Sami Al-Arian - The Persecution of Sami Al-Arian Pt 2

Sami Al-Arian: After 9/11, for whatever reason, the forces of intolerance, exclusionary politics, and hegemony really took center stage. They would expect and want and clearly seek weakness and fear and apprehension and alienation. لا في المؤسسة لم يكن من أجل بضعة الدولارات التي كنا نبعثها والتي بدو سكات سكت في إحجاز الشعب الروسيت ولكن لطارقاً التي كانت أخذنا في هذه المؤسسة استطاعت أن توصل عبارات ومعانات الشعب الفلسطيني.

Rania Alagindi: The FBI, Istanbul, George Bush, the University of South Florida. How are these things connected? Today we'll learn that and so much more. My name is Rania Alagindi, the Programs and Outreach Director for Care Florida. Welcome to Exposed, CAIR Florida's 4-part series on U.S. political prisoners, highlighting the U.S. government overreach, from COINTELPRO to current police brutality. Don't know what COINTELPRO is? Don't worry. We'll get to that. What connects the civil rights struggle of Martin Luther King Jr. and Malcolm X to the Patriot Act that was passed after 9/11? We'll get to that, too. And the rampant growth of the Islamophobia industry in the United States? Islamophobia. And make no mistake, it is an industry, and the current unchecked police brutality that we see currently engulfing the country. Join us over the next four weeks as each week we take a case of a U.S. political prisoner, and yes, the U.S. does have political prisoners, and make the argument that the U.S. government overreach with with the intent to erode our civil liberties and target social activists is indeed not a new phenomena. But rather the typical M.O. of the United States, and perhaps more importantly, what that means for us today and how we move forward from here. This week, it is our distinct pleasure to start with a case that hits close to home for many Muslims in Florida especially. Imagine, imagine being arrested in your home, detained for over 2 years before your trial even begins, being presented with absolutely no evidence of any crime in your trial, resulting in your acquittal, only to continue to be detained for an additional 9 years by the government. Dr. Sami Al-Arian is the model image of a lifelong community activist and humanitarian who has dedicated his life to the betterment of our communities and the strengthening of democracy. Ironically and devastatingly, this mission and his political activism and outspokenness led to his unconstitutional arrest and detainment. So let's dive in. But before we do, a few words from CAIR Florida's executive director, Mr. Hassan Chibli.

Hassan Chibli: Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh. Bismillahirrahmanirrahim. I want to welcome everybody and thank everybody for joining us for this critical conversation, a conversation that I really wish every Muslim in the United States would listen to, and really every American, particularly those who care about civil rights, who care about justice, who care about human rights, because what happened in Florida to Dr. Sami Al-Arian was a tremendous Thank you. It was in fact one of the worst things that happened, I think, in the Tampa community that affected civil rights nationally. And I'm going to ask whoever isn't speaking if we can mute all the other microphones, inshallah. So what happened to Dr. Sami was a tremendous travesty of justice, and it happened in Florida. It was politically driven. I would say, Dr. Sami Al-Arian and his family are one of the first political victims of 9/11, who were— whose rights were undermined, whose lives were devastated for political reasons, in complete contravention to the U.S. Constitution, to the principles of liberty and justice and equity. And I'm not going to go into too much detail. I would really want to hear from Dr. Sami himself directly. But I will say this. When I was in federal court—

Rania Alagindi: Right.

Hassan Chibli: several years ago fighting a case where an imam was facing 20 years in jail. He was facing 20 years in jail as an alleged terrorist, and the whole community was scared to stand with that imam. And that's the problem. This is why these malicious, illegal, unconstitutional prosecutions have succeeded in the past, is because the community has been far too often too scared to stand up and to challenge the government in its overreach. So, When we were fighting that case, they were trying to give this imam in Orlando 20 years in jail as allegedly a terrorist, and the only evidence they had that he was a terrorist was his possession of religious literature. So I remember yelling at the US attorney across the room in the courthouse and saying, sir, if you succeed in this case, you could not— you're not only going to lock up this imam, but you can lock up every Muslim and essentially every American because you're going to be prosecuting people based on their exercising their First Amendment protected activity. And I'll never forget, he called me. He didn't say anything in court, but he called me the next day on a secure line. This is one of the top federal prosecutors who was at the U.S. Attorney's Office at the time that Dr. Sami was being prosecuted. And he himself said directly to me, he said, Hasan, what happened to Dr. Sami was BS, was effed up. I can't even repeat the language he said. Was completely politically driven. Was unjust and was wrong, but we couldn't do anything about it. Was coming from DC. So here you have admission of the prosecutors who worked on his case acknowledging what a travesty of justice it was. And I think it's very important for the Tampa community, for our elected officials, for our prosecutors, for our law enforcement, but also for our religious leaders, for our community leaders, for our allies, for our brothers and sisters in Tampa in particular, in the United States in general, to learn from what happened to ensure that never happens again. So without further ado, I do want to welcome. And I'm going to bring our sister Rania back to introduce Dr. Sami, inshallah.

Rania Alagindi: Absolutely. Dr. Sami, as we mentioned, thank you so much. JuzakAllahu khairan for joining us all the way from Turkey. We're very happy to begin with your case that is so important and critical to the history of Muslims in the United States, as Hasan has mentioned. And we're going to dive into your background. I don't want to give too much away. But as I mentioned, you are a lifetime, you know, community activist and social activist. And so that's where I want to start, at the backstory, at the beginning, at the very So if you don't mind sharing with the audience a little bit about what was that social activism work, the campaigns that you were advocating for and that you were involved in prior to your imprisonment. Can you hear me? Yeah. Perfect.

Sami Al-Arian: Am I on now? All right. Thank you so much for inviting me. And thank you, thank you very much for having this series. To inform the American Muslim community and the Americans, the American community at large, about the importance of some of these issues that were, uh, that were begun by the government after 9/11, which devastated many lives, unfortunately. I might be actually one of the lucky ones, having prevailed over the government twice, not once, which is very rare, you know, when it comes to issues and to the cases that After 9/11. In terms of my involvement, I lived in the United States for 4 decades, 40 years, from '75 to 2015. But the, the last 12 years, obviously, I had been involved with the case, with several cases with the U.S. government, but they were as a result of these activities that we had. Clearly, when I was a student, we were were active in many causes, you know, which was the case of the cause of Palestine. I established 2 associations, 2 organizations focused on Palestine. One was the Islamic Association of Palestine in 1981, and one was the Islamic Committee for Palestine in 1988, after the First the father started in 1987. And we were— I was very active on many campuses. I believe dozens of campuses I spoke at, mainly on Palestine, but also on Islam and the West and American foreign policy. And since '97, between '97 and about 2002, also I spoke about civil rights, particularly the use of secret evidence, which was a policy that the Clinton administration started, which was a long-sought policy by the FBI, but they started it in, in, in a law that was not noticed, but clearly the targets were Muslims. There were 29 cases that we counted, 28 of which were against Arabs and Muslims. And we started an organization back in '97 About 30 organizations. We started at 40, and then because we had about several Irish prisoners, that they were represented by different organizations. But after the Good Friday Accord, most of their people were released as a result of that accord. So about 30 organizations. I was elected to lead that organization, and we started a campaign. It was a nationwide campaign, and that was a pretty pretty active, and we were able to go from community awareness, you know, by speaking in different communities around the United States, and then into media. That was the next step. We had at least 50 editorials decrying and condemning the use of secret evidence in immigration courts. And then we moved into the political arena. We also almost had 200 featured stories. From these victims. And then we went to Congress trying to get a law to ban the use of secret evidence. And we spent hours, countless hours. We were able to get about 129 congresspeople to sign on to that law, which was just introduced and co-sponsored by that many. And then we had it passed, actually, the Judiciary Committee was the first law ever passing that targeted Muslims that passed the Judiciary Committee, and then it went to the full House. It was in 2000, so we were really in the campaign season. So I also had connections with both the Democratic candidate, which was Al Gore, you know, through liaison, obviously, and also the Republican one. And eventually, when it became pretty tight in October, you know, they were neck and neck in the polls, I was asked by the Republican liaison if— what would it take for the Muslim community to endorse the candidacy. And, you know, we were not blind to the different policy issues on Palestine, on Iraq, on many other issues. But we were focused as a community at the time. And our philosophy, our vision was that if we win our civil rights battle, then we would be able to have a seat at the table. Our goal was to empower that community, which was pretty much targeted by, by so-called law enforcement agencies. And they started with us with the use of secret evidence, which was outrageous. I want to say also that one of these victims were also my brother-in-law. So we started that campaign, and when it came to the, the issue of who's going to win the elections, and the Republicans thought that Muslims can give them an edge. So they contacted me and asked me what would it take, and I told them 2 things basically. One is to, uh, for that candidate, which was George W. Bush, to condemn the use of secret evidence publicly and also to endorse our bill that was in Congress. And I was working with, with that Republican liaison at the time in order to get it into fast track, and actually pretty close to get it passed in the Senate. On a voice vote to bypass all the different procedural matters. But that would have taken the candidate, you know, to endorse it. So indeed, and it was to my surprise, I didn't expect it, that the following day after he asked me that question is that a question came up during the second debate between Al Gore and George W. Bush about racial profiling, which didn't obviously mention any kind of Muslim or Muslim Americans or any sort. But George W. Bush at the time did exactly what I asked him to do, and he condemned racial profiling, and then he added that there's another form of racial profiling and it's called secret evidence and it's wrong and it's used against Muslim and Arab Americans and it must stop. And then he endorsed the bill that was before Congress, and he called it— Senator Abraham, which was a Republican from Michigan. At any rate, The next day, actually half an hour after that, I get a call from my liaison asking me if we're going to endorse. So I had a conference call with all the Muslim leaders, and we decided to endorse Bush just based on that statement and based on the promise that they will do away with secret evidence. And indeed, after his election, they worked on it. And I got a call, actually, from the same liaison, because we started the campaign again. We never stopped. And they asked for all the Muslim leaders, American Muslim leaders, to come to the White House and celebrate the end of the use of secret evidence. Unfortunately, that day was 9/11.

Rania Alagindi: That day?

Sami Al-Arian: That day. And actually, Colin Wald actually mentions it in his memoir. It's on page 325. He doesn't mention why, but he says that the American Muslim leaders were supposed to meet with Bush that afternoon at 3:05. And the reason was exactly this. They were going to announce the end of the use of secret evidence. And of course, what happened after 9/11 was complete reversal of everything that we were working for.

Rania Alagindi: Absolutely. But that's a very important point of emphasis for people who are unfamiliar with your case. I also want to ask you, Dr. Sami, I apologize. I think some people are having a little bit of difficulty hearing because of the fan. If it's possible to lower the volume a bit.

Sami Al-Arian: I turned it off. I turned it off. I'm good.

Rania Alagindi: Oh, perfect. Alhamdulillah. Thank you. I appreciate it. So, just to set the stage, right, so you were someone who was an activist that was fighting for civil rights, fighting for the cause of Palestine, against the oppression in Palestine, and again advocating for the political engagement of the Muslim community. Your political prominence was such that you were in regular contact with the presidential campaign, that you were— like, you had just— showed for us, going to the White House to actually celebrate, you know, the passage that there would be no more racial profiling as far as what the campaign was standing for. So this is not— you know, you are not just a run-of-the-mill someone in the community who had no political connection, that masha'Allah, you actually had quite significant political prominence before you were imprisoned. So I think that's very important, you know, background for people who, like I said, are not familiar with the case. So take us from that point, right, that you were working hand in hand with presidential campaigns, you have so many contacts, people are relying on you as a liaison for the Muslim community, to then all of a sudden being accused of terrorism. And I think you've said previously that, you know, you were set up or you felt ambushed. Can you share with us a bit of what happened?

Hassan Chibli: And really, before you jump right into that, I think we really need to emphasize the point of this Secret evidence. Can you explain a little bit what that secret evidence, you know, statute was and how, you know, what was that meeting about on the morning of 9/11 and how did 9/11 change the direction of the attempt to repeal that before you jump into the story?

Sami Al-Arian: Right. Well, what happened is that many of the Arab and Muslim community, because of their activism, they were targeted by— they didn't have citizenship. And they were targeted by the authorities. But it was all about freedom of speech. It was all about freedom of association. But they wanted to be silenced. One way to silence them, one way to get them deported, was to use secret evidence to arrest them based on whatever evidence they have. But of course, the American judicial system does not allow the use of secret evidence. You're supposed to have due process. You're supposed to confront the evidence against you. Bring witnesses and challenge these statements. So obviously it went contrary to all constitutional protections, but they thought that if they can allow it in immigration courts, which is not an Article 3 type court system, that maybe they can get away with it. And for a while they did. So they— that was allowed in the '96 law that passed Congress, and it wasn't even noticed because whenever I talked to— and I talked to hundreds of congresspeople They had no idea about it. And whenever they hear about it, they get outraged that how could this happen in America? But indeed, they did work, they did implement it. And as I said, we counted 29 victims, 28 of which were Arabs and Muslims. The only exception was someone with the Tamil Tigers. So that's why we got to work and we got it, you know, wanted to ban it. And we started telling Congress and the media and others, and everybody was outraged. That's why everybody— actually, they didn't call it secret evidence, they call it classified information. It was us who coined that term, and when it was used even by prosecutors and judges, we knew that we've won the battle because no one wants to hear about secret evidence. And even somebody at the presidential level decried it and condemned it. Actually, when we endorsed Bush, I got a call from Al Gore's campaign telling me, what can we do to undo this endorsement? When I told him it's too little, too late, I got a letter from Al Gore personally written, and it was addressed to the Arab and Muslim community, in which he condemns the use of secret evidence and promises to look into the case of Dr. Mazen al-Najjar, who was the last one to be freed, because we went also through the judicial system and we were able to free whoever we could. Those who were deported were too late, but we were able to free all of them by the time we— the campaign came into the 2000s. One administration. At any rate, going to the question of Rania about what happened, you know, of course we started that campaign, we were in a very high situation state, you know, we're winning, we're getting respect, we're getting a seat at the table, we're getting invited, and we're engaging. We didn't engage in other issues that are of concern to the community, but at least we were being respected. By the way, Because of what happened in Florida, remember, we endorsed Bush and Bush won Florida by 537 votes. I campaigned because after we endorsed him, we chose 6 states in which we thought that we can make a difference. And again, I want to emphasize, this wasn't about Iraq, wasn't about Iraq, it wasn't as hot as it was after, and it wasn't about Palestine. It was simply about secret evidence. And we wanted to get that one, that battle won, and then we move on to the next. So at any rate, we got our community in Florida to vote reversal of what they are registered. They are registered 3 to 1 Democrat and they voted 3 to 1 Republican. When we did the study afterwards, we found that 74% of Florida American Muslim community voted for Bush. And actually I had the names because we were able to gather them and poll them in the summer of 2001. The Republican Party actually recognized this, and they invited me on the eve of the inauguration. And I had John Sununu, who was the chief of staff of Bush Senior, and Newt Gingrich, who was the Speaker of the House, and Tom Davis, who was the chairman of the congressional committee, thanking me personally for making this happen, because they thought if it wasn't for Florida, Bush would not have been president. And of course we have regrets now, but that's what the case at the time, because Bush of course betrayed everything he said he was standing for. At any rate, that— so we did make a difference. Our involvement in politics, in the political process, made a difference. And actually we were recognized for that. And that's why they were going to deliver the victory against secret evidence for us, which is basically— what's secret evidence? Very simply, they bring the accused And they tell the judge, we have to go to a different chamber. They give him evidence, and then this is literally what happened. The judge will come back and says, okay, what do you say about what they told me? And I cannot tell you what they told me. Obviously, you can't say anything because you don't know what the evidence is. And in all cases, they were denied bail and they were put under deportation orders. And of course, that could not— and now we could see this happening also in the trials that took place after 9/11, you know, in the Patriot Act. It's not the same, but it's pretty similar of how much— and of course I had to fight this during my trial. But just going back to Rania's question about what I have to face, of course after that, because I was very active on the Palestinian front, I was targeted by many Zionist organizations in which they proudly said that they were behind my persecution and prosecution. They never denied it. They were trying to get me fired from the university for a long time. They failed. I had been suspended twice before, per different investigations, because of the different organizations that we established that were academic in nature. And after investigations by the university, it came out that these were, you know, excellent organizations, academic organizations, that they benefited the community and the university. But after the change of the president, another president came who was pretty Zionist, and she had her own foundation actually in Israel, her family. And she was under tremendous pressure by the same groups, and she kept saying, I don't have any grounds to dismiss him. But after 9/11, I had— I was ambushed, of course, by a setup interview. Now we know the details of this, and I know who set them up and what happened. And actually, I was set up in the studio by having certain things fed to me. It wasn't a live interview, so that I will be startled. And then, of course, I was ambushed. At any rate, after that, this interview was used to threaten my life, and the university used that to suspend me because they were trying to protect me. Meanwhile, they were trying to find out some reasons, justification to fire me. So when they said, we're going to fire him, it was in December 2001, 3 months Remember, the interview was 2 weeks after 9/11, and I was led to believe at the time that I'm there to present the Muslim community response, that we have been outraged at this tragedy. At any rate, when they tried to dismiss me, they sent me a notice. Immediately, the media, you know, there were many editorials standing by me. And then one of the most important organizations defending professors' tenure, AAUP, American Association of University Professors, professors came in my support, and then they threatened the university, if they don't reinstate me by the fall semester, they will be put on a blacklist, all right, which was— which is a pretty big deal. So, the university president was basically trapped. She will either have to bring me back, or she will be blacklisted. So, she went to the law enforcement agencies publicly. And then the prosecutor, and that's what Hassan was referring to at the beginning, the assistant attorney in the district announced the empaneling of grand jury, which is typically in secret, but here it is in public. And then nothing happens throughout the summer.

Rania Alagindi: Mm-hmm.

Sami Al-Arian: So, they had one week to bring me back. So, they contact my lawyer and tell him, all right, we're going to offer him $1 million. If he would resign. So I told my lawyer at the time, a labor lawyer, let me see it in writing, and then I will consider. But instead of that, they sued me in court. And what happened— again, we get that from their lawyer— is that she went to the board, to the board chairman of the university, and he told her, I've been calling this guy this and that, and he's telling me give him $1 million. That's not going to happen. He was a Jeb Bush appointee. So he goes to Jeb Bush and asks him to intervene.

Rania Alagindi: Yeah.

Sami Al-Arian: And then Jeb Bush asked for time. So what do they do? They go and sue me in court, buying time before they get blacklisted by the AUP. And then Jeb Bush goes to the White House and presses the case, we need to do something for this guy. And now, after I was arrested, I could see in the grand jury testimony how this was accelerated in the months of September, October, November, December, January, until we get indicted in February. For 5 months, So many lies were told to this grand jury. It's unbelievable type of case. I've never imagined— I knew that they were cooking something, but I never imagined to be that expansive, in which at the end they were calling, they were asking for 3 life sentences plus 220 years. It was outrageous. But that's the type of thing. It was a political case from start to finish. The university was pushing for it. Jeb Bush got involved. And then in Washington, we know— Right. This from, from inside the Justice Department is that the prosecutors in Tampa flew to Washington telling them that we cannot prove this. And they kept saying, you have to do it, it's not your decision to make. So they bring all this killing and maiming and, and extortion and all kinds of outrageous, uh, uh, charges that you could never imagine that, you know, this would be in America. And what What evidence did he bring to the court? You know, articles I wrote or articles I approved in the publication I was editing or conferences that I convened and speakers I brought in or rallies we did. I mean, it was all kind of what you, you know, what you call First Amendment type activities. Even in one of the sessions, in one of the evidence they brought was a dream One of my co-defendants, you know, I have 3 co-defendants, Sami Hammouda, who passed away, may Allah, you know, have mercy on his soul, and Ghassan Ballout from Chicago and Hatem Fariz in Tampa. These are people who were railroaded because they wanted to get me. I mean, that's how outrageous this is. They go and bring people out of their communities and uproot them out of their families so that they can get one person.

Rania Alagindi: Well, that's what we want to actually—

Sami Al-Arian: It just gets one in one way. That he had a dream about me talking to him about Palestine, and he was telling that dream to his friend in Chicago, and that dream became evidence against me. It wasn't even my dream. But that dream was told to the jury, and somehow this is something to be looked at as evidence of a crime.

Hassan Chibli: Dr. Sami, we have a big audience of over 100 people watching us live right now, and I think it's very important that they hear— and this is the first time I think you're telling your story from beginning to end to an American So, to be clear and to recap, you're in a position of tremendous influence. You literally helped deliver the election to George Bush under the promise that he gave you to help eliminate secret evidence. You're making tremendous impact nationally in the political scene. You're at— you're just about to get the idea of secret evidence thrown out, and you're having a tremendous impact. And you are Palestinian. That made you the target of, you know, extreme Zionists, groups that were critical of you for your support for the Palestinian people and the oppression and the occupation that they face. So they targeted you. They wanted you kicked out of the university. The USF president at the time caved into that pressure, tried to fire you, was facing tremendous backlash as a result from the union because her attempt to fire you was unjust. And as a result, since she couldn't really get her way legally, In terms of your employment, she went to Bush, Jeb Bush. She went to the White House. She went to the prosecution to try to get you essentially attacked as a terrorist or somebody who supports terrorism, simply misrepresenting things you've done in your First Amendment activity. You know, it's mind-boggling that it got that far. And I just want to sort of recap it very quickly for the audience. So what happened at that point? SubhanAllah, they went so desperate, so far as to pressure. And really, the point that I wanted to emphasize was what you said hit home, because what you just said happened is exactly what the Tampa U.S. Attorney's Office, off the record, told me, their top prosecutors. You just said right now, you know, the U.S. president is pushing them to prosecute you, and then it's coming from D.C. down to prosecute you. And the prosecutors in Tampa are telling the guys in DC that, listen, there's no evidence to prosecute this guy, and DC's insisting. And that's exactly what the U.S. attorney at the time told me in Tampa. He said, Hassan, we don't want to do this. We know it's BS. We know it's effed up. We know it's unjust. But DC is forcing us to do it. It's shocking. Very shocking.

Sami Al-Arian: It is.

Rania Alagindi: And thank you for that recap, Hassan. You put it— so this is what we want to emphasize, right, is that this is a case that was Right. If it wasn't for the political agenda, if it wasn't for that political connection, there is absolutely no basis, right? You haven't committed a crime. You haven't done anything. And there's no evidence, like you said. So, actually, just to show the audience this point, because there was no evidence to the extent that you were actually acquitted of almost all of your charges, and there were some, just a few charges out of the 51, I believe, that were brought against you, that was 10 to 2 in favor of not guilty. But so I just want to roll this 30-second clip to share with the audience, and then come back and And discuss further, inshallah.

Sami Al-Arian: Your Side at 6. Tonight, terrorism in Tampa. After years of investigation by government agencies, the feds make their move and arrest suspended USF professor Sami Al-Arian. In his capacity as a leader in the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, he directed the audit of all monies and property of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad I was the only person who was not convicted. And I was put in solitary confinement 23 hours a day, and sometimes for weeks, 24 hours a day. I wasn't allowed even to see my attorneys when she comes in. I wasn't allowed to call my families. For 6 months, I was not allowed to make a phone call to A my family. I single was in solitary confinement for 6 months. phone call.

Rania Alagindi: So, you know, like you said in the clip, that you were not convicted. You were acquitted, and amazingly detained for 9 years following your acquittal. So, we know— we spoke about secret evidence. And what other conditions have made that acceptable, made that possible? You know, if we can speak maybe a little bit to the Patriot Act. And then I'd like to speak also to the conditions that you were in, of course, and the type of support that you had and didn't have during your imprisonment. Yes.

Sami Al-Arian: Well, after I was arrested, of course, they were trying to railroad me in order to get some kind of conviction. So they put me under a very restrictive environment that no other federal prisoner had to go through. You know, I had a very difficult time. First of all, they didn't want to give me any evidence. And then when they were forced by the judge They, they gave us over 400,000 documents over, uh, I believe 21,000 hours.

Rania Alagindi: Because they were— your phone, can you speak about when they started to collect this evidence and if that was illegal?

Sami Al-Arian: It took 10 years. From 1993, they claimed, until 2003, they were recording about 18 lines. Anything that I had access to, including the school that I founded, it was monitored. The mosques, you know, which I was president of, was monitored. My wife's phone was monitored. You know, anything that I may have had access to was monitored and was being recorded. So they had about 470,000 or 471,000 phone calls and faxes and about 21,000 hours. And then they have over 400,000 documents, 600 videotapes. 2,000 audio tapes, and then they brought 65,000 Hebrew documents in which obviously this was, was, was, uh, they were trying just to, to get us thwarted because they were not going to use any one of them. And but my lawyers were pretty smart. At any rate, I mean, they just dumped all this on us and saying this is evidence, and you don't know what the evidence is, and you had no idea. And then they don't allow you to, to examine this evidence. So they gave it to the lawyer and I can't see it. I'm in federal prison. I'm the only a person who is not convicted in that federal prison, which is 75 miles away from where the, the, the, the, the trial is supposed to be conducted, and they are not equipped to show you any kind of evidence. It's a prison. It's not a place where you have access to the documents. So they bring you every couple of weeks or every couple of months to look, you know, for a couple of days. And of course you can't see. How are you going to hear 21,000 hours, let alone what they have used? You don't know what they're going to use until Much later into the process. So it was an unbelievable case. And after a while, you know, I tried my best to see how we're gonna defend this. And then after a while, you give up and just leave it in the hands of God. You said, okay, I cannot do anything really. I mean, they had something like 120 accounts, bank accounts, that they were— it was incredible. You know, my lawyer in his opening statement used something I think was very profound.

Rania Alagindi: Yeah.

Sami Al-Arian: He brought 2 blown-up pictures taken by the FBI when they raided my house twice. They took many books and they used the title of these books, the title of these books, one of them was written when I was like 10 years of age, as evidence against me that I was reading this literature. All right, so that was by itself evidence against me and he said to the jury, you know, this is what the case is about. When they invaded his house, when they raided his house, they took this, and he had the picture of the books, and they left this because I owned a gun. They left the gun. Twice they come to my home and twice they leave me the gun. If this was about violence, why would even they— would they leave the gun? So, and that's exactly what it was. It was about what I, what I said, what I, you know, what, what I promoted, why— what I advocated. That's what it was about. And that's why the jury came later and said There was nothing there. I mean, why would the jury acquit somebody if there was overwhelming evidence, as they claimed? 2 of our defendants were acquitted outright. And unfortunately, you know, the other charges that we were not acquitted of, the vote at the time was 10 to 2 in our favor. That's what a juror told me when I met in 2015, 9 years after the case. I met one of the jurors and he gave me the full story. What happened inside. And unfortunately, the judge stopped. He could have— he— we had 4 other alternates in the building. He could have, you know, 2 of them didn't want to discuss it anymore. He could have exchanged them because that's what the law allows him. But when he saw the partial verdict, the judge, a day before he stopped the, the deliberation, he looked and he saw over, uh, he saw 78 not guilty. All right. And there were a few charges that, that were not Rendered yet, but even though they voted 10 to 2 several times. And then he stopped it because he wanted to give the government another chance at this trial, because he knew that this was not going in their favor, unfortunately.

Hassan Chibli: Dr. Sami, you know, you faced dozens of frivolous charges, pretty much all of them based on your exercise of the First Amendment. I think it goes back to the idea that the pen is mightier than the sword. They didn't fear the gun. They didn't fear violence. They feared your intellectual ideas, your challenging of injustice, your condemnation of Israeli human rights abuses, etc., and you're mobilizing the Muslim community politically. But it seems like, you know, going on what you're saying, that the whole arrest process and trial process was almost made for TV, again, having sort of a chilling effect on the Muslim community, terrorizing the Muslim community. I mean, you mentioned, you know, thousands of hours of recorded audio. I know they were recording many people in Tampa. Could you talk a little bit about the actual arrest? I mean, we saw the video. How did the news know to show up at your house? During the arrest. I mean, it was a made-for-TV moment. So tell us a little bit about the arrest and the investigation, and then even your treatment in jail, and even what the guards told you, the whole shebang, if you can, please. Walk us through that from your experience.

Sami Al-Arian: It was obviously for— I mean, it was 5 o'clock in the morning. They knocked on the door. They lied. You know, I immediately knew what it was, so I went there to make sure I make wudu, you know, ablution, because I knew I wouldn't have that opportunity. And I took I told my wife, try to keep them for a couple of minutes until I get dressed and make wudu. And of course she tried. They threatened they're gonna knock down the door. So she opens the door and they come, you know, it's like 20, 30 people coming in a very vicious way. I get arrested. And the guy who was the head of the FBI at the time, he took me aside, he handcuffed me, and then he whispered in my ears and he said, uh, uh, you know, um— You're a terrorist. Something like, you know, you're a terrorist, but he says it in a way that it took almost a minute. He's trying to, to, to say it very slowly. And then he put me in a car and walked me through and go the road that goes to the mosque that I founded and I was president of. And he said, you will never see this mosque ever again. And the funny part is that I gave the khutbah 2 weeks before I came to Turkey in that mosque, and I recited that, that event, that it's not what their will, it's God's will what happens At the end, what prevails at the end. And then they took me to one of my co-defendants and they start taping us in the car, hoping that somehow they're gonna get some incriminating evidence, which of course the judge says there was nothing there. And then they, you know, they put me in a very restrictive environment in which I couldn't see the evidence against me, I couldn't see my lawyers properly, and we had to struggle. And so I went through several hunger strikes, you know, decrying this. And of course I went through 2 other hunger strikes after the case ended, and they started a new case against me because this was very unusual for them to lose a case and then they have to give it up. And then I was about to leave the country because we had a deal, you know, they will, they will not prosecute anymore, so they will drop everything. And I, I agreed that I will give up all my rights living in the United States and I would leave. And we took the agreement of, of the Egyptian government at the time, but then they started a new case and then I had to Start new hunger strikes. At any rate, the conditions were horrible. I mean, I called them Guantanamo Plus. Most of the Guantanamo prison restrictions were applied to me, and the plus being in the United States, you still have some access to your civil lawyers and this. But the guards themselves, at the beginning, of course, they thought— I mean, I had a guard to watch me 24/7. And then after a while, it was very expensive and And it was impossible. And then they took us to the SHU unit in a federal prison, which is given to punish prisoners. I mean, it's created to punish those who are— to discipline prisoners. And that's— these are the type of conditions we're under. And even with that, we didn't have the full rights of those who are being punished, convicted felons punished in federal prison. We were even having more restrictions. You know, I had to— every time I wanted to use a pen, or I wanted to get warm clothes during the wintertime, I had to go to a judge because they wouldn't allow us. And it was psychological pressure applied on you so that you can accept defeat, accept that you are going to get to prison for a long time. And fortunately, you know, we had a good team of lawyers and we were strong mentally, in which we didn't give up and we continued to struggle. And of course, they applied all kinds of fear tactics in the community. They went and visited every member, every prominent member in our community, and they threatened them and they intimidated them. So my family immediately was distraught because even in the school which I founded at the time, my kids were kicked out. And just imagine the type of isolation they had to live through during these times where all their friends have abandoned most of— let's say most of their friends abandoned them. Luckily, the ones who stood by us and stood by the— by our case and by family were non-Muslims because they knew us. You know, I had a pastor coming to see me, uh, when I, you know, almost once a week every Tuesday. And most of our community members at the time were very afraid even to mention the case or to— because of the way they had been treated by the FBI, the intimidation and the threats that they had received. And, of course, that over time changed, luckily. And when we won the case, people were celebrating, were happy about it, and thought, OK, this nightmare is over. And then I had to face another case in Virginia. And then I'm going to prison to prison. And, by the way, when I went to prison, I saw a different kind of America. People think America is the land of the free and the home of the brave and equal opportunity and due process. That's not the case at all. Minorities are being railroaded by this justice system of justice. They have no justice whatsoever. If you're Black or Latino and you get arrested in this country, good luck. Over half of the prisoners I saw were from these communities. They were treated horribly by the system. I was in it for a very, very brief time. You know, I had many partners when I was— I went to 14 different prisons. I was going from prison to prison all over the United States. So I would be with a few days with different prisoners. Most of them are African Americans. And I would see an 8th grade person who can barely read and write— that's what he is— and he's being accused with so many charges. And when you delve into it, you know that these, a lot of them, were false charges. And he gets 16 and 20 years after being promised, accept this plea deal, and all what you get is 4 or 5 years. Is happy. He didn't do anything. He just were in the wrong place at the wrong time. And then he signed something. I read his plea deal. I said, this is not what being promised. You know, this is what— at the end, he ends up with 16 and 20 years. And there's just, you know, case after case after case. All these people are innocent, and yet the system doesn't treat them as such. And they become victims, and they fall victims to this system of injustice. And I think there has to be a movement in this country to really advocate for these people, because no one cares about them. They come from from broken families. And actually they come sometimes innocent, and they leave hardened criminals because of the type of injustice that they had been subjected to while in prison and the type of things, the way they have been treated also inside prison. It's a travesty of justice. And unfortunately, most people do not go through this, especially, you know, the well-off, the white community, even though maybe half of the prisoners are white community. But when you look at the numbers, the aggregate numbers, It's proportionately, you know, the whole system is stacked against minorities.

Hassan Chibli: Dr. Samir, before Rania moves the conversation along, I just wanted to ask you, did you have in all those years any particular conversations or interactions with prison guards or while you were in jail that sort of stood out to you?

Sami Al-Arian: Absolutely. You know, after a while they get to know you. I was listening one time to WMNF, and they were having a conversation about my case while in prison. And then during the conversation, you know, they were talking about how bad a guy I am and all that, and all, you know, that is some people. And then the nurse calls from prison and he says, I am the nurse in that prison, and I've, you know, I'm quoting here, he says, I've never seen a nicer person ever, because obviously she is subjected to all kinds of sexual harassments. I mean, obviously that's not something that we would ever do. So, and then the guards themselves, at the beginning they were so harsh, you know, at the beginning.

Rania Alagindi: Sure.

Sami Al-Arian: They wouldn't even carry my books when I go and see my attorneys. And I, you know, you're handcuffed from the back, they refuse to carry your books. So I had for about 9 weeks carried them on my back and I would be hunched back. You know, this is how I'd be going, walking almost half a mile to get to my attorney. And then after one of the captains saw them and he started reprimanding them and they allowed for me to be handcuffed from the front so I can copy, so I can— So you could read? carry my books. At any rate, yeah, after a while, you know, they became friends and they start seeing the good in people rather than the bad that they have been told. But I remember also in one of the prisons when I was in Virginia, the head of the prison, you know, he was a military guy, he had a rank. I think he wasn't a captain or a colonel. I mean, he was something, I forgot what his rank was. Lieutenant. Major. He was a major. And then he would bring me once a month, and he would spend with me 2, 3 hours. He said, I cannot have any intellectual discussion by anybody here except you. And he was very— and he had, at the time, he didn't put me in solitary. He put me with 22 other prisoners, all of them African American, in the same pod. But you would be 2 and 2 in different pods. And I told him if he had been pushed or advised that I stay in solitary. He said, of course. You know, I get this, but I am, I am, I am in charge here. I'm not going to do that. And that told me why in every other prison I was in solitary. I was in 43 straight months in solitary when I was arrested before I was allowed for 75 days in the population, and then I was transferred to different prisons. But in this prison, I was with other prisoners, and that's one of the reasons, because he didn't, uh, he didn't follow instructions. He thought that there was something wrong in this. And luckily also, I, you know, when my judge— I finally— this case came to a criminal judge, you know, Judge Brinkema. She also saw something wrong in this case. And when she started asking the government to bring the prosecutors from Florida so they can talk about the case, the same prosecutor probably you talked to, they refused. And then when they refused, she knew that there's something wrong here. So she left the case in limbo. She didn't rule. She left me under house arrest for 5 years. And you were in limbo for 5 years? Until the government gave up and asked for the case to be dismissed so that they can, you know, deport me. But the issue here, obviously, is that this was a political case from start to finish. They didn't get the conviction that they sought, thank God. But I think this is the exception, not the rule. We see in the case of Afia Siddiqui, of the Holy Land Five, of Jamil— I mean, all the cases that they're going to talk about. These are the type of injustices that have been taking place that, unfortunately, I'm very distraught and I'm very upset that the American Muslim community has not been at the forefront. If these people are railroaded by the government for dozens and life sentences and we don't do anything about it, what is it that you are fighting for, really? What is the value? What are the values that you hold dearly? That you want to go and have a sit-down at the White House, that you want to be invited to some event? Is that what you're looking for? That's not power. This is a cave-in. This is a defeat, in fact. Your fight today as the American Muslim community is to make sure you get all these people the justice that is due to them. What happened on 9/11 is tragic, but the American Muslim community should not be the community that pays the price for some criminals who committed a tragic and criminal act. That is not how you face this. You know, OK, I am among the lucky ones. You know, yes, I suffered, my family suffered for a few years in prison, solitary and house arrest and all that. I'm still among the lucky ones. But we have dozens and dozens of our people in prison today for nothing but because of their belief and association, or they were in the wrong place at the wrong time, or they were targeted because of this, as we see in entrapment cases. I hope people could also look up the, you know, your organization, and which you are a member of also, Coalition for Civil Freedom, in which they assembled all these. They are the only organization today that is actually talking to and advocating these cases and talking to the families, because these families have been abandoned by our community. And I think it's high time. For us to stop this passivity towards these cases, or as if they never happened, and we just look and, you know, to something else, something different. I am really angry about and upset about this, uh, specifically when we go and try to promote political candidates without talking with them about these cases and what they're going to do about it. That's not what we did in 2000. In 2000, we will go to these candidates And we asked them where they stood in seeking evidence before we give them support. And today, that should be the litmus test. We should go to any political candidate, talk to them about the system of injustice, the political prisoners that we have today, and ask them what they're going to do about it before we give them any kind of support.

Rania Alagindi: Dr. Sami, you put it so well. That's actually the next segment of what we'd like to talk about, is government overreach both then and today. And you put it so well in the connection, right? I see a lot in the feed, the news feed, in the past few weeks that we've seen protests in the United States, that this is so new, I can't believe this is America, I can't believe that this is our democracy, I can't believe that this is happening, I can't believe that we have a military state. And that's really what this series was aimed at, is at showing that this is a longstanding history that we have. And if we don't know how these 2 instances are related, then, like you said, we're actually powerless to make change. And if we don't understand how the police brutality and the police state that we currently have is a result of us not doing anything towards these systems, civil rights violations, then ultimately, you know, we're wasting our time or we're not going to move ourselves forward. So I did want to highlight on a couple of things that you mentioned, especially around the fear tactics used to silence the Muslim American community, and so that, you know, you lose support by making everyone very scared. And before I ask you those questions, we have a small clip that I'd like to play, also from 2010, because you also— you talked about the community support and also about, you know, ultimately What you had to do to gain your freedom after 12 years. So let's play the clip and then come back, inshallah.

Sami Al-Arian: Fox News alert on a story we brought to you last hour. Screen left, Rashad Hussain, the president's new pick as liaison to the Muslim world. Screen right, Sami Al-Arian, a man who pleaded guilty years ago to helping a dangerous terror group. One author says Hussain expressed sympathy Openly for Al-Arian. The White House now telling us that is not true.

Rania Alagindi: So, the platform aside, there's 2 things that come up in that clip. The first is that the fear, right? They don't want anyone in the community to support you, that any type of association or closeness, proximity to you, is guilt by association. So, can you speak a little bit to those fear tactics? Because that's something that we see currently, right? We see that community activists are targeted, and then We try to scare other community members from supporting them or from speaking out on their behalf. So can you speak to that, especially within our community?

Sami Al-Arian: Sure. Let's bring something to the fore here very quickly. Who are trying to silence us? I think this is something that we need to— those who are trying to silence us, they are special interest groups. Either they're trying to promote Israel's agenda in the United States, you know, many Zionist organizations and many Islamophobes, as well as those who have beef with Muslims. I mean, they obviously, they don't want the Muslims to be empowered or to have a seat at the table. So what they do is that they use these tactics, you know, you being antisemitic, you're being anti-Israeli, anti-Zionist, anti— you know, of course today a lot of people would say obviously America has changed. America is not the same that we were facing 30 years ago, 20 years ago. I think we are moving in the right direction in terms of people knowing today the type of state settler colonialist occupation that takes place today in Palestine. A lot of people didn't think about that, and today we have a different America. But putting that aside, those who are trying to silence you and intimidate you They have special interests. And I think we need to deconstruct these people and say, what does it mean to be antisemitic? And what does it mean to be anti-Zionist? And there's a huge difference between the two. And I think this needs obviously a larger conversation because these soundbites in which— and it's very unfortunate that someone like Rashad Hussain would deny something that he had said. I think he should have been man enough to stand by his convictions rather than trying to escape into something that I didn't say this, I didn't say that. But, you know, people have different things. I'm not going to hold them responsible because obviously you have careers and you have other interests in mind. But we need to stand up for our rights and we should not be intimidated. And I think that's a lesson to be learned. Once you have been a target to these people, they will never let go until you completely submit. To their will. And I don't think we want— we need to submit to their will. And I think also we need to expose those people inside us who are trying to take credit for something that they do not deserve. You know, I have seen some of these people today, they're trying to promote Biden and to speak on behalf of the Muslim community, particularly an organization like Engage, which they have a checkered history when they talk about you know, MLI and trying to dance with Zionists. And they try to infiltrate our community and claim that they're going to bring a million votes. And they have different agendas. And I think we need to speak out about this and not allow those people who have agenda that aligns with Zionist imperatives in America and make them a spokesperson for us. I think our people need to wake up and need to stand up for justice. We are not going to be empowered by simply kissing the hands or the behinds of the people in power today. You gain that respect when you win your civil rights battles. You cannot jump into this and say somehow you're going to get empowered. People do not respect that. African Americans, Latino Americans, other Americans, they got respect when they won these kind of battles. And if you don't stand up for your rights, if you railroad your community, those who are in prison, those who have been repressed, and those who have been imprisoned, and those who have been basically railroaded, and you think that over their bodies you're going to get higher and you're going to get into a position of power, you're mistaken. What you are, you'll be nothing but, you know, I'm sorry to say, Uncle Tom, somebody who is a stooge, being you, so that you can, you can be celebrated as a symbol of progress, while in fact you betrayed your community. So I think this is a moment of truth for many of our people in our community, that they need to stand up and take strong stands on government overreach and government prosecution, and to escape and not to run from it. We need— you know, that's how Martin Luther King became Martin Luther King, a giant in civil rights. Not because he kissed the hands, because he confronted power and he said no to power from a position of strength, from a position of support of his people. That's how Malcolm X became a legend, not only for the American Muslim community but for the whole, for all of America. African Americans today are more proud of Malcolm X than even the Muslim Americans in there, because he stood up and he spoke truth to power. That's what we need to do. That's the type of people, that's the type of leaders we want, not the leaders that are going to sacrifice our rights because somehow they think this is the road to empower our community. It's the opposite. You empower your community by standing up And sacrificing. And in that process, you get the respect that is due. And in that process, you inform the public, you get the media on your side, you get the politicians to adhere to this, and eventually the courts.

Rania Alagindi: Absolutely. I mean, I think everyone would be in agreement that we absolutely need moral integrity in our political engagement. We cannot engage politically for the sake of engagement, but we have to make sure that it means something when we do. And there's one other question that I don't want to leave out. Before we wrap up with the final few questions about what it means for our community now and what we need to be doing now, which you've already touched on. But before we get to that, because, like we said, we have a very diverse crowd with us here today, and, you know, for some people, especially our allies, you know, when they see the case without understanding the details that we went over today, you know, they say it kind of seems like someone did something wrong or suspicious, and they went to jail. You know, they don't really see what the issue is. Especially because that clip that we just saw, it said that, you know, guilty of or convicted. So can you just touch on the plea deal that you ultimately were forced to take in order to exile to Turkey, and just speak to briefly the options that you had, if you had any alternatives, you know, after your 12 years of detainment and imprisonment, and unfortunately the label and the stigma that that comes with, but it's needed? to be reunited with your family, as you had mentioned, if you can touch on that briefly. Yeah.

Hassan Chibli: And on that note, Dr. Sami, and this is similar to what I also wanted to ask, is if you could actually talk people through— so we sort of understood the background of how, you know, Judy Genshaft from, from USF pressured them to prosecute you, because otherwise she was facing a minimum, you know, million-dollar lawsuit in wrongful termination, being blacklisted. But can you then explain then, yeah, the charges that you faced initially, the, you know, the process of the hung jury, then if you were The refiling, and then I know they were trying to pressure you to falsely testify against people and you refused to do that, and then you were locked up. So can you just walk people chronologically through what happened from then until your freedom now where you're at? If you can just chronologically walk people through that, inshallah.

Sami Al-Arian: Very well, very well. Thank you very much. Well, as I said before, the university started the process to terminate my employment back in December 2001. And of course, there was an outcry from the union, within the university, within the state and world, and across the United States, across the nation. And then I had many, many articles and editorials coming to my defense, including Washington Post, New York Times, Miami Herald, all kinds of newspapers around the country. And of course, as I said, AUP got involved. They had a committee that came to USF and they gave them a warning. If I'm not reinstated by August, they're gonna be blacklisted, they're gonna be censured. Basically, a censure would mean you will kill the university when it's censured. They cannot bring prominent professors or honor societies and so on and so forth. And she couldn't afford to do that. And with the union and all the support I'm getting from different educational institutions, she had a decision to make. So she went in February of 2002 and begging the U.S. Attorney to do something about it. He promised her, he impaneled the grand jury, but nothing happened. So by the summer, when the time came that she had to make a decision, she offered me orally that deal. She went to Dick Beard, who was appointed by Bush as the chairman of the board at USF. He said, there is no way in hell I'm going to approve this. Leave it to me. He goes to Jeb Bush. Who goes to Washington. So that process becomes accelerated out of Washington to push for some kind of an indictment to get her out of this dilemma. But since she had to make a deal by August, she goes and sues me in court in order to buy time. And that's what Jeb Bush asked. He asked to buy time. And of course he lied when he said he didn't know me. Of course he knew me. And we had a relationship which, you know, and I have letters from him, by the way, and a letter from Bush too, you know, George W. Bush thanking and actually apologizing to my wife when they had this mishap about my son the previous summer. At any rate, so Jeb Bush goes to Washington. They start now— I can see the grand jury accelerating. Usually grand juries meet 2 or 3 days a month. This one was meeting like 2 to 3 days a week, and they're trying to get some kind of an indictment. And obviously, I, I said, I laid out the case in which the Tampa prosecutors thought that this was way overreach. Including all the lies that were told to the grand jury, to the grand jurors, because I saw them, you know, and my lawyer, of course, tried to question the FBI agent at the time, but sometimes he wasn't allowed to ask the question. At any rate, so we get into that situation, and then we had a trial after 6 months. This was, by the way, the longest trial after 9/11 since then. 6 months from opening statement to verdict. There were trials who were more than 6 months, they would be suspended, but this was a continuous trial from start to finish, from June 6th to December 6th, when the— and the judge unfortunately stopped the deliberation because he knew at the time that this was going— not going in the favor of the government. So some of the charges were not rendered. In other words, they were not adjudicated. They were not— they didn't have a final verdict. So they were hung. You know, even if you have 10 to 2 in your favor, it's still hung. So those charges, the government wanted to do something about it, and they had an embarrassment, an absolute embarrassment, after saying that this is the most dangerous person in the Western Hemisphere. That's basically what they were advocating. Now they didn't get a single— out of 100 charges, they couldn't get a single conviction. That was a huge embarrassment for them. So they went and tried to say, you know, that we're going to retry the case on the remaining charges. But the remaining charges were BS, because this whole thing was constructed on being a conspiracy, you know, that they didn't find anything for me. So supposedly I was in touch with Sami Hammouda, who was acquitted, so he was removed. And then he was in touch with, you know, the 2 others, and one of them was removed. So it was very weak link that they wanted to retry this case. So they put a lot of pressure on my lawyer, and now I spent $1 million. by the way, on this case. I have zero money left. And my, you know, justice is very expensive in the United States.

Rania Alagindi: Uh-huh.

Sami Al-Arian: If you don't know that, just look at my case. And I would never go for government-appointed lawyers because I can't trust them. I had 3 appointed to me, and I dismissed all of them. And I had to actually represent myself for several months because I didn't know who to trust. But I trusted my lawyers, really great lawyers, you know, Linda Moreno and Bill Moffitt, one of the greatest lawyers you can ever find, and because they were committed lawyers, not just they are brilliant, but they were very committed to the case. But at that time, I paid over $1 million. I had no money left. And they, you know, if you want to bring them, you need another $1 million. And they were very exhausted at the time. And I couldn't. And then the judge says, you're going to have a retrial in 2 months. Now, I don't have lawyers. And I, you know, and I didn't know what to do. And now the judge was was pressing into different directions, things that he had denied them, he starts approving to them. You know, we were— you know, I can go on and on about the jury, you know, selection, how some jurors were, were, were extremely biased and what we had to do to remove them. And now we could see some of these jury questionnaires are being changed by the judge in the— had there been another trial. At any rate, so there was this And with all this, now it's going more into their favor, even though it has become a much weakened case. We get, you know, offer from the government say if he can plead to anything and leave the country, we'll drop everything. So my lawyer said, this is your best bet. You don't even have lawyers. So I said, I didn't do anything wrong. What am I supposed to plead to? They said, you know, my lawyer said, it doesn't matter. I'm trying to get you out. So he asked the government for a plea, uh, example. So they basically put everything back into that, uh, plea, you know, all the things that they were— then I totally rejected. And I would plead to 2 charges, uh, and I said absolutely not. What I would do is I will choose what I had think I had done that I, I am not ashamed of. But even— and then they can— and I would not Plead to anything unless I get out of the prison immediately. So I write my plea agreement, by the way. All the other acts that are in the plea agreement, it is something I wrote, not the government. The government gave me a version that I totally rejected, and I put all you know red marks. So what did I plead to? I pled to you know not telling a journalist the name of Ramadan Abdullah, which it was true. I didn't tell him the name. I pled to the to the that I hired a lawyer for brother for my brother-in-law. Which I did hire a lawyer, one of the best brilliant lawyers in the United States. Today he is the legal director of the ACLU. I pled to the fact that I hired one of the excellent researchers from Europe to the research center I founded at USF. These are the 3 things I pled to. And then they had to associate some kind of a charge that will be the minimum, the minimum the minimum charge, that will have the minimum sentence. So they chose one that had the minimum, which was 5 years. And since I had already served my time, then the issue was, will be time off or time out, but that would be up to the judge. That was the agreement. And of course, I was very reluctant even with that. I consulted 13 lawyers one by one, and all of them told me, you would be out of your mind. Because he said, you think you're going to stay in the United States? Forget it. I mean, that's not going to happen. And the point is, if this is what you get, you get out of here, take it. So I start consulting 13 lawyers and, of course, my family. No money. The case is in 3 weeks, 4 weeks. It's going to start, and you don't even have lawyers. And now you could see that the judge is not on your side. What are you going to do? That's what— this is not about justice. I learned that the hard way. My lawyer told me from day one, the American justice system is not about justice. You know, I— at the beginning, I thought, you know, we need to present facts. So I was preparing. You know, I— you know, my lawyer was sometimes making fun of the whole situation. He said, OK. I said, who are our witnesses? He said, I don't know yet. I said, well, I have all these witnesses. They're going to bring the whole story. And he said, all right, give me the list of witnesses. I gave him a list of 275 witnesses, and he was— Wow. He was laughing. And at the end, he presented zero witnesses. He didn't present a single witness. He said, this is not about us proving the case. This is about them proving the case. And I had to learn a lot about the American judicial system throughout this process. At any rate, so we agree, and we go, and we were afraid that the prosecutors, that this is going to be some kind of a trick. So we said, what if the judge does not approve it? You know, I will have already been in public saying that I, I agreed to plead, and then the judge doesn't approve it. Now I am in the eyes of the public as being guilty without getting anything in return. They said, okay, we're gonna have a secret meeting with the judge. So we come and have a secret hearing with the judge that no one knew about, and then the judge accepts everything. Then my lawyers push it and said, can we have sentencing now? And that the, the agreement was time served. And the difference between us, whether I would serve an extra 2 weeks or not, that I was on my way to go to Egypt. So the judge decides at the, at the, at the, at that meeting, he said, let me think about it, we can do it next week. And then he changes his mind. And then what happened is that out of the blue, you know, the, the Attorney General of the United States comes to Tampa and stays like 3 or 4 hours, and I'm wondering if he had a meeting with the judge. You know, I keep wondering, why would he come a day before my sentencing and stay with the judge? Oh, sorry, stayed in Tampa. I don't know if he stayed with the judge, but it was very, very awkward for him to come to Tampa and stay for 2 or 3 hours. And then the next day, the whole dynamic changes, and the judge changes his tone, and then he gives me an extra 11 months, which gives them the time needed to start a new case, even though they said We're done. Now they start a new case and a new prosecution. So now I'm being asked to go to Virginia. Now they cannot try me on the same case. So they invented another case which I had nothing to do with, but I'm supposed to testify in that case. I kept telling my lawyer, this is not about this case, this is about Tampa. And they didn't believe it. And I have one of the most brilliant—

Rania Alagindi: Right.

Sami Al-Arian: Lawyers in the country, Jonathan Turley. I mean, you cannot have a better lawyer, constitutional lawyer, a university professor and all that. And he was perplexed. He said, they cannot do that. The attempt is over. This is about this case. I said, it's not. So I refused to testify. I refused to go. 3 times they impaneled a grand jury, and they're supposed to, you know, after you refuse to testify and you go through civil contempt Prison, you're supposed— the judge is supposed to release you. But there they were pushing their case, and I had to go through 2 hunger strikes, very punishing hunger strikes, one for 60 days and one for 55 days. And I would go to the grand jury basically not able even to speak or walk. And that grand jury, after a year, you know, they, they, they, they are disbanded, and then they reconvene another one trying to push me. And I knew that this was about— Right. A trap. If you testify, they're going to say you lied. And if you lie in the context of a terrorist case, terrorism case, then you go to prison for 22 to 25 years. And if you do not testify, then you have criminal contempt, in which case they can also ask, because it's in the context of a terrorism case, even though there is no terrorism really, but then you are facing the same 20 to 25 years. So either case is getting you. And this prosecutor, I had some history with him. Even before I was arrested, he was trying to get me to cooperate. And he's a Zionist, very well-known Zionist in the United States. And he has prosecuted many Muslims because of their beliefs and associations. So I knew that he had it for me. But the proof is in the pudding, as they say. When it became very clear that they couldn't get me to testify and the civil contempt charges or the civil contempt time has lapsed, and he threatened with the criminal contempt. Then I said, let me know what kind of questions you want me to ask— to answer, and then I will decide whether to come or not. And to the astonishment, but not to my surprise, the astonishment of my lawyers, all his questions were about Tampa. Then one or two questions were about the case, but everything else was about Tampa. And then I answered all the questions relevant to the case in Virginia, and he said, these are not the questions I'm asking. These are the other questions. So I knew this was a trap, and my lawyers knew that this was a trap. So then he went through criminal contempt, and he was hoping for 20 to 25 years. Now we go to the judge. Now, for the first time, I find a judge who's open-minded and ready to listen to the argument that we had. And our argument was very simple. We had a case in Tampa. They lost the case. Then they wanted me to plead. We pled under the condition that this is the end of business between me and them. By the way, the one who negotiated this deal was the 3rd highest-ranking person in the Justice Department. She was in charge of the criminal division at the time. My lawyer had a meeting with her, and they agreed. And when they wanted me actually to— as I said, we raped. You know, they wanted me to say that I knew about violence. I said that I knew about violence and nonviolence. And then we had an impasse, and then they agreed to what I wrote. At the end, they came and they said, we want you to cooperate with the United States as part of the regular plea agreement. I said, I don't cooperate. If you don't take this statement out, I'm not signing, I'm not pleading. They said, don't worry, we'll take it out. So it was taken out, this statement that exists in every plea agreement, that if you plead to something, you agree to cooperate and to talk to all the prosecutors and to answer any questions. I said, this is not going to happen. I will not do that. They took it out because they knew that, you know, they wanted to get rid of this case. It was political from the beginning. Now this guy coming and said, come and testify. So I said, no, I'm not going to testify. And we tell the judge that we had this. So, for the first time, a judge considers this argument, and she asked the prosecutor to bring the Florida prosecutors, to ask them the question, what was their understanding when we signed this agreement? The government refuses to bring these prosecutors. 3 times she asks, 3 times they refuse to bring them. Then, for the first time— this is the rocket docket. Court, meaning that they just go through, through cases, you know, very quickly. She gives me bail, so I am on house arrest, but she's afraid to rule. She said, you can ask for dismissal of the case. We filed for dismissal in April 2009, and she doesn't rule. 2010, 2011, '12, '13, '14, you know, 5 years go, and the government keeps asking her to rule, and she refuses to rule because she knew That this was a BS issue, BS case, that this was not a good case. She didn't want to be part of this case, but she wasn't— how should I put it? She didn't want to dismiss it because whatever would come out of this, until the government gave up and they asked for dismissal. And that came in 2014. And of course, after it was— you know, it's very funny because it was exactly 5 years when I was released on house arrest. It was Ramadan first. And when I— when the case was dismissed was also Ramadan 1st, but there was 5 years in between. So it was like, like a Ramadan gift for me, 5 years apart. But at any rate, and after that, you know, now they said you need to leave, you need to leave. I said, okay, but I'm a Palestinian. I am stripped of all my rights in the U.S. I no longer have a green card, you know, even though I was supposed to get citizenship, they refused to give it to me. And I don't have a country to go to. I have to start— and then, by that time, Egypt has become under a military regime again, so I cannot go there. I need to look for a country. So, it takes me months and months, you know, sending letters to different countries, until some of my friends, you know, at different academic institutions, they happened to meet with the president of Turkey at the time, who was at the United Nations, and they asked him about my— and they told him about my case and gave him the file. And the guy immediately, to his credit, accepted. He said, I will take this person. And then, you know, it's very funny, because he was meeting at the time, right after this plea with him, with Joe Biden. It was Biden who actually took the file and called him 2 weeks later and said, you can have your Palestinian scholar. And that's the type of language he used. And then after that, the whole treatment of the U.S. government changed. I didn't know about any of this, by the way. Away, until I was contacted by the American government telling me to get ready. You know, I didn't— the Turks didn't get in touch with me. It was the American government. And their treatment of me completely reversed at that time. There was more respect, and they gave me permission to start saying goodbye to my friends. They allowed me to go to Florida, to Chicago, to New York, to tell, you know, to tell people goodbye, basically. That would not be— that would not be the way that you would You would treat someone who is accused of terrorism. You wouldn't allow him to go to the communities in Florida and Michigan and Chicago and New York to say goodbye. And then, you know, and then they took me all the way. Obviously, they didn't give me any papers. But I had— you know, I didn't have any papers, so I was walked all the way to the airplane to get here. And, you know, again, I want to emphasize that this was a happy ending, so to speak.

Rania Alagindi: Yeah, yeah.

Sami Al-Arian: Even with all the suffering that I had to go through. It's something that comes with the knowledge and with the recognition that when you are tackling these kind of issues, when you are speaking truth to power, when you are challenging powerful adversaries, sometimes you have to pay a price. But the price I'm paying is nothing compared— or I had paid— is nothing compared to the price of some of the people who are in prison today, and they have no opportunity to be heard or no opportunity to, to, to, to, to get them out or to advocate for freedom. And that's, and that's the tragic point. I thank God and I thank my family. My family has suffered so much. They have, you know, my wife particularly, she had to endure all these days and nights being isolated and being bombarded with the type of pressures that come with the media, would come with the authorities, would come with the With the whole stigma of being part of this. You know, my children had to suffer. And, of course, our community had to suffer. My co-defendants had to suffer. All this suffering, we were rewarded later. You know, people recognized that this was not a good case to prosecute. But I'm also crying for the other cases, that they didn't have that kind of advocacy. Imam Jamil al-Amin, who has been sentenced to life because of his faith. Right. Because of his commitment to his community, or the Holy Land Five because they were they were helping children, you know, in their education or or in their in feeding them and the families who have been suffering under tremendous occupation, and and and the others. And Afia Subdiqi, 86 years. What what did she do? She was actually a victim of a crime, and none of these have been. Advocated by anybody, or very few. And that should not be the case. Our community should be crying about these cases. You know, no community respects itself when it sees the best amongst themselves or the vulnerable, because overwhelming majority of the people are vulnerable, and they have been taken advantage by the authorities to make example of them and to bring the American Muslim community to their knees, that if you want to be accepted— and that's what happens to some of these prominent people when they say, if you want to be like this, this is what's going to happen to you. Well, we need to say no. And we're going to suffer, and we're going to pay a price. But that's the price of freedom. You don't want to get freedom without any price. You don't want to say, I am an American Muslim and I am enjoying my freedom, and you go and teach freedom and democracy to Muslims around the world while you're not willing to pay the price of freedom and democracy in your own country. When your own people are being imprisoned, are being prosecuted because of their faith and association. And that's the lesson I hope we can get, that we cannot— With these 2 examples, very important examples, when my son was in the White House during the first months of the Bush administration, 2001, June 2001, they were sitting in the White House, and then Elliott Abram, And I was told this by a very prominent Republican guy. He asked for the manifest, who is in this room. They give him the manifest. He sees the name Al-Arian. He thinks it was me, even though it was my son, who was only 21 years of age. He said, this guy is not supposed to be in the White House. So my son goes to— the Secret Service goes to my son and says, you need to leave. So he takes his stuff. Everyone on that table, every Muslim leader on that table, immediately— didn't take them 4 seconds. To stand up and leave and have an impromptu press conference in the front of the White House and became the number one story in the country. And then Bush is forced— his spokesperson, Ari Fleischer, comes and apologizes in public about what happened. And then they send the Secret Service to apologize to my son in private and offer him a private tour in the West Wing. And then Bush writes a letter of apology to my wife. All this happened because the community was one. The community stood up for what needs to be done. Fast forward, this 2001, in 2010, and the same leaders, they supposedly go to a White House event with Obama, and one of their elders, the late Dr. Jamal Barzinji, he's asked not to come in. Everybody looks the other way and they continue going in. That's why we don't get respect. Had these people said, we're not going in, Unless Dr. Jamal goes in, who was 70, not 21 years of age, who is the builder of many organizations and institutions in the U.S., then the U.S. government would have respected the Muslim community. Not that you walk in and leave your elders behind. And that's what we're doing today. We're leaving our people in prison to rot because we are afraid to speak truth to power, because we are afraid to say that these are people, these are innocent people who have done nothing wrong, but they were railroaded because the FBI and others wanted to find victims to blame to what happened to America, because they wanted to justify the billions of dollars they are getting. And because of that, we are silent. And what we are saying today is that it's enough is enough. We should not let people speak on our behalf because somehow they have access to Biden or Clinton. We need people to speak on our behalf because they stand up for our rights, because they speak truth to power, because they are not retreating. Under pressure because they are willing to pay the price.

Hassan Chibli: It's amazing. Very, very powerful. And that's the truth of the matter. Um, you know, in this country and in life generally, you gain honor and respect by speaking truth to power, not by trying to be liked, but by standing up for those whose rights are being violated and fearing none but Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala and doing the right thing. And I think that story you mentioned, and you know, Nihad had mentioned to me the same exact story And that's— it's unfortunately a sad reflection of how our community changed in the wrong direction. But hopefully that would change back, how, you know, back in 2001, again, when one Muslim was kicked out— in that case, it was your son— we all stood united, and that resulted in an apology and a course correction, versus years later, that when one of our elders was kicked out, everybody looked the other way and was just nafsi, nafsi, worrying about themselves. And in that, we all lost. We all lost power and influence and, unfortunately, our moral ground. You know, one of the important points I want to emphasize, Musha, we have a record amount of followers. I think right now about 130 people watching live. And I want to ask you all to share this and get this word out. And then tune in every week, because every week we want to continue this conversation, to hear firsthand from victims of injustice at the hands of the U.S. government. We're going to have, as some of the people mentioned, the former prisoners of Guantanamo Bay, even. So it's very important we educate ourselves about what's happening and then take action to fix course. Dr. Sami, you know, For me, obviously, one of the biggest testaments to your innocence— a lot of this had, you know, all this had happened before I moved to Tampa, and I had the honor of meeting you, you know, both in Turkey and here when you visited in Florida. But, you know, hearing firsthand from the prosecutors who worked in that office testify that your prosecution was BS was profound. I didn't expect them to say that. They actually said it over the phone. But even more of a testament, I think, to your innocence, as you pointed out, Besides everything we know about you and your work and your history and the facts, is the fact that you did have a tour to say goodbye to everyone. I remember you visited Florida before you moved to Turkey. And again, as you mentioned, had you been the threat that they tried to misrepresent you as, that certainly never could have happened. 2 questions, though, I do want to ask you right now. And number one, could you just clarify, why did the judge withhold on the final ruling for 5 years? What, was she afraid that if she You know, dismissed the case against you, that at that point the government would appeal or would subject you to further injustice. I mean, obviously she wasn't convinced of your guilt, and she was troubled by your treatment. So why did she withhold the ruling for 5 years? That's the first question. The second question is, masha'Allah, our viewers are saying, you know, they're learning a lot. People who were involved in the case, people who were victims in this case along with you, saying they're hearing some things for the very first time. So what were you exposed to in terms of the government surveillance tactics and their strategy and things that you feel that especially the Tampa Muslim community in particular and the American public in general should know? What are some of those shocking things that you really wish people would know? So those are the 2 quick questions. Number one, why no ruling? And number two, what are some of the things that you feel people really would be troubled to hear or learn about in terms of the government surveillance and tactics and its impact on the Muslim community in Tampa and across the Well, we really do not know what is on the judge's mind.

Sami Al-Arian: What we know is what she said in public. She said in public that she was very troubled with the case, and that she gave the government 3 chances to bring the Tampa prosecutors so she can ask them directly what was their understanding of the plea deal. If their understanding is that I was supposed to leave and give no testimony, obviously she would have ruled for us, and if their understanding was otherwise, she was going to proceed with the case. The government refused. So she should have held the government in contempt, because 3 times they refused her order. But she chose to ignore the case. Now, of course, you would conclude is that either she is going to defy the government and leave this case hanging until the government gives up, and that's exactly what happened. Or she could have basically asked for some kind of a plea agreement in which you plead guilty for time served because you've been under house arrest for 5 years. I don't know what she had in mind, really, because she never told us. What we know is that after 5 years, the government gave up, and they knew that they had no case and that they're not going to convince this judge to proceed. Every year, by the way, they remind the judge with emotion, the judge, you haven't ruled. And the judge would respond by saying, I will rule soon. And that soon never came. So, obviously, the judge was not happy. Now, in terms of what we can learn, we can learn a lot. I, you know, I discovered that every single aspect of my life was being surveyed, was being investigated. Believe it or not, the government went to my accountant. When I moved to Tampa in '86, I used an accountant for about 3 years, and then he retired. And then, because I knew him personally, I was asking him if he could do my taxes every April. And, you know, I would pay him. Obviously, he was on Social Security, an old guy. And then, around mid-'90s, he started asking me, why didn't you find someone else? And I kept asking him, I like you. You know, why should I use someone else? We know each other. What I didn't know at the time is that the government secretly went to him and threatened And every time I would file my taxes, the moment he gives me, he will give them a copy. So I found all these copies in my in my in my in my evidence boxes. You know, it was it was to me it was a shock. He couldn't tell me don't you know he kept telling me don't come to me, but he couldn't tell me why. And I kept stupidly you know going to him. But they probably would have done the same with any other accountant. But that's the type, because they couldn't get it from the IRS, so they were trying to investigate. And then they had a forensic accountant. Every single bank that I had access to, they would get a statement, a monthly statement, and they would go— the guy was going through every aspect of my expense to justify it. And then when I had— I owned a property, and that property was, you know, I had a building, and that building had a fire at one point, and they had 3 different investigations, you know, one by the state, one by the fire department, one by the FBI and others. And they're trying to say that I was behind the fire. And I can see this. It's like, can't you find anything to get this guy to be charged with fire? And then I found another case that was prepared by an immigration attorney. He said, I can get him to, uh, uh, to be prosecuted on immigration fraud. They tried so many tactics before they, they went through this. When you are targeted, that's the unfortunate thing. When you are targeted, they try to justify it, but for whatever reason, none of that bore fruit. And, and not to speak, of course, about every aspect phone call that I had. They had— they knew about my, my connections, and I had hundreds of, of connections with, with congresspeople and others, and that was problematic to them. And every time I spoke or I went to Washington, or I spoke to a congressperson, or I invited somebody to my house, or whatever it is, they would write a report. And that report, one would go to Washington and one would go to Miami, because that's where the immigration was. So it was a very massive surveillance and prosecution. And I think the final tab was over $200 million that they spent on this case. It was— it's a staggering amount, but I'm not surprised, because when the judge asked him to hand over to us the CDs that had all these 21,000 calls, it cost them. They said it's going to take a while, but it's going to— because they were doing it on reel, you know, all these magnetic tapes that we can see in the films in the 1960s. That's the type of things that— that's the type of technology they were using. And for them to transfer that into CDs— Right. They had to pay, they told the judge, $550,000. They had about 12 different translators who would translate into Arabic. So in one instance, you know, my lawyer asked one of the translators out of the 12, and they worked on the case for 5 years and sometimes for more, because this was like a 12-year case, and he said that he was paid in one year $93,000. That's one out of 12. And then when they brought an expert witness, somebody who is known who's a Zionist, you know, coming from Washington Institute for Near East Policy, a well-known Zionist, you know, AIPAC-related think tank. He was paid $250,000 for a 1-hour testimony. All right, now you think of the dozens and dozens of agents, and they had 21 trips to Israel. Israel was heavily involved in this case. You know, we didn't even talk about this angle of it. We saw from the WikiLeaks documents, you know, their ambassador in Tel Aviv sending them a full report about how the Israeli authorities were helping in prosecuting this case. They dumped on us 65,000— it was just a document dump— 65,000 copies, Hebrew copies. So, when you look at all this, you know, the taxes, the fire, the bugging, you know, they had bugged my house, they had bugged my offices. Yeah. Luckily, at the time, I suspected this, so I hired the company. They were able to move the bugs from my house. And after that, they claimed during the trial that they never really operated them, they never activated them. And, of course, what they didn't tell the judge is that I removed them, because they went to the guy who removed them, the technical guy, and they asked him why he had then removed them. And he said he didn't know anything about their involvement. He found them and he removed them. And so that's the type of things, and it's scary for some, but if you want to live in the United States and if you want to, if you want to, if you want to be really a free person and you want to speak truth to power, it's— that's part of this. And we need to change laws. We need to change how the authorities treat their citizens. You know, obviously after 9/11, it has become 100 times more difficult than what we had to face with secret evidence. But that's the type of society. If you want to free the society, you need to be a part of the struggle. You cannot live and enjoy freedom without having to pay for the sacrifices needed to gain and earn that freedom. If the FBI wants to monitor the Muslim community, they have to justify this in a way that is not going to deny you your basic rights. You know, there's absolutely no justification. To not only bug you because of your beliefs and associations, but also when you look at your family, what they had to subject to. You know, I found so much evidence with, you know, that came from my garbage. They were collecting my garbage and using that garbage as somehow they thought they're gonna get some kind of— I mean, it's all these dirty tactics that you hear about, you see them firsthand. I saw their cooperation with foreign intelligence. You know, when you are, when you are in the evidence room with all these thousands and tens of thousands of documents, you have 3 types of, uh, you have 3 types of evidence. You have the what is called the A and B. B is the search, the stuff you get from your house or when they raid, uh, your, your properties. But the A type, you have discoverable and undiscoverable. The discoverable are the ones that you're supposed to show you. The Uh, discoverable part is sometimes the reports they may receive from intelligence evidence. But because of the massive amount they had, some of these undiscoverables just became mixed with the discoverable. So I'm looking at these intelligence reports, you know, writing about me from Arab intelligence agencies. They are lying so that they can get into the graces of the United States. They know what they want to hear. So they write reports so that the United States says, oh, OK, now you confirmed what we thought the case is. And not only that, not only they lie about you, but they start providing them with information that's going to put people's lives in danger. When you see why some of the leaders in the Middle East get bombed or assassinated by Israel, now you know why, because there are agents within our own people who provide full information, where they live, their addresses, what it is, so that they can get in the good graces of the U.S. and Israel. And that's very, very tragic. But I saw all this with my own eyes, you know, the type of reports get transmitted from some of these intelligence services in the Arab world into the FBI and the CIA, and also the cooperation of Zionist organizations and how these— some of these Zionist organizations are tools you know, basically of Israel and the Mossad and other intelligence agencies and how they work hand in glove with the FBI. And I saw this. I saw these reports that they were written by the Weizenthal Report and by, you know, the type of work with Israeli intelligence. Some of these, you know, so-called journalists, pseudo-journalists, Emerson and Khaled Duran and all these people who have been working and they write reports And they get these intelligence agencies actually into the habit of trying to prove a case that is very difficult to prove so that they can justify the millions and millions of dollars that they had spent. You know, I can go on and on. There's so much to talk about, but I want to end with this. I want to end that— I want to end on a good note, you know, that even though that you may be subjected to this, you need to know your constitutional rights. If you're not doing it, obviously, and most people, all people, are not thinking of harming this country because you live there, you grew up there, you're trying to better the community, you're not trying to hurt it, is that you need to know your constitutional rights. And you need to be part of an organization like CAIR Florida that can defend you and they can educate you. But you also need to get involved. And if you cannot get involved because somehow you are busy or don't have the time, you cannot volunteer, you cannot work, you can certainly contribute to those who have dedicated their lives to defend your rights. And I want to particularly, in addition to Care Florida, talk about the Coalition for Civil Freedoms. It's a coalition that has very little support but has a strong presence when it comes to these cases, that they try to defend your rights and they try to defend, to to advocate on behalf of those people who have been railroaded and they need your support. They bring them in. This is an organization I'm proud to say that I have founded, and that's why I'm trying to promote it. Back when I was under house arrest, I thought that no one— our community is so afraid to talk to these people, to the families. The families feel totally abandoned. My family was one of these families. But we also— My families and my children grew up in this country. They have all kinds of friends and And they cannot, you know, they can get by, but the other families have been totally abandoned by their communities. So, and, you know, I'm speaking to these organizations that they talk about, you know, Muslim civil rights, and they talk about all things, but they're afraid to touch these cases because they think there's a huge price to pay, to pay, and they don't want to pay it. So I said, okay, let's create another organization that is willing to pay the price. But we need to support it. We need to support them financially, and we need to support them also intellectually, and we need to support them spiritually, and we need to be strong. You want to be strong? Get involved.

Rania Alagindi: Absolutely. I could not have said it better myself. And to be honest, there's so much more that we can talk about. We could go for another few hours. But the audience probably doesn't realize that I think it's past 2:00 a.m. in Turkey. So, masha'Allah. We are really, really grateful for you to join. And Tapanala, you know, we sometimes, if we're being very honest, you know, the community will ask, you know, what is the need for organizations like CAIR Florida or the Coalition for Civil Liberties and, you know, what freedoms, civil freedoms, and what is it that you guys are doing and is it so vital? And Tapanala, you know, we're telling people don't speak to the FBI without an attorney, and you're telling us they were going through your trash. So that's— we're just covering the minimum. And obviously we learned from your amazing case that it's really incredible, and we have to take many, many lessons from it. And I just want to say on behalf of the community, truly, truly, I mean, I was getting emotional, to be honest, because, you know, I watch— and we'll speak about where to have more resources— but I watched the movie, the free movie, it's on Vimeo, USA v. Al-Arian. And, you know, I was getting very emotional Because in you, I saw that it could be my father. You know, Allah yakhamu. It could be anyone's father. It really could have been anyone because there was no crime, right? There was nothing of basis. And so these are our families that we have to protect. And so I want to just say thank you for being such a shining example of moral integrity. I mean, they came after you with a case that had no merit. Then they tried to make you testify in other cases to put other people at risk. And you just always stood your ground, and you taught us that pathway, that we can do it. You know, people say it's a means to an end. People say this is what we have to do, this is the reality that we're in. And you refused to accept that. And you said that, you know, our deen and our values and our ethics come first. And so I just want to say thank you, truly, because, you know, you are a guiding example for our community. And I want to share with people— and maybe you can chime in, as well— that other resources that they can look to. We mentioned the free movie USA v. El-Arian.

Sami Al-Arian: Yeah. Yeah.

Rania Alagindi: You mentioned to us the book American Dissonance, of which, you know, 3 activists are highlighted. I believe it was Muhammad Ali, Malcolm X, and your case, one of the only 3 Muslims that are in that book. You wrote a book of poetry while you were in prison that I actually was able to see a bit of. So, you know, again, just turning that pain into something very beautiful that I think people should follow up on. And you've never stopped your activism. You're still very vocal from Turkey. You have your organization, which, you know, you can feel free to let us know where we can get more information and more information about your case. But I truly want the audience to know to follow up, to educate yourself, to keep educating yourself. It's not one case. We have 3 more cases coming up in the following weeks. And it's related to our lives currently and the situation that we find ourselves in. But really, I just want to say, جزاك الله خيرا. And I'll turn the floor over to you and Hasan for any final remarks. Sure.

Hassan Chibli: And Dr. Sami, I do want to leave you the final remarks. So I'll just share a few words. SubhanAllah, they spent hundreds of millions of dollars trying to convict you, 21,000 hours of recording, tens of thousands of pages of documents, not one conviction. Again, it shows that this country, while we espouse justice, we haven't always lived up to these ideals. And it's critical that we continue to fight for others. And I'm very inspired by you, that while you're in house arrest, You didn't waste time. You formed another organization to protect the civil rights of other prisoners after you witnessed what they had. And that was a big part of your message today. I'm thinking now, especially for Latino Americans, Black Americans right now that are incarcerated, it is overwhelmingly the poor, those who can't afford justice, unfortunately. So thank you for that powerful message. You know, we're blessed in Tampa to have people, you know, to have had people like you, to have a brother like Hatem, Brother Hatem Fariz, who I know suffered greatly in the trial and now is We're grateful for our friends and allies who joined the conversation. I know Ione, who was the director, the head of the Democratic Party in Tampa, she was with us, and she, at her church, stood with you. Mel Underbucky, many, many others. So I want to thank all of our friends and our allies that are with us today and that fought with you and that are fighting alongside us today. I know on 10/10/2010, that's when you started your organization. And I know you mentioned it. We have the website at the bottom. So I want you to mention again. Yes. Because I think 10/10/20, which is this year, is the 10-year anniversary. And I want everybody who's watching this video to become a donor to support your organization, to support, because the work that you guys do is phenomenal. You're literally helping people who've been abandoned, who are facing injustice, who are the most vulnerable, and who could really have the greatest impact like you have had, you know, through their experience. So please mention your website again. And remember, 10/10/10 is when it was founded, 10/10/20 Yeah. Is the anniversary. And finally, for my brothers and sisters, please make sure— because I do want to give the last word to Dr. Sami, so I will just say this from my perspective at Care Florida. I hope this gives you better insight in why we say never speak to the FBI without a lawyer. I've had the sheriffs, I've had U.S. attorneys, I've had prosecutors all say the same thing: Hassan, remind your community not to speak without a lawyer. I've had those who admitted that Sami's case was unjust and who are federal prosecutors say, Hassan, We're doing—we we have to do our job in D.C. We're not brave enough to stand against it, but you and your community have to do your job in standing up and defending what's right. So we have to work harder to defend justice than they're working to sometimes undermine it. And remember, always a reminder: I always say never ever speak to the FBI without a lawyer. It's a foolish thing. Almost every day, somebody from the community calls me that the FBI is harassing them. Yes, they do go through the trash as well. Don't speak to the FBI without a lawyer if they harass you. Contact here. We're here to represent you. Alhamdulillah, I'll tell you just. A few weeks ago, wallahi, I drove in Tampa into a parking lot where there were 5 FBI agents trying to interrogate a Muslim business owner. And I took them, first of all, right in front of the camera so we can record it, and I said, listen, get the hell out of here. They said, no, we have questions. I said, you know what? Well, I learned from the president. You know, Mr. Trump, when you had questions for him, he said send them to his lawyer in writing. So I'm his lawyer. Send it to me in writing. Get out of here. And wallah, they left, and we earned their respect. Respect when we show that we are here to protect the Constitution. It's not just about protecting Islam and Muslims. It's about protecting Constitution justice for everyone. So don't speak to the FAO lawyer. Support CareFlor's work. Support Dr. Sami's work. And with that, Dr. Sami, just some final remarks. Your message to the Tampa community in particular, to the American community at large, and also how people can follow your work and support it. Thank you so much, Dr. Sami. Your final closing remarks.

Sami Al-Arian: Thank you so much, Hasana. Thank you so much, Juan. Yeah. And Hiba for this illuminating. And I got agitated and I got excited because I really care. You know, I love the Tampa community. It's the community I spend my best life there. And I'm so proud of you guys. And I can't imagine that we leave this legacy. You know, your work is amazing at Care Florida, mashallah. And our work in the mosque, Masjid al-Qassam, they were trying to change the name, change the community, frighten the community. They used to go and say this is not a patriotic community because we're telling our community to go and vote. They said you should go to the other community who say don't go and vote, vote is haram. But today our community has become really the luminary of American Muslims, you know, whether in education or in religious activism. And I had seen what they have done during the corona crisis, have they become, become a, a, a, a lighting, you know, uh, to the whole community. You know, every single channel had went there and, and, and talked about what they have been doing, amazing job. So I'm very, very happy, very proud of that, and, and, and to be part of, of at least establishing this kind of activism. But I want to also note that there's still a lot to be done, and I want our community to know about these cases, and I'm so happy that you have taken some of these cases, and I hope this kind of program continues. I know also CCF has their own webinar, weekly webinar, usually on Fridays, in which they talk about these cases. So perhaps people can tune in also and learn more. And I want people also to start learning to volunteer. I mean, you need volunteers. All organizations need to volunteer. So we need to be part of that spirit. Spirit that this is how you can cleanse whatever, you know, sins or whatever bad behavior people do. You know, you can cleanse that by activism or by donating or by any good deeds that can get you closer to your goal. But also, I want to say to our community, especially when you have great organizations like yours, That we should support you, not just because you're doing a great job, because you are the first defense. When you have these kind of organizations, believe me, the FBI will think twice before they go in. You go and tell them, they know that you know your rights. You know, they used to send me delegations. I get a left-wing, you know, trying to infiltrate, didn't work. Then they send me a Nazi who is— they think, you know, I'm somehow going to embrace him because he hates Jews. And I kick him out. Then they send me someone to infiltrate, to get so that they can— they knew all these tactics. But when they know you have somebody like Hassan Shibley or Care for Florida or other outstanding community members, they will not do that. They cannot dare to do this to the Jewish community. They cannot dare do this to the African-American community now, because they know that they will have a backlash, that they will have a pushback. But they know that they can railroad the Muslims. And that's why— that's the feeling of weakness, and we need to change that. And we change that by supporting these kind of activities. Again, thank you so much for the invitation. Thank you, Hasan. Thank you, Rania. Thank you, Hiba. Thank you, our Tampa community. Thank you for the Tampa community who are not Muslims and stood by us. You mentioned Mel Anderbaki, but there are so many of them. You know, HOPE, Hillsborough Organization for Progress and Equality, this is an organization that came And by the way, through them we were able to stop— I didn't talk about this— to stop the use of secret evidence in 1998, because they saw us at the time not just as a Muslim community. They saw 20 churches and a mosque, thousands of people. So Janet Reno, who was the Attorney General at the time, and Eric Holder, who was her deputy, they decided to stop the use of secret evidence, even though it was not outlawed. So we stopped the bleeding, and we're trying to cut the root of that evil. But what I'm trying to say here is activism is great, but you also have to do it through a wider coalition. And that's the idea of CCF, is that we're going to get a wider coalition, not just Muslim activists, but at the core of it, at the heart of it, has to be our community, because we are the victims of this overreach. Thank you again.

Hassan Chibli: Great. Thanks so much, Dr. Hussain. And please say the website again that people can follow, any website.

Sami Al-Arian: www.civilfreedoms.com.

Hassan Chibli: Wonderful.

Sami Al-Arian: civilfreedom.org.

Rania Alagindi: Thank you. Thank you, everyone. Same time next week, 5 PM on CAIR Florida's Facebook. We'll be talking about the case of Imam Al-Amin, which you do not want to miss. Again, as, as the doctor had mentioned, it's a very impactful case that is actually ongoing, and some developments, recent developments that you don't want to miss, you want to hear. So we'll see you then, inshallah. Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh.

Hassan Chibli: Be sure to share this video, everyone, and send it to all your friends. I got some prosecutors in the office that tried to prosecute him watching and, and really expressing their regrets for what happened. So we need to get the word out and expose this injustice and make sure that we prevent it from happening to the next Dr. Sami. May Allah bless you. Thank you, Dr. Sami. Please keep us in your prayers in Turkey and, uh, send us out to the family with salaam alaikum wa rahmatullah.

Sami Al-Arian: Salaam. Thank you.