South Africa Special - Inkatha, Women's Rights, Medicine

Speaker 1: Just briefly give me some kind of introduction as to who you people are and what you're actually, you know, doing and why you're doing it. Well, briefly, VNS was started in 1985. VNS was started in the middle of a state of emergency. What had been happening previously has been that a lot of people have been coming into the country making films about struggle in this country from their own kind of point of view, whether they be British or American or whatever. And at the time, there was a feeling that it was necessary to set up a unit within the country that will make films about struggles going on here and also make those films available to people involved in those struggles, because what had happened previous to that has been that a lot of people who came here just came here and made stories about South Africa. And those stories were never told in South Africa itself. And we felt it was necessary to begin to develop a culture of film where films will be made about this country and films be made available to—

Speaker 2: Yes.

Speaker 1: What types of films have you been making, and who have you been making those films with? Well, from the onset, from the beginning of VNS, we consciously established relationships and contacts with people involved in the struggle against apartheid, people in the trade unions, people in youth congresses, people in civic organizations and things like that. And these films throughout the years have been made together with these groups, and in most cases for these groups. Now, a lot of the films that you speak about, they seem to be very— and they're obviously very anti-apartheid, anti-government. They carry a whole lot of footage that is quite unique in terms of the depth that it reaches. Has it been very difficult to film over all these years in terms of the government's What has been the response to your filmmaking? And that has, you know, what has the conditions for filming been like? Well, I think to answer that kind of question, one has to say that we had consciously taken a decision to be on the side of the people against apartheid. Life for everyone who's been struggling against apartheid has not been easy. For us as well, it has not been easy to operate under conditions where press freedom was extremely curtailed. But because of the contacts that we had and because of the kind of politics that we had, it made things a little bit easier for us in terms of making those films. We had the trust of people in the trade unions. We had the trust of people in the civics, of people in the youth organizations. So because of that kind of relationship and that kind of trust, it was easy to make films from the point of view of being in a good relationship with people on the ground. But from the point of view of the state, We knew it was not going to be easy. We had to be careful. We had to make sure that we don't avail ourselves for arrest. We had to, in a sense, like anyone fighting against apartheid, work in a kind of semi-underground fashion. Can you tell us a little bit about the film As Savage War of Peace, how it was made, under what circumstances, and what conditions gave rise to what we saw in, you know, taking place in the film? Well, Savage War of Peace is basically about the war that took place and that is still taking place between supporters of the ANC on one hand and supporters of Inkatha on the other hand. And what has been happening is that at the time that we shot Savage War of Peace, South Africa, or South African society, was beginning to open up with the unbanning of organizations people coming back to South Africa from exile, and there was a potential to make this country an ANC country. The ANC was very popular, and the ANC wanted to, to grow and filter down and, and have lots and lots and lots of members. On the other side, there was Inkatha, who all along have been opposed to many, many of the struggles that have been waged by people in country. They've been anti-sanctions. They've been anti-strikes. They have been, we believe, set up as a kind of counter to democratic forces in this country. So I think to try and prevent the ANC to grow bigger than it was at the time There was this effort to try and neutralize the ANC, to try and intimidate people not to become members of the ANC and so forth. So this big war began between Inkatha supporters in the Reef and the ANC. But that war has been a war that has been there, and it had reached a much higher level When it was transported from the reef, to the reef from Natal. I think the film is still relevant now. The tensions between the ANC and Inkatha are still there. The Inkatha still wants power for itself. The Inkatha as an organization is not ready to disappear. On the other hand, the ANC is not prepared—

Speaker 2: To give it up.

Speaker 1: to water down its demand for a democratization of South Africa. So the film is still, is still relevant in a sense that those tensions are still there. From time to time you have situations where people get attacked by Inkatha. I mean, a recent example is when Chris Hani was buried.

Speaker 2: Yes.

Speaker 1: A group of mourners traveled past a hostel, and people were— stones were thrown at people, mourners, and things like that, and simply because those people were ANC supporters. So the film is still relevant. Then the nature of the conflict in terms of the numbers of people involved and The kind of press coverage that the conflict has kind of diminished, but the tensions are still there, and I think the film is still relevant.

Speaker 2: I think it's a very important film. Between July 1990 and May 1991, over 1,500 people lost their lives in the violence that swept across the Reef townships.

Speaker 1: What do you need from us?

Speaker 2: We want peace!

Speaker 1: What do you need from us?

Speaker 2: Peace!

Speaker 1: What do you need from us?

Speaker 2: Peace! Hala Sabbah!

Speaker 1: Hala Sabbah!

Speaker 2: Most of the attacks against residents took place at night. Daybreak was characterized by intermittent confrontations between township youth and the Inkatha Impis.

Speaker 1: When when when the two when the two groups actually clashed this morning, I actually arrived when when they were actually on action. I called our people to pull back, and then they pulled back, back right into the hostel where mainly of them were coming from. So, in that sense, we actually can control our people. And then we— they actually obey our callings.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 1: So, in that sense, if the ANC can have the same power to their followers, then we will actually stop it without hassle. We will not even need the presence of the police. Inkatha, realizing that they've lost on the political field, battlefield, they can only resort to violence in order to intimidate people out of their wits and to try and force people, you know, to take sides with them. The police are here. Everything is still under control now. We will definitely be here throughout. This is a political issue. It needs people to sit down and talk. And most especially, we need the leadership of these groups. They must now sit down.

Speaker 2: For how long? They must now—

Speaker 1: they have never sat down. They must now sit down. I'm going to confront them now, right now. I'm going to write letters to ANC, Inkatha, and PAC. They must sit down, because if they think they can go ahead, we will all die.

Speaker 2: The war between Inkatha and non-Inkatha supporters had been raging in Natal for the past 5 years. It surfaced on the Reef after an Inkatha peace rally was held in Sebokeng Township on the 21st of July, 1990.

Speaker 1: So what happened is that Inkatha did come on the 21st. And they came armed, despite the fact that we had earlier warned the police that we had got information that there was a planned attack on our people. This attack had been planned around Denver Hostels, GB Hostels. And the police had made assurances to our people that Inkatha would not be allowed to come into the area armed.

Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I can't hear you.

Speaker 1: When that meeting closed at the stadium, the buses that had brought Nkatha drove away empty, and all the people who were in the stadium then started marching towards the hostels. From the very beginning of the township, they started scaling fences into people's yards and smashing windows, doors. And in the process, 3 people were killed. At the hostel itself, the residents of the hostels heard about this chaotic situation that had been created by Inkatha, and they realized that now that Inkatha was marching towards the hostel, so they decided to defend themselves. Also, they were also scared of attacks. It must also be noted that the hostel It should be noted that the majority of the people in the hostels there are supporters and members of the African National Congress, and they also belong to structures who work very closely with the community structures. As the Inkatha warriors and the warlords approached the hostel and arrived at the hostel, a fierce battle ensued. Right into the evening, right into the night, there were just fierce battles. There were people who were being shot. And there were about 3 hand grenade explosions within the hostel area. I was in the hostel.

Speaker 2: The violence quickly spread across the entire East and West Rand, with the loss of hundreds of lives. Many of the casualties were as a result of police action against residents. Stop it! Stop it! Stop it!

Speaker 1: No!

Speaker 2: No! By the time the conflict took hold around the hostel areas of Soweto, it was becoming clear that a planned and directed strategy was at work. The West Rand township of Kagiso was the target of some of The most fierce attacks in a night attack on August the twelfth, over twenty people were killed. For ka nakonyana yena ya bo five o'clock ke ha makhomri di a feta a ya ka. Ha ya ka kwana a ba kgodutimala kgodu ntate na ntana le nna motho. E be gore ka sebakanyana batho ba ba tshaba ba re Mazulatsi na Mazulatsi. Ebe ntate re qala re babedi re sena di-care gate ebe re tla re babedi yana. Ha re sena re qala re babedi yana, re ikutlwa re ikutlwa re go. Ha se re go. Kanti ke zone e ya mapodisa e kimakima e. E tlo tswa maZulu mo khoneng e ya ya setso sa . Be ba siana ha ba tsena fana ngwana ya ka o mošimane ba itsenya ka letsatsi ga beele. E be gore ntate ke a mo kgotha ke tla le ene re tsena le e nngwe ntate mo tsenya mo ntlong. Ntate a fana e tla ke bule mane. Nna ha ke le ke ba bolele hore nna ke be le bona. So ntata ba bula ha ntata a bula ntata ba emisa matsoho ya naha. Ha wa leluwe but ha e se founa wena. E ba mmetse kafo le kafo pelong. A ba wa ha wa be ba ntebele be ke tsena ka fane e be ke bula monyakole. Ha ke bula monyakole ke kry-a le hore ba fo pele ba maZulu. So Zulu le di iwanegilela ha wa wa wa ya ko mama ya ko mama o nka mbulala seo o bula le ho mama se bula la mateo. So ne ke siana go na le ka monyenyane ka potlako tsena ke apara leseng ke ka potlako ka foo. Jaanong o ne a siana mogare ga madzolonyana wa mpatla fa a le bogodu jaanong o a batla a tlosa papa a re gore o etse go polase tota. Papa papa papa a re o bale ke be ke utlwa ka re go le ditebele mathapelo mathapelo a re mama ka re papa o kae a re o robetse ke re o ba bolelele monna ka be ke sa kry-e monna ka. As usual, the cycle of violence was perpetuated when the youth of Kakiso took to the streets in an attempt to defend the community.

Speaker 1: This is my dad! They shot tellers.

Speaker 2: They've run around.

Speaker 1: They've entered house to house. House to house. And then they've killed the people. Almost 18, we have lost our fathers in the location. That's why we have run to this side. OK, I'm going to give you a microphone now. I want you to speak to the people.

Speaker 2: Please.

Speaker 1: OK?

Speaker 2: Thank you.

Speaker 1: You would like to ask them?

Speaker 2: Yes.

Speaker 1: The people there. I've got vehicles there that are looking after them. Nobody knows what the problem between us. Actually, we are not fighting with the location That war is just between the hostages fighting only. These people, they are just interfering. We don't know why. Now, I want you to speak to the people. They must please stop burning vehicles, stop stoning the police. They're going to be patrolling the streets, so you must please speak to the people and tell them to go home. We have got police who enables you, so we keep you apart. Once Mandela, they can able to meet Buthelezi, all this fighting, all this war, they can be the end. But if Mandela don't want go to meet Dr. Buthelezi, nobody can solve these problems. Ever and ever, nobody can solve it. Mandela, they should go to meet Dr. Buthelezi, if the top leaders ship, they must sit down and negotiate all together. The problem that can be solved. Please speak. Look, you got me. You said to me you want peace. Where you want peace? You want peace or you want trouble? Against yourselves, but you want the Zulus to fight against them. You can't fight against people, man. What do you think I am?

Speaker 2: I'm here to maintain law order.

Speaker 1: If you go fight, I'm not in the middle, man. Inkatha is a committee of peace. Inkatha, they want all the black people, we must be come all together, build a new South Africa. They never shoot the incanters, but they are able to shoot at the people. If you let them disperse, disperse. If you don't disperse, they shoot us. But they are unable to shoot those guys. Even if they disperse, they won't disperse. That they are not— they are not going to shoot them. But this armor, Baba. Yeah, Baba. Yeah, it's useful. They can't disarm those people. Baba, Mama, Ronaldo, Tottenham. They can't disarm whoever it is. Roberto Aurelio, this armor, Mazou.

Speaker 2: Right now we are being tear-gassed. And then what you are going to do is you are going to go home. And then afterwards, immediately they see that, okay, they are all home, they are coming, they are taking.

Speaker 1: I think the only solution to solve all this is just to demolish all the houses. The police, as they support those people, it's easy for them to give them transport to go to their home, as they give them transport to come and kill us in the locations. Some people are from Kenya. government fighters, because they've been told by the leaders that they must get rid, I mean, of people who don't support Inka. And now, and then, on the look of things, not on the look of things, but these people have been supported by the police. I mean, it's a fact. We have been— we have proved it this morning. We're just about to attack the Inka. They want to demolish the hostel. All of a sudden, the police throw a tear gas at us. And why do they throw tear gas at us? Because you're If only we can demolish the hostels, I think the solution there— that will be the only solution that we can live in peaceful and in harmony here in Kabi So. In fact, countrywide, not Kabi So only. Countrywide, because wherever there's a hostel, that's what is happening.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. During the months of fighting. The hostels became a major issue. It was claimed that it was from here that weapons were distributed, attacks planned and launched, and reinforcements passed in.

Speaker 1: لو كنت تظن ukuthi okwenza ungathi siyabulalana thina abantu abamnyama osodwa kungenxa yenhlangano ezahlukene ngoba umthetho oshaya ukuliywa inhlangano engale ye-ANC nomthetho oshaya ngapha enhlanganweni ye-ANC awuhambisani. Yiyo le nto ungathi manje kukhona ungezwani phakathi kwethu ngoba inkathi isikhathi esiningi ihambisana nokuthi abantu abaya emsebenzini kuyosetshenziswa. Manje uthola ukuthi kuliya inhlangano engale athiye kuneetrakhi abafuna ukuthi kubekhona iitrakhi uma ku-one way code. Kuqalane amaZulu namaXhosa sasesizwaka ethina maZulu ukuthi kuthiwa yi-national complex kwangena i-ANC le esibhekene nawo kuwumashi ngaba yibo abaphathi bethu. Abangabuka lento ukuthi ngingamiswa ngayiphi indlela njengami nje sengathi ngimfihlane ngeke ngikwazi ukungena lami. Kodwa-ke mina ngesingami njengoba ngayile nje emsebenzini uvesiwe abasitedele silwe kuyocaca ukuthi kwenzekani. Basibulale uma besibulale ngoba bathi abafuni amazulu kuphela. Kuliyelelwe lingabakhi baseka rizo, kulibonise ukuthi manje kusukela la siya kopi and siya kanjani la sizoya khona. Sicela lapho and sicela lokho maqabane, siyabulela. Nali Mzukwako Wethu, xa sile nginginya i-ANC, into etha yenu leni siphaya yona.

Speaker 2: Iyasondla, intle xa nibeka.

Speaker 1: Apha kuthi asinakuvuma nathi uba sithathelwe izixhobo zethu, kanti ke noko laa madoda seyinkatha akavumi nazo wona kubaphathi bazo. Asinakuyimela loo nto kuba ngoba sebehambile abanye bethu xa sivayo kukho abantu abasebeswelekile asikabazi nangokuba engoba na.

Speaker 2: Abanye babotshile.

Speaker 1: Bona bona njengabantu ababhenayo ekuseliwa uxolo phakathi kwethu nabo kufanele bona xa bengenalo uxolo ibe ngabo ababotshwayo phaa bathutwe ngeengxelo bahambe bakhutshwe ngaphandle kwe-hospital.

Speaker 2: We have been living with the hostel dwellers. We have our community structures right inside the hostel that have been operating with us for quite long years, and we've never had any tribal conflict in this particular township, and it will not degenerate into a tribal conflict. I'm a Zulu. We've got so many other people who are Zulu-speaking. I'm a Zulu. You know, and who are now in the leadership of this community. And we've never had this kind of a thing.

Speaker 1: Are you a Zulu?

Speaker 2: Yes, I am a Zulu. In Natal, for example, all the people living in Natal are Zulu-speaking people, and this fight has been going on. So we cannot say it's a tribal war going on in Natal, but it is a war generated by the system, you know, to destabilize all the progressive forces that are trying to come up with a solution. Nkrumah had not managed to establish a base at the Sibukeng hostel, and it became the scene of repeated attacks. Evidence pointing to direct white involvement in the violence emerged from these clashes.

Speaker 1: Baba, so, what now? Na ba kentse di-mask mahlong, ba apere dikobo e le bona bathong ya. And then bana ba Ingata bona na ba tla o so wele ba o kapa feela o lefatshe. So kgana report ya hae jwalo hore o sheba hore a theke ena e hlaha jwang ka hokae ho bona. Kgabe re bona hore a theke ene ha re a tumela pela batho bana re batla ho fihla ho bona. Re thunywa ke bana ba basweu bana ba ba mona ho bona. And yena Xhosa. Ho na le motho a mo thuntseng hona mona haufinyane moo. Ha thuntsweng ke yena personal half past six hoseng, ho so bonang mang le mang hore motho ona o thunywa ke mang. And ha re re lata cause maponesa a nahana ka ena, ba mme a ka ho bona. And ba shebisa dipokothong ba re separate tickets, ba ba thunya le rona se re bona batho ba shwele, se re tshaba le ho atumela haholo.

Speaker 2: This is Katlon location. Since Monday, at Musuliki section, I think there are 25 people are dead on Monday night. Today, I don't know how many are dead from yesterday. I don't know who many— how many are dead. In Soluma section, all the houses are burned down. And it seems as if our police are not protecting us. If we try to protect our houses, our children are out and our husbands, they don't even come and help us.

Speaker 1: There was a rumor that, I mean, these guys will be attacking, especially Msilikki, Poko and Padini and Sulu section. So, round about 7:00, I mean, guys started closing We were closing up the streets to make sure that in case those people attack— like, there is this kumbe that they normally use when they attack around here. So they couldn't move. They shouldn't be able to move around freely. Then from that time onward, the police came in. Sometime around half past 7, between half past 7 and 8, the police came in and started shooting at random and dispersing everybody. And as we were running away from the police, we were attacked by the police. The police were shooting at random. The police, these guys were coming in from behind. They went around them and smashing and killing people for no apparent reason. When they crossed through these sections, they said— the police came from behind, they said and saying that all those who are having weapons must go and sleep. They didn't do anything to stop them, and in fact even tried to disarm them. And they were looting They took everything from the houses— TVs, videos, and everything, even clothes from the wardrobes. But the police kept on and said they must go and sleep. They didn't stop them. Round about 10, it got quiet again. So only the police were moving around.

Speaker 2: There's no future for us. We have been destroyed.

Speaker 1: It's a fight. It's a fight. We are Zulus. We are Zulus. Sure. Yes.

Speaker 2: Not even the seriously wounded were spared. Squatter settlements were the most The most vulnerable to attack. Polar Park was attacked repeatedly with hand grenades and automatic weapons. Hundreds died, and thousands were left homeless. I'm a refugee. At the Soweto squatter settlement of Kliptown, claims of direct police involvement were made after an attack in which 17 people were killed.

Speaker 1: We just saw the police came—

Speaker 2: coming in our—

Speaker 1: inside our houses and destroy us. What's that, my friend? Even you get the bullet to kill people. Small children. Exactly.

Speaker 2: Our own sisters.

Speaker 1: Even our own sisters. Also, all of them, they've been controlled. And some people, some other people are disappearing in our location here. We still don't know how to do at this moment.

Speaker 2: Under intense political pressure, Nelson Mandela agreed to meet with Chief de Teles and a short-lived peace treaty was signed.

Speaker 1: Action! Action! Action! Action! Action! Action!

Speaker 2: In Alexander Township, which had until now been spared the carnage, the holding of an Inkatha peace rally brought the violence to this traditional ANC stronghold. As you've seen, the violence came in Alexander immediately after the so-called mayor, who has not been elected by anybody of the community, was told to resign. Then all of a sudden, he started joining this Inkatha. From there, then— I'm sorry, I can't hear you. Hell broke out. A night vigil to mark the deaths of 3 residents killed after the rally was attacked with automatic weapons. 14 people were massacred.

Speaker 1: It's not too late. It's not also INGATA fighting a certain nation, like it's claimed that they are fighting the Xhosa. What we have seen is that people from all races, from all nations, they all die when INGATA attacks. And therefore, the truth is that that is why we say it is propelled by the government. I believe that it's propelled by the government. I believe that it's propelled by the government. Up to this far, Inkatha have been defending.

Speaker 2: Should—

Speaker 1: do we take an initiative that we attack, this— all this violence would be looked like a Sunday picnic, because it would be a real fist violence. And then I believe immediately the violence will stop, because somebody will bend down. Some of us tend to think that the government is responsible for this. They know exactly why this is happening.

Speaker 2: It's a war generated by the system, you know, to destabilize all the progressive forces that are trying to come up with a solution.

Speaker 1: Unfortunately, democracy is actually calling that we be strongest of them all in order to come to power in the future and democratically run this country.

Speaker 2: I should think Inkatha is part and parcel of the government. So it's working for the government. In July 1991, the South African government was forced to admit to the support and direct funding of Inkatha after concrete evidence was produced in the press.

Speaker 1: Do you think that the assassination of Chris Hani is part of the same picture that we see in Savage War of History? Are the two connected?

Speaker 2: Yes.

Speaker 1: The 2 are connected. The death of Chris Hani. Well, the death of Chris Hani, the death of Chris Hani and what we saw in Savage War of Peace is part of the same story. Because what you see in Savage War of Peace is, as I said, you see forces against democracy fighting against forces for democracy. What Chris stood for was peace and democratization of South Africa. And forces against democracy took Chris's life. So, for me, there is that connection. And we will live with this kind of threat for quite some time, because there are There are a lot of people in this country who have benefited from the system of apartheid. And whoever wants to destroy apartheid, get apartheid done away with, is a target for those people who have been brainwashed for so many years, firstly, to believe that black people are not human, secondly, to believe that That, you know, white people ought to stay in power forever in this country. So because of those kinds of things, we are going to, I suspect, suffer the same kind of casualties as Chris. The video-making process in itself in this country is a struggle. We operate under conditions where To have anything on national television, we have to fight for that. And we have been able to show one or two films on national television in this country because we have had the backing of organizations like COSATU, the biggest trade union. Federation in this country. So we are engaged in, in that kind of struggle all along in terms of making sure that the kinds of films that we make become accessible to everyone in this country through national television. That in itself is a struggle. And in terms of the struggles that are taking place, in society in general. We, we are still committed to a struggle for the obliteration of apartheid, and we will make films that will conscientize people about that, that will inform people about that, that will serve to mobilize people against the struggle, uh, For the struggle against apartheid.

Speaker 2: No justice in LA! No peace in the world!

Speaker 1: No justice in LA!

Speaker 2: No peace in the world! No justice in LA!

Speaker 1: No peace in the world! All over this earth, dark people who have been oppressed Yes. —who are oppressed and exploited by those who are not their own kind, strangers, are coming together to get the oppressor off their back. You and I learn a lesson from that. We are oppressed. We are exploited. We are downtrodden. We are denied not only civil rights, but even human rights. So the only way we're going to get some of this oppression and exploitation away from us or aside from We call this demonstration because we are taking up the legacy of Malcolm, which was to take our case to the United Nations. And for the last 4 years, we have taken our case to the United Nations. We have taken our case to the Commission on Human Rights to get them to address the fact that 40 million Africans in the United States are having their rights violated daily. They're having their rights violated by the police. They're having their rights violated by racist white mobs that with impunity kill, beat our people, and don't go to jail. And the few times they do go is for a short time.

Speaker 2: Black is beautiful. Farm was empty, now it's filled in. Time for building. Teach the children, you want to erase my misplacement. Just to make America a beautiful white place? That's not happening. I'll keep rapping it. Crowds attracting it. You're subtracting it. I'll discover, unite the lover, teach the brother, fight the other. Young black eagle hunting evil. I want peace, but that's illegal. Young brothers should do a life in prison. Love is life and life is worth living. Al-Islam, read the Quran. Grab the mic and drop bombs. Steel on my boots, step to my roots. Black is dominant. That's enough proof. Separation of integration, strong foundation, Nubian nation. Today, we will be going to the United Nations. We will submit a petition to the Secretary-General or his designee, a petition charging genocide, genocide documented. With statistics such as infant mortality rates, unemployment, homelessness, the absolute absence of anything that could resemble healthcare— And she is, too. Capital punishment, in particular, as it relates —to African men in this country, police brutality, that Rodney King does nothing more than to put on screen once again the fascistic brutality of the national, local and state police forces across the United States. I'm so sorry.

Speaker 1: This is my country, land of my birth. This is my country, the red, white and blue. America, I pledge thee my allegiance.

Speaker 2: The police strategy was to move directly on the leadership, without provocation, without any attempt to talk, to negotiate, but directly to crush. It is in line with the New World Order policy of George Bush of maximum overkill. What happened today is just another example Of their inability to rule, they have raped and pillaged and murdered, and people are now saying, no more, no bet. As any predator, their response is more vicious and more brutal violence.

Speaker 1: If I take my hand and slap you, you don't even feel it. It might sting you because these digits You are separated, but all I have to do to put you back in your place is bring those digits together.

Speaker 2: The discovery of gold and diamonds in South Africa drew thousands of men of every nationality to the centers that grew to be our cities. Since that first claim, men, and in particular white men, have jealously guarded the commanding heights of the economy. Over time, South African women have challenged that claim and today have gained access into virtually all the professions. In the good old days, women weren't encouraged to go to school. Now I suppose the setup has changed. We do just as well as men and occasionally better. But I think the difficult entry point, the bottleneck entry point, is into the different professions, because women will always be at the bottom of of whatever selection policy, you know. The one question I remember specifically when I was asked, when I was looking for articles many years ago, was— you know, I had one child then, and I was asked whether I was going to have other children. You always get asked that. Are you past childbearing age? I don't know why it should make a difference, but it does make a difference. I don't know whether— why you should be taken on on the condition that you're not going to have more children. I think it's because And it must be accepted by our male colleagues and our male counterparts that we have this added extra ability or capability, so to speak, of having children. We must look after our children. And women should not, as a result, be forced out of the profession, mainly because, especially at the sidebar, that they can't mix the two. They can't have time off to look after the children and still be equal Members of the profession. You can't help me, boy. For women throughout the world, building a career is made extremely difficult by the additional responsibility of raising children. In South Africa, a system of childcare has developed which totally exploits the labor of black women who are unable to find employment elsewhere in the economy. Some employees, they doesn't like even your family. They don't like even your friends. How much more when you bring the kids inside the job, you see. And whenever you finish, you're fed up with your job because you know that, what about my kids?

Speaker 1: Okay.

Speaker 2: The whole day I'm spending here, the whole week I'm spending here, I've got a short time to meet with my kids. Now that thing, it's just been pressurizing me. You're oppressed, and whenever you're oppressed, you're not feeling well. Early in the morning you wake up, you're going to the work, you're feeling tired, you're not happy for that job. You just, you know what, because Got nowhere to go. He's got no money. He's got nothing. Even the black people, they go, they make themselves. They can't all like this to the other people. You see, that's why everything is oppressed, oppressed, and it's not nice, and it's not legal at all. Well, the only thing I was being suggest, at least there must be something to do it from the government to the domestic workers. Msebetsi wa ka o noko o bereka. Kore monga ka o rile. Ke santsane ke bereka. A hlahella ka bo half past eleven. E le ha fihla ka bo half past eleven, a mpitsa. E le ha sena ho fetsa a mpitsa ka araba. E le he ke araba, a re ne ke le ne ke le toilet. A re a monyako wa toilet. Ha a re a monyako wa toilet a kena le ho nraha. A mpotsisa a re a re a re monna a re emella ka emella. Ke a ntshupa ka sethunya. Ka mmotsa ke re why o ntshupa ka sethunya? Ke a tla fetola a re. I think if we are covered by the Labor Relations Act, we would get the basic conditions of employment and the Wage Act, which is the most important one, and the maternity benefits. We also would like to have those benefits as domestic workers.

Speaker 1: Freedom!

Speaker 2: We cannot really continue the situation where people are really exploited up to the last day of their lives. And people have gained from that situation, especially on the employer's side. It's not to say that they cannot manage to pay. They can. But they're spoiled by the situation. And it's hard, because it will be hard for them, because we've got to change. Childminder services are far too expensive for the majority of working women in South Africa. For this reason, childcare has become an important issue for the unions to tackle. In 1989, metalworkers at the BMW plant in Pretoria made an important breakthrough when management agreed to start a factory-based crèche. Management take responsibility and see to it that the crèches run smoothly. I can say it is advantageous in that scope. But when coming to transport children to the industrial area, it's not advantageous, because it's not safe these days to go along with a child in the train, in the bus or a taxi. If it's community-based, it means that mothers are going to be responsible for the children. So this is really interesting to have school at the working place, especially Especially where fathers are, most of them. So most of the fathers are really responsible. It's a real challenge and experience for them to look after their children. Employers should bear the cost, together with the state, I can say, because that is the state responsibility. Today, the vast majority of working women in South Africa are found in the Service sector— cooking, serving, and cleaning for the growing urban population. Abantwana bethu hamba sibathola sibabhodisa lome emaneksdoro. Kwesinye isikhathi abakutholi nokudla ngoba sebenza kanzima, sithole imali lasebenza khona.

Speaker 1: It's not safe for them working at night in the city on their own. Firstly, it's not even safe for men to work at night on their own in the city without any security.

Speaker 2: Yeah, la namasebenza ngesinye isikhathi siyagijima siya namalala amatrolli.

Speaker 1: It becomes so difficult for unions to speak on their behalf because they are not allowed to become members of any union. When they knock off at night, they do have transport problems, and most of them sleep in the city, in the streets or passages, or at the bus station.

Speaker 2: The main problem for municipal workers who are hired on a casual basis is the lack of job security. And what this means is that they're employed on a day-to-day basis. There's no— they don't know if they'll be doing the same job tomorrow and whether they'll be getting the meager income that they actually do receive. They have no benefits whatsoever— pension, UIF, Provident Fund workers in this category wouldn't have access to. When women first entered the job market, they moved into very specific categories of work. They took jobs where they could use the skills they had grown up learning at home. The problem is that society does not value these skills very highly, as most women share them, and they are therefore not scarce. I think there is lots of women in the nursing profession. Because nursing was actually portrayed as a female duty, like bringing up children, looking after the sick even at home. In the nursing department, it is very rare that you find a black matron being the chief matron of the hospital. Despite that you are more qualified than the white matron, you will be a junior to that white matron who is only, you know, qualified in midwifery and general. You tended to have a pattern in most industry where you got white men, then you got white women, then you got African men, then you sometimes got colored women or Indian women, and then right at the end you got African women. So you had a hierarchy even within, you know, both racial and gender within how firms or labor markets operated. So white women moved in to some extent, but white women have never moved into the full spectrum of the South African economy. By the 1930s, industry had begun At this time, official wage board policy ensured that women earned one-third less than their male counterparts. As the numbers of women in the factories grew, they began to play a leading role in the development of the industrial unions. Unemployment, confinement, paternity leave— there were no such things in those days. That only came after the union organized in the factories. In those days, if you have a baby, and even if they see you pregnant, then you get dismissed, and you are not going to employ— they are not going to employ you again. But women had to work, because the men were earning so little that they couldn't cope to feed their family. Due to the long history of women's involvement in the catering sector, it is these workers The mothers that have led the fight for parental rights. Not only have they fought for and won maternity benefits, but also paternity benefits.

Speaker 1: As a union, we make sure that the mother is allowed to have the right to have the baby, because we thought that's a basic right. And the other point is that she should be able to come back to conditions not less than what actually she was. At before leaving the place of employment, paternity leave is very much important.

Speaker 2: Ga golo mo bontateng, gobane ntho ya mathomo ha o le mme o thole e le gore ha o fetsa go thola ngwana o batla thuso go tswa mo ntate or mo o mong wa lelapa. O thole e le gore thuso o ka kry-ang ga golo ke mo ntate, gobane ntate ke ena a tsebang matshwenyego a gago le bothata ba gago. The struggle for parental rights and childcare should be the parental struggle, not the women's struggle. And for us to make sure that women gain that, men should be part of that also, because they are also parents. We are saying that it takes two to make one, and it must take two to make sure that the one grows up to a healthy, you know, bright somebody in the future. I'm a woman. Over time, the initial patterns of hiring women for only certain categories of work became entrenched. It is not surprising that many women found themselves working in the clothing and textile factories. As in most cases where factories hire mainly women workers, their skills are not highly valued and wages are low. Joseph Massad explained how she came to be hired as a machinist in this factory. I used to see women that comes from the clothing factory, and I used to think very high and mighty about it, because I was not in that category. So, when I first got a job, I was offered to be a service hand, and I refused to be a service hand, because I felt there was more money being a machinist, and I needed more money. So, I got the job as machinist. But just that you need to learn more. You need to get more skills, which we just have just one skill, that's sitting on the machine and machining all the time. We do have training boards that's attached to the industry. We believe that those institutions, not as in the past, should be one of the institutions that should assist employees. Workers in training. So we are undergoing a process in the union at the present moment where we would like the union to have an equal say on that training boards, and then also how to design the kind of training that workers need to get in the industry. And we think that, you know, by workers getting the necessary training, it will assist not only the workers, but it will assist the industry at At the end of the day— Many women have moved into jobs in industries traditionally reserved for men, such as in electronic and metal sectors. But it is still made very difficult for women to move into the more highly graded jobs. I was a tea girl for 5 years. Then I started saying that to be a tea girl is a boring job. When you start actually demanding a better wage to management, they will tell you that they don't consider that department of making tea as a department, so it's better for you to be transferred to another department. Then I choose to be an overhead crane driver because it was a better job. And when they promoting people to drive those overhead cranes, they're only considering men. Then I proved that also women are capable to do the very same men job that they What are you doing? I was challenged by a lot of men. They said to me I'm lowering their dignity. And some of them said the job that I'm doing is not suitable for female, because when I was supposed to go up, up with the stairs to start driving, they say when they go underneath, they see something that I must not expose to They used the traditional belief that in our culture women are not supposed to go up, they must sit down normally, in order to convince me. But most unfortunate, because I knew that was not true, then I said, no ways, I'll be doing the driving. And some men were saying that they will challenge management, how can they get— I can get the similar pay as male comrades that are men. How did you respond to that? Men, and they've got better responsibility than myself. Then we started arguing from that. I said women are the people that are taking those responsibilities. When I started driving train for the first time, I was tired. But when I get used to it, I felt I was very, very, very much not tired. I was happy about Then I feel that it was a very light job, because I just jump in and sit down and just operate, just press a button and the crane will move, than before. Because each and every time when making tea, anybody who just jump in in the office, you know, during tea time, they'll just press a button and say, Rain, make me a tea. Rain, make us 3 cups of coffee. Rain, do us— Rain, bring water.

Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

Speaker 2: Rain the papers there, come and collect. Many factories in South Africa hire women to work on a seasonal basis. These women are often expected to work unusually long shifts, and the pay is bad due to the myth that women are not responsible for dependents. As seasonal workers, they receive none of the benefits of full-time workers. At the end of the season, they are paid their salaries and turned away. Often they have no prospects of work to support themselves and their families until the next year. The agricultural sector employs large numbers of women as seasonal workers. They are generally the most exploited of all women working in the formal economy. These women are not always hired from outside, but are often drawn from the families of men working full-time on the farm. Die vrouwen moeten eindelijk, is verplicht in Nederland, moeten op die plaatsen ook echt helpen. Wanneer, voor alle seizoentijden, wanneer die persoon. Is die ervan aan die betrokken plaatsbesluit kijkt, maar ons het nog meer ander arbeid nodig dan moe die vrouw. Ze moet net gaan, ze kan niet zeer, zeer, zeer eten huishouding om na te kijken. Ze moet gaan naar die plaats doen, ze moet die werk gaan doen. Want op het einde van die dag, als ze weiert, dan is het een probleem voor die man. Hij mag moeilijk zijn, hij moet leegmaken en hij mag moeilijk zijn werk ook. Women that work on farms do come with backache problems to the hospital. Like, they bend for nearly the whole day, you know, taking out weeds in the farm. And what is surprising with these women is that they are malnourished, and yet they are the people that are responsible for planting the vegetables. I have a question. That we buy in the market. An enormous amount of work is carried out by South African women that is not mirrored in our national statistics. This is the work done by women in the rural areas, and especially those in the so-called homelands. The mobility of women was used to in fact underpin the entire poor labor system in this country, the cheap labor policy, in that men were required to work on the mines, on the railways, and so on. And when a whole range of policies were undertaken to move men off the land to work for very poor wages, the counterpart of that was to retain women on the land so that they fed the children and the families. And that again illustrated the extent to which women's labor has in fact contributed to the wealth of this country. Though we tend to think of it mainly in terms of the miners' labor. So, in the barren homelands, women bear the brunt of apartheid labor policy. As men moved to the cities, women were left to eke out a meager existence for themselves. As the homelands became more and more overcrowded, many women also left for the cities. Those that remain behind continue to support their families under some of the harshest conditions in the country. re la re beile re tsofe. Ha re lebella mo dinaheng tse dintshi ho etsang mo nna ke tswang rona le ko ke tsotseng rona, re fumana hore basadi ba bantsi ba na le bothata bona bo ba hore ba se ke ba fuwa di di di di di black. Jwale ba tshwanetse hore mosadi basadi ba re ba tsena mo seradikaneng pele ba ba tsentsha ke ona mathata a hore e tseya sekenyana. Nka se khumane tšhimo, nka se khumane kokotwane. Gone jwale basadi ba bantši ba bona gore segadi ka nna sele ga se ba tswele mogola. Ya, ka bo rona re le bo mma madi ba dinaga magae re rata gore go due molao o tla tshireletsang bo mma, o tla fang bo mma ditokelo, o tla fang bo mma maatla le bona gore ba kgone go itekanela. One of the biggest problems faced by rural women is the lack of access to education. Family duties generally keep girls from completing Many women in the country are completing much more than primary school. But for all women in South Africa, the education system has played a major role in perpetuating their oppression. When I was a student, I had always hoped that I would be a chemist, and that was my ambition.

Speaker 1: Yes.

Speaker 2: When I started, the question of economy came in and the whole question of saying that science subjects are male subjects because they're very difficult, women cannot make it. If I have to quote, there was one lecturer at the University of the North who always said that blacks cannot cope with mathematics, especially a black woman. If a black woman can pass mathematics, he will swallow his head.

Speaker 1: I mean, only men have been encouraged to take up, you know, certain subjects. You know, it has been believed that those subjects are difficult and women cannot do them.

Speaker 2: Girls are encouraged— or not even encouraged, forced to do subjects like home economics, and boys are not allowed to do home economics. Therefore, the whole question has got The whole thing that is going to change our society is through education. The right people to do that are teachers and maybe the community as a whole. But it's a very, very long struggle, because you find that males who are said to be liberated, who are within the organization, who are preaching nonsexism, they also, at a certain level, expect their women to perform extra duties. There was some misconception that when a man is just— is domesticated in a way, doing some of these jobs and rearing children and so on, is pulled by the nose by the woman. I mean, that has been some of the misconceptions that were created in society. But I think we're gradually getting away from that. It's a process that I believe that we can overcome very easily through discussions, through education, and so on, and openness about the issues. Since the launch of the Congress As the largest congress of South African trade unions, many of its affiliates have set up structures to look into issues affecting women both in the workplace and in the unions. In 1991, COSATU hired a full-time gender coordinator to encourage the development of these forums and to ensure that gender issues were taken seriously in its affiliated unions. We believe that the very same people The people which are in the homes are the very same people in the workplaces. And if we cannot start it at home, maybe we could start it in the unions and, you know, make sure that we educate men, which will go back also and try to change lives in their own— because some of the problems we are facing in the unions as women is that women do not— you know, cannot freely participate in the structures because they don't have time to. I think that's a very important point. In the near future, I would like to see things changed in COSATU as a whole. We would like to see a woman president or a woman general secretary. If we are not determined to do things, we will never, never achieve something. There's 3 things that we must build on. It's determination and reliability and discipline. So the woman must just march forward, as they did with the passes in the early days. So that is what women do. And we must march forward, even if our men doesn't want to march with us now. They will, at a later stage, also march with us.

Speaker 1: Pambele. Mama, I want to be an engineer.

Speaker 2: Believe in your dreams. Trust what your heart says. Don't be afraid to stand up and say what you know. And you know what you know, what you know, because time is on our side. The time is on our side. We got time. Time is on our side.

Speaker 1: Happy!

Speaker 2: Here's the unabridged explanation of how Deep Dish TV gets to you. It starts with thousands of producers making programs within their communities nationwide. They send their shows to coordinating producers, each in a different region working on a different show. All the edited shows are sent to Deep Dish Central in New York, where we coordinate the networks. We take it to an uplink, which sends it to a satellite, which sends its beam back down to this hemisphere in a pattern called a footprint. Cable systems receive the signal in a dish and send it out to their subscribers. We're the first network to broadcast the work of whistleblowers on a public access channel, through the cable system to your house, to your TV, to your eyes. Deep Dish is a unique network because it isn't driven by profit or religion. We won't try to sell you anything. Public access is a vital component of our First Amendment rights. Stay tuned to Deep Dish and see fearless TV.

Speaker 1: Oh, there we go. Oh, yeah. Speedy than power. No, it's power.

Speaker 2: I said chopper.

Speaker 1: It's done. I'm jealous. Maybe you are.

Speaker 2: Adnan Hussein, Danny.

Speaker 1: I'm not a thief. Just help me, please. Just help me to take this out. I'm sure they're going to buy it.

Speaker 2: Gunshots. All right, all right, did you relax? As a nurse, I asked myself a question. What is a patient? Do you qualify to be a patient just because you are on a bed? What about the mother that is earning 500 rands? Is she not a patient that is not admitted? Yes! From the workers' point of view, the health sector in South Africa is more a battlefield than labor relations. Workers are beaten when demonstrating. There are assassinations. The most recent strike took five months to resolve, and all this in the context of starvation wages. Security corps involvement in strike breaking is massive, and soldiers. Doctors marched with impunity through black hospitals. What we have today is the result of decades of apartheid health. Black healthcare is miserable in comparison with facilities available to whites. For workers who are also patients, it meant they could not be treated in the very hospitals they worked in. With starvation wages paid to general workers, the only option was to unionize, to push through demands on an authority that did not care. With the rise of skills in the healthcare sector, more qualified workers joined the organized labor struggle, and a tradition of seeing ourselves as healthcare workers with a common bond was born.

Speaker 1: In the— shall we say, the heyday of the struggle, day of apartheid, black people were taken on simply as, you know, expendable labor to do the cleaning, make the tea, and all that sort of thing. Now, with the process of the rise of the manufacturing industry in this country, that has changed, and workers in the private sector, and a fair number of black workers, not nearly enough, but a fair number, have actually advanced themselves educationally and in other ways, and now form part of what we might call an educated and skilled working class. Now, in the state, this process has lagged. And what has happened, in fact, is that we have had nurses and people of that nature who have been taken on by the state, but by and large workers have been left as this lump of kind of exploited workers. Stop no wonder! Too much trouble! Stop no wonder!

Speaker 2: The HAL was formed in 1987 in the context of widespread demands for the scrapping of apartheid. Union demands were linked to the struggle for desegregating hospitals, reaching a climax in the 1989 Defiance Campaign.

Speaker 1: The TPAE is made up of white bureaucrats who have been entrenched into their positions of authority by decades of apartheid and by a process of sheltered employment for them. They also display a remarkable lack of expertise in labor relations, and particularly when it comes to healthcare for black people, The 1990 strike was centered around basic demands: union recognition, the temporary status of general workers, conditions of employment and wages. In 1990, definitely, we moved from a premises where we didn't have any recognition at all, you know? I mean, the state as employer and any provincial administration were saying because of the Public Service Act, they can't even speak to us, you know. So I think that was the essence of the 1990 strike, as much as it was around wages also.

Speaker 2: In 1990, the strike did not take a long time, and I suppose it is because many nurses, that is professional nurses, went on strike. Maybe what contributed to the It was the, you know, the unbanning of the organizations, whereby we had an idea that now that the organizations have been unbanned, you are free to verbalize your plight. If the context of the 1990 strike was the unbanning of the organizations, Then the lengthy and bitter 1992 strike took place in the context of the breakdown of CODESA.

Speaker 1: The pressure's been building up since 1990. And the final showdown came when we walked out of wage negotiations with the government in May. Workers embarked on demonstrations. And at Baragwanath Hospital, they were locked out by the management. And that was the actual event which sparked the strike war.

Speaker 2: What's going on? The 1992 strike involved about 44,000 health workers. Bread-and-butter issues were not resolved in 1990— issues like a minimum wage of 1,100 rand, permanent status for all state sector workers with full benefits, the extension of the Labor Relations Act with necessary amendments. The TPA deployed soldiers and police in all hospitals, dismissed and locked workers out of hospitals. The focus then changed, and workers were now fighting for reinstatement of the dismissed 8,000. With the existing legislation, health professionals such as nurses are not allowed to go on strike and were harassed for demonstrating.

Speaker 1: We, as management, regarded as unethical for healthcare workers to go on strike. We have attempted, in negotiating an increment agreement, to make this very clear and to reach agreement with NAWU. And we did sign an agreement in which both parties acknowledge the inherent difference of a healthcare institution and the operations at such an institution We all accept that there can be no tools-down approach in the health sector, because it is an essential service. And we are strong adherents of that particular doctrine. Even now, and during the entire duration of the strike, we have maintained a very high level We of professionalism. I think have it's important to note that the made hospital is a state-run institution. repeated calls to the authorities to allow the workers to render emergency services, as they have been prepared to do so. But the authorities have simply ignored those pleas.

Speaker 2: Who is actually being unethical here? Is it actually the health workers who are still— who are protesting legitimately against terrible conditions? Or is it actually TPA and Barrow's management that actually don't care. A very interesting example, but fairly typical, was yesterday, where there was a large community march, about, I think, 2,000 to 3,000 people, passive, outside, marching to Baragwanath. The management, hospital management's response was to actually close the hospital. We were having to field people who were nursing mothers. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Heavily pregnant mothers. There was a child with paraffin poisoning. There were people who had been called by the hospital to visit critically ill people in the wards. The security response was, nobody comes into this hospital until further notice.

Speaker 1: Police action is not action that you should use during strike action, but There is a definite part to that, and that is that when people's lives become at stake, when property of the state is being damaged, then the proper people to use to curb that is the police.

Speaker 2: But the authorities did not only use police action to break the strike. They also attempted to divide workers. The particular way they employed scab labor used the old divide-and-rule tactic.

Speaker 1: What the states have done in this area has been particularly provocative, because they've been getting people from the hostels, they've been arming them, and they've been ferrying them to work under police protection. Now, that kind of situation is bound to provoke violence, given the fact that most of our membership are either ANC or PAC aligned. And then you have them bringing in this almost traditional enemy, if you like, of Inkatha. And I think it's been done deliberately by the state so as to provoke violence.

Speaker 2: More than 500 people have been dismissed by the management of Baragwanath Hospital, and they were replaced by the Inkatha people because they were said to have— they were told to show up The Inkatha cards so that they can be employed. And what I can say is that most of the people that are working at Baragwanath have been recruited to join the WUSA, and that is an Inkatha-affiliated organization. The shop stewards were the first targets. We have lost about 6 shop stewards in the Dugspruit Hospital. Murdered in their own homes. Some murdered while going to the to the to the shops to buy. I am a single mother. I'm staying all by myself in my house. It was not safe to remain in my house because these people come. And shoot you whilst they are in your home. So I decided to move out and go to hiding. The strike proceeded in a climate of rising intimidation and violence. Conditions in hospitals were deteriorating rapidly, and pressure on the authorities meant the state media apparatus had to acknowledge the crisis. And as the hospital strike continues, we examine the rights of nursing staff operating in a climate of intimidation.

Speaker 1: It is not known whether those committing the violence are actually members of NAWU or not. And despite a police presence, the SAP say— Good evening, gentlemen.

Speaker 2: The cumbersome apparatus of the SABC Swung into action, throwing its considerable weight behind the state propaganda campaign, although it must be said, somewhat unsuccessfully.

Speaker 1: Mr. Carrera, you're accused of telling lies. Sir, I've got a pamphlet here of NAWU which says, amongst others, it must go now, speaking about the government. De Klerk and his murderers must go. Verwoerd and all the other thieves must go. The whole rotten corpse of apartheid must go. Democracy now. Workers right now. We want a harbour. We want a Kusatu. This is fighting talk. That's fighting talk. This fighting talk. Of course, it's fighting talk, and we're not ashamed of that. We intend to fight this government, and we intend to be part of the mass action campaign to remove this government. We make no bones about that. But that is a separate issue from the one that we are addressing now. The issues are wages and conditions of employment, and I think that it's a. It's a signal of the weakness of this government and of the nature of these people, that they will make these kind of spurious claims. We issued many calls to our members, and we'll continue to do that, if and when we need to. Can I bring you both back to reality?

Speaker 2: But it was exactly this version of reality that was proving the problem. As the strike entered its 5th month, Nehru's resources were depleted, and Assata But resistance was needed from progressive organizations and the community at large.

Speaker 1: It's important for communities to intervene strongly, decisively, at the precise moment. Our intervention as communities, through the civics and the SACP, the ANC, was almost, almost belated. I strongly believe that had we not intervened at that particular time, it could have been a disastrous, you know, end result for for Lehaou. Otherwise, we are looking at a very different story. It is, and I think we may have to reconsider review our. Memorandum now, if you do not go and talk to him and you do not block us here now. That's right, and I have my orders from the state, sir, is that you telling these men to block us here, sir. I just said that you can come. We'll do your duty. Thank you very much. Thank you very much.

Speaker 2: No problem.

Speaker 1: Thank you. We met with the structures now, various structures, progressive structures, like the CINICS and other progressive organizations. We related our problem to the community now, telling that now our people are suffering inside, that is now right inside the hospital, that is the workers. This situation had prevailed in the suburbs. This issue should be long addressed. But just because now it is politically motivated, that is happening in the black suburbs, they are not interested in solving the situation. Workers combined together to protect their interests and to protect their common interests. And one would have hoped to have seen much more concrete response. From various affiliates, as to why they haven't come forward with that, I think I can't answer that, and only they can. And I wouldn't be prepared to comment on that. But what I would like to say is that I believe that this this is part of a deeper, more fundamental problem in the Federation as a whole. But I think there's now a willingness to change this situation, and I would hope that it becomes. It's something that's a priority, because personally I believe that, you know, we shouldn't be really just considered as Nehau or as Nuum or as even Mwasa or anybody else. There are workers and workers who are organized in trade unions, and the idea should be as much unity as possible.

Speaker 2: We are the people of the land. When the strike was finally settled, workers had won important gains, the chief of which is the possibility of arbitration. Disputes will hopefully now be resolved before the union has to resort to another painful strike. Although the strike demands have not been met, there's a possibility that there will be arbitration on wages and work conditions, and on the issue of temporary workers.

Speaker 1: Not all of our members will be getting their jobs back, you know. I mean, if someone is found guilty at arbitration, he's definitely not coming back, you know. If IMSA, I mean, found him guilty of having been, you know, engaged in misconduct kind of activities during the course of the strike. So I think those kind of losses are real, you know.

Speaker 2: I've got no one who likes me by now from my family. They say I'm a I've lost my job. There's no one who wants to respond on my side. I'm struggling.

Speaker 1: So my breadwinner, my wife, is not working, and I had it tough to maintain my children, and everybody depends on me.

Speaker 2: I don't know how long am I going to survive. I don't know how I'm going to go forward, but I'm going forward. I hope to get really— The union has grown in capacity. Leadership and communication structures have improved. Community involvement has been increased. This is likely to be an increasing trend in future strategies. We're here to fight! As workers return to work, they do so under new security measures. The authorities have also learned from the strike, and they, too, are more prepared for future struggles. A new divide-and-rule element has been introduced. Of the scabs taken on, some 2,500 will enjoy permanent status at TPA hospitals. For those who succeed in regaining their jobs, the strike has been a bittersweet victory. What do you do with R500 with a family of 5 children, 8 children? Is that R500 not manufacturing malnutrition, which, in turn, as a nurse, I will have to nurse in the ward? Those are some of the reasons that made me Take a stand boldly and say, I will fight until our demands are met.

Speaker 1: How do you see yourselves going forward in terms of those political struggles and the video-making process? Well, the, the video-making process in itself in this country is a struggle. We operate under conditions where to have anything on national television, we have to fight for that. And we have been able to show one or two films on national television in this country because we have had the backing of organizations like COSATU, the biggest trade union federation in this country. So we are engaged in, in that kind of struggle all along in terms of making sure that the kinds of films that we make become accessible to everyone in this country through national television. That in itself is a struggle. And in terms of the struggles that are taking place, um, in society in general, we, we are still committed to a struggle for the obliteration of apartheid. And we will make films that will conscientize people about that, that will inform people about that, that will serve to mobilize people against the struggle, uh, for the struggle against apartheid.