Stone Cold Justice - Palestinian Children Tortured in Israeli Prisons - Documentary (2014)

Speaker 1: This land was promised to the Jewish nation by God.

Speaker 2: For more than 40 years, Israel has controlled the West Bank. But now there are serious claims that Palestinian children are being systematically targeted, arrested and jailed in the battle to control this disputed territory.

Gerard Horton: And it's that fear and intimidation that makes this system work so effectively well. You never know when there's going to be the bang on the Let me say this very clearly.

Speaker 4: There is no such policy. A policy to create fear? There is no such thing.

Speaker 2: A new generation of hatred in the making. Welcome to Four Corners. Imagine, in a major Australian city, or in any other civilized society, regular late-night raids on family homes, by heavily armed soldiers to take away children in blindfolds and handcuffs for interrogation. Imagine a military prison where the inmates include children as young as 12, in shackles. Such is the distortion of life in a region of broken peace plans and deeply embedded hostilities between 2.5 million Palestinians and 350,000 Israeli settlers after more than 40 years of military occupation. A UNICEF report last year found that Palestinian children had been threatened under interrogation by Israeli security forces with death, physical violence, solitary confinement, and sexual assault against themselves or a family member while demanding confessions for alleged offences, most commonly stone throwing. UNICEF estimates that over the past decade, an average of 700 children a year have been detained. In tonight's story, a joint investigation by Four Corners and The Australian newspaper outlines the way justice is practised with regard to the children of the West Bank. The reporter is The Australian's Middle East correspondent, Jon Lyons.

Speaker 1: A peaceful evening in a small Palestinian village in the West Bank.

John Lyons: A 14-year-old boy and his family sleep. Suddenly, the night is shattered. The Israeli army is making a raid. Their target: the boy who they claim has thrown stones at them. His mother recalls that moment.

Speaker 1: واحد على الباب وواحد تاني وواحد كل جندي على باب غرفة فأنا بحكي له كتان شو بدك فيه هذا حكى لي قس مرة أسكت وصاروا يضربوا فيه ويسحبوه من الافراش حكينا أنا بدي يلبس أعطيته أنا الجكيت عشان يلبس صار يتمجلز الجندي صار يضحك هات هات الجكيت أنا بلبسه بحكي له Qusay Zamara insists he's done nothing wrong, but this begins an 18-day nightmare.

Speaker 6: مكة مكة كبيرة عشان كان فيها أسلاك كهرباء هيك مصلب الكهرباء كان ديك هربني فيها وكان كل حين دبني على الأرض يضربني شغلات هيك فيما كان معه بربيج عصى يضربني فيها.

John Lyons: At the age of 15, the life of this boy was also turned upside down.

Speaker 7: أنا مش ردتش لأنه أعرف حالي مش عامل شيء. تخه أجم فيه ثلاث مططات أربعة. ما ديافق عليك كمان قلبه. شمطت كمان فيه في كمان قلبه.

John Lyons: فاتيم فوز would spend the next eighty-two days in prison, beginning with an interrogation.

Speaker 7: كان يعني حميم عصي كهربا وضربوني فيه. كانوا لما الضابط في منهم واحد شرح الرفح هيك مشحبرين كل ياتهم هيك يعني زي إدغام أو إشي ويحكي معاي ويكشر ويخوفي ويضربني في الكهرباء في ساقفات كهرباء إيه كان يضرب.

John Lyons: as a fourteen-year-old Islam Dar. Omar Ayoub has also come up against Israel's security services. Part of the new front line in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. They're among the 700 Palestinian children brought each year before Israel's military court.

Gerard Horton: You never know when there's going to be the bang on the door in the middle of the night, and soldiers are going to demand that you bring out your children, and one of them is taken away.

John Lyons: Onto this frontline has walked Australian lawyer Gerald Horne. He left his practice as a commercial law barrister in Sydney 6 years ago and is now leading a campaign to end a system under which Palestinian children have fewer rights than Israeli children, including being subjected to nighttime arrests by heavily armed soldiers.

Gerard Horton: That has a paralyzing effect. And it's that fear and intimidation that makes this system work so effectively well, with relatively few soldiers on the ground. And so, it also makes it quite a cost-effective occupation.

Speaker 4: Let me say this very clearly. There is no such policy. A policy to create fear? There is no such thing. The only policy is to maintain law and order. That's all. If there's no violence, there is no enforcement.

John Lyons: The president of the United States. But U.S. President Barack Obama told Israelis last year that this problem will not resolve itself. And put yourself in their shoes. Look at the world through their eyes. It is not fair that a Palestinian child cannot grow up in a state of their own, living their entire lives with the presence of a foreign army that controls the movements not just of those young people, but their parents, their grandparents, every single day. However, leaders of Israel's settler movement, like Daniella Weiss, do not agree.

Speaker 1: We came to a land where there were other people living. But this land was promised to the Jewish nation by God. All the other people who live here will accept Jewish sovereignty in the Promised Land. This is the only way I see it. So, those who accept it, live nicely. Those who do not accept it, go away. I'm not against the Jewish people.

John Lyons: Those confrontations occur mostly near settlements. In 1967, Israel began occupying the West Bank, which is also known as the Palestinian Territories. Since then, settlements, widely regarded as illegal under international law, have come to dominate the West Bank. Israel insists they are not illegal.

Gerard Horton: So, take a situation involving 2 children in the West Bank throwing stones, one a Palestinian child, one an Israeli child living in the settlements. The Palestinian child will be prosecuted in a military jurisdiction with far fewer rights and protections, whereas his Israeli counterpart, living sometimes 500 meters away, will be prosecuted in a juvenile justice system which meets international standards and complies— is the sort of system you would expect in any Western-style democracy.

Maurice Hirsch: It is, without question, very problematic when you see that there are possibly very young children being arrested in the early hours of the morning.

John Lyons: But there was a case— Lieutenant Colonel Maurice Hirsch is the Israeli Army officer who oversees prosecutions at the military court.

Maurice Hirsch: It's unfortunately an operational necessity, because of the widespread disturbance of the peace that occur once we try to carry out the arrests during the day, and the reluctance of the Palestinian population to cooperate, a priori, with the law enforcement agency.

John Lyons: To understand Israel's 2 different legal systems, it He helps to come to Hebron, the largest Palestinian city in the West Bank. Here, 800 Israeli settlers live in the center of Hebron, surrounded by 180,000 Palestinians. This used to be a thriving Palestinian market. The effect of Israel's occupation is obvious. Now it's a ghost town. Israeli soldiers will not allow Palestinians to walk along these Palestinians say they've been forced out and many buildings taken over by the settlers, protected by soldiers. This Palestinian man wants to walk along this street.

Speaker 7: I am from Hebron. I can, or I cannot?

Speaker 6: You cannot.

Speaker 7: The first time I visit here, I can?

John Lyons: No, you can't. Can I ask why? Why can't the Palestinians walk this way? This is the order I got. Why, as a Palestinian, why can't you walk there?

Speaker 7: I asked him that. I want to pass to go to the cemetery to visit my father's grave. He said that you cannot. You must—

John Lyons: I just find it interesting that we, as foreigners, and I, as an Australian, can walk there, but you two are Palestinians. In the largest Palestinian city in the West Bank, and you cannot walk. When we visited Hebron, it was early morning. Many Palestinian children were walking to school. Suddenly, we heard tear gas. We saw tear gas being fired. The Israeli army told us it was in response to stone throwing. We couldn't confirm this, but we saw these Israeli police assembling. Then they fired tear gas towards the children. We saw no provocation from the children, who were trying to avoid the gas. The teachers said tear gas was fired here almost every day. Every day like this. And why do you think the Israelis do it?

Speaker 7: They told that they protect their settlements.

Speaker 9: But we want to study our children. In the last week, we take 3 to the hospitals from the gas.

John Lyons: We approached the police. We're from Australian television. We cannot talk with you. But can I just ask one thing? Excuse me. We've just been standing here now. Why did you fire the tear gas towards those children going to school?

Speaker 9: We cannot talk to you.

Speaker 6: We cannot talk to you.

Speaker 1: Thank you.

John Lyons: No, but they appear to be children going to school normally. Can I ask you why you fired this? Why are you taking it? Hebron has long been a flashpoint. What occurs openly here— one law for Israelis, one for Palestinians— is typical of the West Bank. According to Yehuda Shaul, who served here as an Israeli army commander—

Yehuda Shaul: The DNA of the military operations that we see in Hebron, we see all over the West Bank.

John Lyons: Yehuda Shaul founded Breaking the Silence, 950 current and former Israeli combat soldiers trying to end human rights abuses.

Yehuda Shaul: I've never broken into houses in the middle of the night here in Jerusalem and tear apart apartments. But in Hebron, where I served for 14 months, 24/7, that's what we've done, in order to make our presence felt.

Speaker 7: The stone will kill somebody. No, of course not. But he will say he's going to stop it.

John Lyons: Last July, one case shocked many. On the streets of Hebron, five-year-old Wadia Maswade was picked up by soldiers. An Israeli settler had claimed that he had thrown a stone at him. His friend tried to help. صار صار رعاية تخفت عليه ضلت لماسك إيده وسجيش سحبه مني ودفعني جيش على البيت. أنا قلت له تخافش أنا معك ومسكين من الخوف عباطني أنا سئلت عليه شيء ضعيف بس مسكت حالي دمعت نسله مسكت حالي وذلتني عابطة وماسكة كنت الحاب آه.

Speaker 1: أجلس السيارة أوبال قلب الدم لا تخلي حجر اللي هو يطوف في حجر السيارة اللي هو اللي روح أنا في ولا تخلي حجر.

John Lyons: The boy is taken by six soldiers. He was released after two hours. One settler making one allegation is able to activate this level of military intervention. Against a five-year-old, when his father intervenes, he is blindfolded.

Speaker 7: هيك الجخل دا وين بقولك ما إحنا عارفين إنه إن كلهم بيعرفوا الأهل المنطقة سكان المنطقة هاد بس سجد شغل أسلوب صعارة فيهم ويدل بتحجيج بس سجد هذا شغله.

John Lyons: When you see an Israeli soldier in the street, what do you think?

Speaker 1: No, بخوف بينهم.

John Lyons: And what happened when they took you into the van? What happened then?

Yehuda Shaul: Look, from my service, I actually don't remember children. Like, you know, I have some memories of Palestinian children when you burst into houses in the middle of the night and children start to cry or whatever. But these are the vague memories I have from my service, because just the idea That there is children and adults is not an idea that you have there.

Speaker 7: OK?

Yehuda Shaul: When you're in uniform, it's them and us.

Gabi Lasky: I want people to think what they would do if their 5-year-old child was being taken by an occupier's army, even by your local police. Gabi Lasky is a prominent Israeli lawyer who defends If a 5-year-old was being held by an authority that is not you, you would do anything in order to try to get your child back. Military courts are the long arm of occupation. We are not talking about a justice system. Courts of justice. We're talking about courts of occupation.

Yehuda Shaul: Look, I grew up believing that our actions as a military in the occupied territories are here to protect Israel from terrorism. What I've learned from my 3 years of service and 9 years of activism in Breaking the Silence, after reading testimonies of over 950 soldiers, is that the main story here Is about maintaining our absolute military control over Palestinians.

John Lyons: Palestinians say the soldiers are working in concert with the settlers. This vision, shot by a. A Swedish documentary maker shows settlers attacking Palestinian children while soldiers stand by.

Yehuda Shaul: Look!

Speaker 1: You see?

Speaker 4: You see?

Speaker 1: You see?

Speaker 7: I see!

Maurice Hirsch: I see!

Gabi Lasky: Got him!

Speaker 7: Okay.

Speaker 12: All right.

John Lyons: And here, a settler A settler fires live ammunition, hitting a Palestinian youth in the side of the head. Again, soldiers stand by.

Yehuda Shaul: When we see settlers attacking a Palestinian, our orders are not to intervene.

John Lyons: Palestinian children face danger on 2 fronts: night arrests from the army and violence from settlers. To get to school each day, these children need to walk past this settler outpost. Attacks from settlers have become so bad that the army escorts the children. But school has finished early, and the army has not turned up. Today, the children are on their own. Their only protection is this Israeli volunteer, who hopes by carrying a camera, he will deter settlers. We are here to protest. How do you feel, though? You're a Jewish Israeli. How do you feel about this?

Speaker 9: I can't describe this in words, because I feel myself as partly a Holocaust survivor, because my grandfather was a Holocaust survivor. He was a partisan. He ran away for a few years, and all his family died in the Holocaust. I don't get it, how, from one who made— who was suffering from all those stuff, we became people that are making other people suffering for our behavior. It's— it's break me. It's really break me.

Speaker 7: I'm sorry.

John Lyons: But the suffering is on both sides. 3-year-old Adel Biton has brain damage and may never recover.

Speaker 1: 8 months ago, I was driving back from my parents' home, back to my home in Ya'qub, when Palestinian terrorists threw large building stones on my car. The stones The building stones hit Adel's head and also caused me to bump into a truck. We're fighting together to get her back to life. I know— I don't think that it's fair for her to sleep here in the bed and don't do things like children in her age.

Speaker 7: It's not fair.

John Lyons: When someone throws stones or blocks, building blocks, Whether they're Palestinian or Jewish, do you think it should be the same law for both?

Speaker 1: For both, because we need to highlight the words: stones kills.

Gabi Lasky: Stones kills.

Maurice Hirsch: Her 3-year-old child is basically— is still in hospital, and it's unlikely that she will recover from that event. That is terrorism.

John Lyons: Lieutenant Colonel Maurice Hirsch says arrests have been made following the attack.

Maurice Hirsch: We're now dealing with 5 minors who threw stones at some 20-odd cars on a fast road at nighttime. They stood as a group at the side of the road and pounded the passing cars with stones. They hit a number of cars on the way.

Gerard Horton: If you throw a stone at a vehicle traveling at 70 kilometers an hour, that can kill. There's no question it can be very dangerous. And that's why I think it's so important to look at the evidence. The evidence collected by the Israeli organization B'Tselem shows that since November 2000, 4 people have been killed in the West Bank from people throwing stones at vehicles. One was a Palestinian. 3 were Israeli settlers. 2 of those were infants.

John Lyons: While stone-throwing can indeed be serious, critics say it's been used as a catch-all charge to arrest Palestinian children. When Khusey Zamara was woken by soldiers at 2:00 a.m., he had no idea what was ahead of him.

Speaker 6: كان دروفيه شلالية عبطني كفوف عودشي فسحبوني من الجلوس ورفعوني وأخذوني من الفرشة.

Speaker 12: He saw soldiers in in his bedroom, which was a very frightening experience for him. One of the soldiers kicked him with his boot. He grabbed him from his t-shirt, pulled him out of bed, and dragged him outside. Kosai watched his father totally helpless, his mother crying and shouting, unable to do anything, his younger siblings. His sisters, totally devastated by the by what was going on.

John Lyons: Kusai was taken by military vehicle to an interrogation center.

Speaker 6: وطلعت السيارة وكان يضرب فيه. مرضي خليني لا استعمل حمام لا نعم لا آكل ولا إشي. كظل واقف ممنوع تحرك. كل ما أسوي إشي يضربني.

Speaker 12: Because I wanted to know what the interrogator wanted him to confess to. And he said, I want you to confess to throwing stones. And he said, how do you expect me to confess to something I didn't do? And then the interrogator got very upset, and he actually slapped him with a piece of plastic hose that he had. And he was bleeding. And threatened to electrocute him.

Speaker 6: دخلني صار يغلط علي ويضرب في. قال لي يا بتعترف يا ما من نزل فيك ضرب من جيب أهلك كان من ضربهم معاك من كسرهم من نزل فيك أنت ما يضلش تمي.

John Lyons: Finally, Kusai gave in.

Speaker 6: فضل قريب ساعة ساعتين لغاية ما اعترفت قلت له أه ضربت فحين يتأخذوني قال لي طيب. جابوا وراق دخلني عنده على مكتب طالوا وراق وكتب على الكمبيوتر شوي طالوا وراق أعطاني يعني قال لي وقع قلت له شو هذول؟ قال لي هذول اعترافاتك أبصر شو كتب بس هو كتب عني أشياء ثانية يعني كان كاتب إني ضرب مستوطني وبنت وشغلات تيك بتحس داخلك يعني لو الجند بين إيديك؟ دخل قبة موت.

John Lyons: After the arrests, children are brought to facilities such as this, which dot the West Bank and are used by the army and police to imprison and interrogate. Threats are often made at these centers.

Gerard Horton: You'll be subjected to violence if you don't confess. You'll be detained for an extended period of time if you don't confess. Again, the intelligence is usually very good, so the interrogator will know if that child's father has a work permit, for example, to work inside Israel. If that's the case, the threats sometimes are of the nature of, we will revoke your father's work permit unless you confess.

John Lyons: Could you show me what happened to you? When Fatih Mahfouz was returning home, he came across confrontations between the army and youth. He says he was not involved, but was taken away for 82 days. He was just 15.

Speaker 7: نحن يوم أنا ما اعترفتش ودانع غرفة فيها زي صليب زي هذا الصليب وشبحني عليه حين نواقف على أصابعي ليت نواقف ويعني الثقل كله يطلع الكلبشات. زي حدا يد وعرف أصابه مشبوح أنا كنت ظل يضرب فيه.

Gerard Horton: Interrogator started yelling at him, and then what Fathi says is that he was then placed on some sort of wooden device on the wall, similar in shape to a cross, although it had two legs. He says that his legs were shackled to this. Wooden structure. His hands were shackled to the structure, and he was left there for several hours.

Speaker 7: حتى في خشب منها انكسرت من كتر الهزولها. وظل يضرب فيه. اللي هو بيصير يقول لي شو بدك بدكش تعترف؟ تقول له بعترف إيش عملته ما عملتهش يعني. اللي هو بيصير يقول لا أنت عامل أشياء. تقول أنا مش عامل وظل يضرب فيه.

John Lyons: Fatih says after five hours he was taken down from the structure.

Speaker 7: الحين قعدت أتوجهها، صار يطلع من ثم إشي زي رغوة بيضة. أجو اثنين حملوني قلولوا على أساس، بس أدري كم تعلي بطلت أعرف أتنفس. أخذني أخذوني، في نفس يعني في نفس. منطقة الكنت أنا فيها في نفس العمارة كانت فيها اللي هذا زي عيادي هيك صغيرة فوتني يقول لي وين الوجع يسير يعص عليه ويضرب عليه يسير يتخوت عليه.

John Lyons: From his experience interviewing hundreds of Palestinian children, Gerard Horton says one interrogator stands out.

Gerard Horton: This particular interrogator specializes in threatening children. with rape. And he makes very specific allegations. He will name someone who apparently is waiting outside the interrogation room, who will, if the child doesn't confess, will come in and rape that child.

John Lyons: The Australian lawyer found one boy's testimony particularly disturbing.

Gerard Horton: What he says happened is somebody then put some food— he thinks it was bread— on the top of his head And then the dog was brought over and made to eat the food off his head. He was terrified by this experience. He could hear the dog next to him drooling all over him. He was fearful that he was going to be bitten at any moment. Then someone put food— he was dressed, but someone put food on his genitals, and the dog was then made to eat the food. And then he was stripped naked.

John Lyons: After interrogation, children are brought here for trial, Ofer Military Prison near Jerusalem. The army would not let Four Corners film inside. I've been behind these walls 3 times. I saw children shuffling across the courtyard, handcuffed and shackled. Some hearings lasted 60 seconds. I saw one boy shout the name of his prison so his mother would know where he was being held. I saw the judge convict some children without even once looking at them. Through it all, what I saw was a conveyor belt of convicted children.

Gerard Horton: I think, perhaps to give you some indication of how efficient, from a military perspective, this system is, According to the military court's own records, their annual report, the courts have a conviction rate of around 99.74%.

John Lyons: Typically, a Palestinian boy convicted of throwing stones will be sentenced to about 3 months' imprisonment. The United Nations Children's Agency, UNICEF, last year released a scathing report on Israel's system. It found that Palestinian children had been threatened with death, physical violence, solitary confinement, and sexual assault against themselves or a family member.

Gerard Horton: The report found that that ill treatment was widespread, systematic, and institutionalized throughout the system. From the moment that the child was arrested right up until the sentencing process.

Speaker 4: The natural reaction is that this is an intolerable— these are intolerable cases, and that I would like my authorities to do their utmost to make sure that this will not be repeated and that this will change. And I believe that this is precisely what we are doing.

John Lyons: Last month, under pressure from human rights groups, Israel stopped the longstanding practice of keeping children overnight in outdoor cages. Children had been kept freezing in the cages during snowstorms. While Israel appears to be making concessions, others argue this disguises a harsher reality. Four Corners has learnt that the Israeli security services The security services now have a new strategy. They bring Palestinian children as young as 12 to massive interrogation facilities like this one. The security services are now targeting the children as a way of gathering intelligence on their villages, including asking the children about their neighbors and members of their own family.

Gabi Lasky: I can see a pattern that Israel hasn't been able to put down the nonviolent movement in the occupied territories through violent means. So, the best way to do it is by incriminating those leaders. And the easiest way to do that, to achieve— to get those incriminations, is by arresting children, which are the weakest link.

John Lyons: So they're using children to gather intelligence?

Gabi Lasky: One hundred percent.

John Lyons: Islam Dar Ayub was fourteen when Israeli soldiers arrived at his house at two a.m.

Speaker 1: كنا إحنا نايمين ساعتين تين بالليل، فكان إنه يدقوا على الباب بشكل عنيف جداً وأوي جداً فتحنا الباب إنه تحركوا تحركوا كانوا إنه سلاح يعني على طول مسلط علينا فأنا. وقاس جداً إنه إنه ليش طيب ليش شوفي إحكونا شوفي شو عامل هذا الطفل شو كان إنه شاكت أسكت وضرب فيه في أخته في أبوه فوتون على البيت وسكروا وضرب غاز وضرب كنابل صوت.

John Lyons: Islam's arrest was part of a practice by the Israeli army known as mapping. Palestinian children are now regularly woken up at night, photographed and questioned about which bed they sleep in. This video shows Islam, on the right, and his brother being photographed by Israeli soldiers after being woken up.

Gabi Lasky: What the army has done is that they have come to All the houses in the village and ask for the children in the house to show them where they sleep. They take pictures of a child. They ask for their ID numbers, and they map them.

John Lyons: Three days after mapping this house, the army returns in a nighttime raid and arrests Islam.

Speaker 1: Yelled, yelled, yelled, yelled, yelled.

John Lyons: Later, police come for Islam's nine-year-old brother Karim.

Speaker 1: لا تلاصق.

Gabi Lasky: He was nine years old, I think, when he was first arrested, which is completely unacceptable even to the army authorities.

Speaker 7: شيخي نعم ناجي.

John Lyons: Islam's interrogation was filmed.

Speaker 7: اللي حكيت عنه في الإفادة اللي هو من المسؤولين.

John Lyons: It quickly becomes clear that what the authorities really want. Is information about the leaders of the nonviolent protest movement in the town, including Bassem Tamimi.

Speaker 7: The second is Danny Min. The third is Am Bassem. Muhammad Tamimi.

John Lyons: Enormous pressure can be applied during these interrogations.

Gerard Horton: You tell the child, "You can be released today if you just from time to time provide us with a little bit of information about." Who the troublemakers in the village are, or sometimes there's offers of money. Generally not a great deal of money, but the child can be offered money, mobile phone, threatened sometimes.

Speaker 9: They are trying to know information about the village and about the life of people, their families, their attitudes, the attitudes of the community, and all of these. And the most vicious and the most horrible thing, to push people to collaborate as collaborators with the occupiers, to put them under the stick-and-carrot process. If you reject this, if you are refusing this, You will be punished. You will stay longer in prison. So, this kind of converting a child, who's not responsible on his act, to be a collaborator, is not just helping in information gathering for the Israelis. It's breaking this child forever. I'm sorry.

Speaker 7: احترفت إنه بضرب إحجاره مين بضرب، بس صار المحقق يحكي اللي بدنا يحت كل هذا الإشي وبدنا يحت احتياجي الأسماء.

Speaker 4: There has to be a pattern because the interrogators will want to gather information about possible violence emerging from a certain area or from certain people, and I think that's perfectly legitimate to ask people. People who were arrested for being involved in violent actions, to ask them where they come from, why they have been involved in such violent actions, who sent them, and whether there are more people coming from the same place with the same intent.

John Lyons: No justice, no peace! Bassem Tamimi rejects the violence supported by his cousin, Ahlam Tamimi, who in 2001 masterminded a terror attack in Jerusalem.

Speaker 9: We reject all type of terrorists around the world. We are against harming the human being life for any reason. But we are struggling for our right to live in peace and to build a state of peace for everyone. And we ask our enemy to remove the occupation.

Speaker 1: This is the Samaritans, and we see here Ma'ale Adumim.

John Lyons: But this will never happen, according to Daniela Weiss, a founder of the settler movement. In the 1970s, Daniela Weiss would regularly meet Ariel Sharon, then minister for agriculture, to plan settlements so no Palestinian state could emerge. You and Ariel Sharon were determined there would not be a Palestinian state.

Speaker 1: With my many talks with Ariel Sharon and with my work with Ariel Sharon, there was a clear understanding, a very clear planning of spreading the community— the Jewish communities in the way that there will be no option for a Palestinian state in Judea and Samaria.

John Lyons: Despite international condemnation, settlement growth is surging. If a Palestinian child said to you, what is the hope for me, for my future, to have my own state? What would you say to that child?

Speaker 1: This land was promised to the Jews by God, and all of it. It's true that in the course of history, Arabs came to this area, from all over. But the promise of God is more important than the changes in history and the political changes. That is why you have to put it deep, deep into your mind that you do not have any chance whatsoever, in any point of history, neither you nor any of your offspring, to ever have an independent state.

Speaker 12: I'm sorry.

Speaker 1: Check it.

John Lyons: For 5-year-old Wadia Maswade and his friend Dia Kafiche, there seems little hope. Do you feel safe in your home, in bed at night? Do you want to stay living in Hebron?

Speaker 1: I don't want to live here.

John Lyons: You want to leave?

Gerard Horton: Where do you want to go to?

Speaker 6: In Jordan, in Amman.

John Lyons: هم البيدهم بيدهم الدور. بدي مطلعونا في صعبة مساخنة اللي أنتوا خمس سنين وتطلعوا من الدور خلاص. أنتوا ما بيعاد دوركو وما الكوش دور أنتوا.

Speaker 12: This is how these communities are torn apart in the middle of the night when no one is watching, and it is done one family at a time, one house at a time, and it's systematic and relentless.

John Lyons: The system is devastating families.

Speaker 1: يلا يا مريم مريم يلا كل بسرعة. أنا يعني الساعة اللي اجوا دقوا علينا الباب لغاية الكل يوم يعني أنا بصعة نفس الساعة. حبيبي تحبني؟ سلام أنا لما فُتت على المحكمة، سوري. لليوم يعني الصوت السناسل اللي مربط ابني فيها هذا الباب جاء صوت الجنزير يعني كان رن رن لليوم أنا بتب بيجي في داناي.

John Lyons: The boys are clearly traumatized.

Speaker 7: أذق بأي واحد لما يروح من السجن بطلت أذاق يعني في كل صحابي. ليهش بحب ظل صاحي إنه إذا رجع يغضوني ما قداش إنه نايم.

Speaker 9: Messi Messi Ronaldo علي ما Sometimes you feel that these kids will be lost forever. So our work with them is to help these kids get rid of the psychological impact which might destroy their lives, and this might lead them to whatever extreme you can imagine.

John Lyons: This long conflict between The relationship between Israelis and Palestinians is one of cycles and revenge. Today, Israel is strong. But what happens when this generation of Palestinian children comes of age?

Speaker 2: Israeli authorities have responded to some of the recommendations made in UNICEF's report, Children in Israeli Military Detention. They have agreed to pilot 2 areas in the West Bank where children are issued with summons rather than being arrested at home at night. To date, this pilot hasn't begun.