So we did that. As soon as we went out there, they frisked us, they checked us, they took out all the belongings that we had, and they basically tied our hands. And then what happened? Hands behind our back and told us to go to the main deck. So, one person at a time, we went up to the main deck. We were made to kneel down on our knees facing the wall. When I arrived there, this was about daytime, and I saw around me at least 6 Army and Navy ships, along with at least a dozen small Zodiacs that were basically patrolling our ship. And at this point, the ship was moving. So, we were led to the main deck. We were made to kneel down. For at least 6 hours, we stayed in that position. People were not allowed to go to the bathroom. People were basically passing out. You know, they were falling on their sides. Some of the people, their hands were tied extremely tight. And it was a very, very difficult situation. At about 1:30 in the afternoon— so this happened at close to between 7:30 and 8 o'clock, close Close to about 1:30, they told us all to get up and go down to the main floor, to the main sitting area where we had already been sitting. We went down and saw that they had basically ransacked the whole place. They had taken down the curtains. They had pulled the seats apart. Our luggage was all over the place. They were, I guess, checking for explosives or whatever they were looking for. And they told us to sit down, still our hands tied. Now, I'd just like to mention here that While we were up on the deck, helicopters were continuously over us. They were transporting more soldiers. They were taking some of the injured and the dead bodies. Most of the people who were transported were the ones with gunshot wounds. So they were taken away. At about 1:30, as I said, we came down. They told us to sit down, and we just sat there with our hands tied. At about 6:00, we reached Ashdod, which is a port city. What was the name of the ship? We could see land at about 6 o'clock, 5:30, 6 o'clock. As we got to the port, they made an announcement. Some of the people came into the ship. I guess these were people from immigration. They said that they're from the Ministry of Interior. They said the army has done its job. Now you'll be handed over to the Ministry of Interior as you go on board. And these people were, I guess, some very professional, very well-dressed people. And they Perfect were very polite. English, very polite. They said to us that, you know, from here you'll be taken outside within 20 minutes. You will be provided with medical care. You'll be provided with food. And right after that, you'll be deported to your relevant countries, either by land or by air. Now, at this point in time, we had thought that there was about 3 people killed, because that's what we saw. As you might know, that we had one of the members of the Knesset with us, Hanin Zobi. She was basically— they couldn't arrest her, so she was a liaison between us and the soldiers. At this point, she came to us and told her that about 19 people had been killed. And that was a huge shock for us, because we couldn't— you know, we had seen 3 dead people. And she said 19 have been killed and close to 100 have been injured. How many of them were children? So that was a big shock for us. We stayed sitting in that position inside once the ship was docked for another 4 to 5 hours. In my case, about 4 hours. Kevin was there for about 12 hours. Finally, they processed us out. Once again, they tied us extremely tight in my case. You know, they looked at my passport. They said, well, you're Canadian. Have you told them that you're Canadian? I said, never mind.

Sherif Fam: And then they let us out.

Farooq Burney: And at this point, they had tied my hands extremely tight, and I told the guard, I said, could you please loosen this, because my hands are turning purple, there's no blood circulation? He looked at me and he said, no, and he said, enjoy yourself, and he just sort of kicked me out. And so as we got out, there was a huge crowd there. People were cheering, people were happy. There was media, there was press. And so for each person, we had And one young soldier from the Israeli Navy and one policeman who basically took us into the processing area. Once we got there, again, once again they looked at my passport. They saw that I worked in Qatar. I was born in Pakistan. So that was kind of confusing for them. So they said to me, what were you doing going to Gaza? And I said, well, we're on a humanitarian mission. And his response was, do you believe in the state of Israel? Wow. I just kind of looked at him, and he said, "Well, we're a humanitarian country. Can't you see that?" So I just sort of stayed quiet. I said, "Yes, I guess so." And so thereafter, I was taken into another area. It was strip search. They looked at everything that I had, opened up my wallet, searched me, and they said, "You're going to be deported. So here's a piece of paper. Sign this." I said, "What if I don't sign this?" They said, "Well, then you'll be put in." So you sign this and you're going to the airport. I said, all right. So I signed it. Then they took us, many of us, to another sitting area. We sat there for another, you know, close to maybe 2 hours or so. Now, this one young guy who was with me, he's a young, young soldier, and he was holding onto my arm really tight. And I said, look, could you please let go? I mean, I'm not going to run anywhere. So he let go of my arm, and then he said— he opened up my cuffs and he And said, he said, I'm only going to open this if you're going to behave yourself. I said, yeah, sure, I'll behave myself. So he opened up my cuffs. After about 2 hours, they told us to get up, took us outside, and put us in a prison bus. Next thing I knew— at this point, I hadn't slept for 2 days. As soon as I got in the bus, I fell asleep. I woke up. Next thing I knew, I was in a prison. We got out of the prison— we got out of the bus, taken into a main area. This was a common area that had prison cells around. And they basically told us, go inside the prison cell, go to sleep, and we'll talk to you in the morning. They brought in some fruits and vegetables and told us we wanted to eat something. Many of us said we want to see a lawyer, we want to see our embassy. They said, we don't know anything. I asked them if I wanted to call my family. They said no. And they basically said, you know, go to the cell. So we went into the cell. Maybe slept for about 2, 3 hours, got up again in the morning, asked the same question. We want to see a lawyer. We want to see our embassy. No response. At about 10 o'clock in the morning, they told everybody to get back into the cells. We went into the cells and they locked the cells. And next thing we knew, we had a group of students, no more than perhaps 18, 19, or 20 girls and boys who came in. And basically these were trainees of some sort in this They spent the entire day there looking at us, examining us, questioning some of us. And this went on for the whole day. So basically we were locked in. Later in the afternoon, I heard somebody say, is there somebody here from Canada? So I kind of got up, went to the door. I said, yes, I'm Canadian. And there were 2 people from the Canadian Embassy. And they said, are you Harut Perni? And I said, yes. They said, what are you doing here? I said, well, I'm here. They said, because they told us they deported you in the morning. Morning, and according to what the information they provided us, you've been deported to Canada. Well, I said, I'm still here. They said, well, it's by coincidence that we found you, otherwise we would have not known where you were. And then they showed me Kevin's photograph and said, do you know who this is? Do you know where he is? I said, I have no idea where Kevin is. So then they left, and that was the last time I heard from the Canadian embassy. We stayed locked in. For the whole night. 2 o'clock in the morning, they woke us up again and sent all the Turkish people out. So there was a majority of Turkish people. They took all the Turks out. Our understanding was, when we got in, being Canadian, American, British, that probably we'd be the first people out. But actually, it was the Turks who went out first. Before that, it was also the Jordanians who went out. The Jordanian ambassador personally came into the prison, made sure all the Jordanians Jordanians were out. He took with him all the people who did not have diplomatic ties with Israel, so people from Algeria, people from Indonesia, Malaysia, Pakistan. All these people were taken by the Jordanian ambassador. Also, we had people from the ICRC, International Committee of Red Cross. They came in, gave us numbers and things. This is when we started to panic a little bit. We thought, we're here for the long haul, you know, given that they're giving us numbers and all that. Anyway, 2 o'clock in the morning, they took out all the Turkish people, and the Turkish people left. Early in the morning, then they gathered us all, the remaining people, myself, Canadian, British, you know, Greek, and they all took us together to this one area, and they said, you're going to the airport. I said, okay, fine. Then they put us in these buses, and they took us to the airport. When we got to the airport, it was actually one When we left the prison, it's the first time we saw there was media all around. We reached the airport. There was a lot of media there. There was a lot of press there. They took us right inside the airport, processed us, told people to sign papers. Many people didn't want to do it. Got into a— there was even a fight that broke out at the airport. One colleague who was from Ireland, they actually beat him. His head was swollen. And he was arrested? It was whatever. So basically from there onwards, we went onto the planes. There were 3 Turkish planes, and Turkey had basically said that we want every single person that came on this ship back on these planes, and these 3 planes would not leave until and unless every single nationality— Whether these people are injured, whether they're dead or they're alive, everybody has to be on these planes. So we basically sat on those planes for 12 hours until every single person came. So now when I look and sort of think in retrospect, you know, I think if it wasn't for the Turks, I would still be in Israel.

Sherif Fam: Me too.

Farooq Burney: And heaven. So this whole saga went on for another 12 hours. Right after that, you know, we We flew. We arrived in Istanbul. And, you know, that's— again, you know, there were 2 Canadian officials who were there to meet Kevin and I. I didn't know at this point where Kevin and Rifat, the other Canadian, whether dead or alive. I kept asking about them. Nobody knew where they were. But apparently, fortunately, Kevin was on the other plane. So when we arrived, I found out that he's alive, Rifat as well, also. So we were received by the Canadian embassy there.

Sherif Fam: Thank you.

Farooq Burney: And then thereafter, I— Qatari embassy was also there to meet me. They had put me up in a hotel room, and I took the next flight to Doha. Now, just very quickly, you know, I'd like to— I've talked about the journey. When we came back, one of the things that we did is the 3 of us, we wrote to Prime Minister Harper, basically saying to him what has happened. You know why were we treated like this? Why did the Canadian government did not interfere or help us? Or or you know why did Canada did not condemn the attack? We never heard back from anyone, and these this letter was published in in these in these newspapers and outlets. Just you know talking about education, this is basically the UN Declaration of Human Rights Article 26 that that everyone has right to. Education, and this is what we're promoting and pushing for as part of KURA. This is an ongoing thing. You know, the Futela incident is one incident. A year and a half ago, we saw what happened at Operation Cast Lead. Close to 1,400 people were killed. 18 schools were destroyed. 200 schools were damaged. And the name of KURA actually comes from one of the Nerva schools that was That was in the center of an attack where 4 East Jerusalem students died. So we've taken that name from there. Education, the state of education in the West Bank and Gaza is, you know, we've seen it, we've read about it, and, you know, we know what is happening to academics, to young people, where they're not allowed access to education, which again is a very dangerous thing. The situation in Gaza right now in terms of education Classrooms are crowded, there's inadequate supplies, there are damaged schools, and children are malnourished. The blockade regarding education, these are some of the items that are, that are not allowed inside Gaza. So notebooks, glass for windows, pencils, desks, computer parts, construction material for schools. None of this stuff is allowed so far inside Gaza.