Prisoners for Palestine Hunger Strike Update & Call to Action with Calla Walsh

Jared: Welcome everybody to another edition of Millennials Are Killing Capitalism Live. If you were here for this morning's It's good to see you again. And if you've missed it, make sure to go back and check out our conversation with Fadia Nadwa Fikri this morning. Really good discussion, and actually related to this discussion as well, because we talked a little bit about the prescription of Palestine action and everything else. But please take a minute and like the video, Subscribe to the channel if you have not already, and share it with folks. Also, most importantly, direct people to the show description where there are toolkits for how to support Prisoners for Palestine and the hunger strikes. And so just want to make sure we handle those kind of business items up front. And our guests, of course, Folks know Calla Walsh. We've had her on the show a couple times already, maybe three times, two times at least, and look forward to having another conversation with her. And of course, you know, always, you know, appreciate the opportunity to talk about the struggles of political prisoners, and in this case, quite urgent because of the the hunger strikes that are going on right now and have been going on for quite some time in the UK. And then our other guest. Francesca Nadine, first time talking to her, but she's somebody, I mean, as we know, Kala, in the US, Kala spent a few months in prison or in jail, I think, for her time or for her role with Palestine Action US. In the UK, Francesca also was a political prisoner in the system for a while, and I believe She can correct me on this, but I think there's still cases that may be pending. So anyway, really grateful to have both of these folks join us today for this very important conversation. And also just want to make sure that people remember that there are actions that you can take, even just wherever you are, to support these folks. And that's what we want people to do. But let me welcome our guests to the stage. Hala and Francesca, it's good to be with you both. Thank you for joining me for this discussion. Calla, why don't we just start with you? Can you give us updates on— help people understand what is going on right now and what the calls to action are right now? And then we can move in and give people some more context, and Francesca can share a little bit about her own experiences with the UK justice and prison system as well. Yeah.

Calla Walsh: Yeah, thanks so much for having us on again, Jared, to discuss this urgent hunger strike and how people can support. I really want to leave most of it to Francesca since she's very involved in the day-to-day of supporting the prisoners and definitely knows more about the latest updates than I do. But just to give a broad overview, today is, if I'm doing the math correctly, it's day 38 of a historic hunger strike in British prisons. There are, I believe, 37 political prisoners who've been held under the so-called Terrorism Act without trial, without bail, experiencing horrific abuses, religious discrimination, political targeting, because they're locked up for the supposed crime of intervening in the British role facilitating and arming the Zionist genocide in Palestine. And this strike, you know, started on the anniversary of the Balfour Declaration, and it has been going on in a staggered manner. So Amu and Kesser, the first 2 strikers, started that day, and more have joined, most recently Umar Khalid. All the strikers are either part of the Filton 24 or the Ralph Bryson Organ 5, I believe.

Francesca Nadine: Right.

Calla Walsh: And their demands are not limited to improving their own prison conditions. They're also aimed at deprescribing Palestine Action from its illegitimate terrorist prescription and shutting every Elbit facility in the UK down. And the situation's really serious. As people listening probably know, there was another hunger strike, which we were on the show talking about, which was joined by U.S. political prisoners back in August and September, launched by T. Hoxha, who's again on hunger strike this time around. That lasted 28 days. We're really nearing like the extreme danger zone for these prisoners' health. And the British government has yet to make any acknowledgement of their demands. And so people can support from anywhere in the world. It's not limited to being in the so-called United Kingdom. There are links in the chat description. There are links all over social media on Prisoners for Palestine's pages. There's a toolkit for people in the UK. There's a toolkit put together by Workshops for Gaza for people in the US to call MPs, to call the prisons, to pressure the Ministry of Justice, and also all the news media that has been completely silent on this historic strike. And, you know, in the U.S., for example, there's British consulates in almost every major city. So those are places to take direct action, to do protests, to build the pressure. And yeah, over 5, I think, of the prisoners have been hospitalized so far and are experiencing really, really extreme health consequences, some to the point where they're too weak to even make public statements anymore. But all of them have emphasized Still, despite them literally being in starvation, that they're so lucky. They feel so lucky compared to people in Palestine who are starving and freezing and under continued bombardment and genocide, that they are still, you know, inside, indoors, in cells, despite being in conditions of imprisonment. And so that kind of steadfastness is really inspiring and should inspire us all who—

Jared: Thank you.

Calla Walsh: are lucky enough to not be in such conditions of incarceration right now. And yeah, I'll pass it over to Francesca or to you for the next question.

Jared: Yeah, well, I mean, I think I want to— I definitely want to hear more of your story, Francesca, partly because we've had the benefit and pleasure of talking to Kala about hers a couple of times. But I just want to start by Because we're talking about what's going on right now and the hunger strike and all of that, and because you are connected and doing the work you're doing for Prisoners for Palestine, is there anything you would want to add to what Kala has said there? And talking about what's going on currently on these hunger strikes, anything about the people involved or why they've undertaken this? and, you know, the demands or any of that that you want to also highlight?

Francesca Nadine: Absolutely. So, first of all, thanks for having me. Thank you to Kellner for that fantastic summary update. It means I don't have to remember anything because I have no space in my brain for information right now, as you can imagine. So, just to give a little bit of context, this all came out of the fact that I was in prison myself For 9 months until March this year. At the time of me going to prison, which was July last year, there was no other Palestine Action people actually in prison. So, that was quite unusual. There was quite a long period of time, around 5 years, since Palestine Action was founded, that the usual thing would be that people would get bail even after various different actions and sometimes be acquitted because there are legal defenses that are successful on this in many cases. And even if they got convicted, they would get, you know, quite a light punishment of community service or a fine or something like that. And so obviously, because Elbit Systems has the favor of the government and they share their profits through, you know, backhanders and things like that, they started to have these secret meetings and stress the fact that this is unacceptable to them because it makes them lose money. So, this is where, you know, the crackdown started. And I remember it really well, when I was in prison, hearing about the first wave of arrests, then the second wave, and, you know, on and on it went. But the difference was that this time the word terrorism was starting to be thrown around. So, I think I can reflect on that and say I was very lucky, actually, to avoid that. Just in the space of a few months, everything changed. You know, what the people are accused of right now, the people on hunger strike and in prison, is exactly the same that Because what I did, it's just property damage, right? And as you said, we know what we're getting into. We know we're breaking the laws of these people, and we know we're going to get punished, and we're prepared for that. But this is a completely different story. So, I started writing letters to our comrades in prison, and I got to know them through that, through that shared experience of being in prison together. And so, when I got out, I knew I had to continue to support them in any way possible. So when they told us that they wanted to do a hunger strike, obviously, you know, we were there and ready to support that. And that's, you know, the point we're at now. I think it's important to emphasize the fact that, you know, this is not really an exceptional thing, although some people might say that. The fact is that these terror laws were brought in, you know, in the invasion of Iraq over 20 years ago now, with Tony Blair, you know, leading that charge. This was the perfect excuse for them to make these new laws that are racist, they're Islamophobic. But even previous to that, these kind of terrorism laws were used against Irish people who've been colonized as well by the British. So, you know, it's an ongoing story. This is just the new evolution of this. So it's really important to bear in mind that historical context. To understand that this is just the latest in a, you know, a long line of British colonial repression. And we were talking about it just the other day, the boomerang effect. So obviously this has been happening around the world with British colonialism for a very long time now. And, you know, the boomerang is coming back now to hit us in the face, and that's what we're dealing with. But the prisoners, all of them, whether they be on hunger strike or not, understand that there is their responsibility as the unwilling benefactors of colonialism to take a stand, to say that they will not accept this genocide, this violence in their name. And if that means going to prison as a result of that, then so be it.

Jared: Thank you. Thank you both for those introductory remarks. I guess one of the questions— well, Francesca, one question I would ask you is maybe you could say a little bit more about just the— you were one, as you said, you were one of the first folks to be imprisoned for taking direct action against the genocide in the UK. I guess to say what was that related to and to also talk a little bit about the shifts that we've seen. I mean, you talk about the word terrorism beginning to be thrown out, but when did this start to change and how has that evolved over the last couple of years?

Francesca Nadine: So I did a couple of actions. One was a company called Teledyne. It's actually over from the USA, but they have factories in lots of different places. They make components for F-35 fighter jets that are used in Israel— in Palestine, sorry. And they have a special exception created by the British government. They are excluded from all arms embargoes for completely spurious reasons, obviously. And then there was another one that was Barclays Bank. I don't know if you guys have Barclays over there, one of the biggest high street banks here. And that was a huge campaign by Palestine Action last year that was actually successful because Barclays Bank had hundreds of millions of pounds worth of investments in this company Elbit Systems that, you know, they were— people were always talking about and we're still talking about today. They actually sold all those shares after there were actions at dozens of Barclays banks through the period of the last year. So at that point, I got sent to prison. And I think it's been an evolution over a period of a few years. It started with climate activists getting sent to prison with disproportionate sentences. And these absolutely crazy license conditions. So the license conditions, when you get out of prison, you have like a period of time where if you don't fulfill these conditions, they send you straight back to prison. So conditions like that are against everybody's human rights. Like you're not allowed to post on social media or go to a protest or even speak to anybody that's part of any organization. It's absolutely insane. And and it's extremely difficult to challenge these things. So it started, I think, with the climate activists. But the difference here is with the, with the pro-Palestine movement is they can use this Islamophobia, this colonialism, to use this word terrorism. And, you know, we can link that back to the fact that any kind of resistance against colonialism, and that includes the Palestinian resistance, is labeled as terrorism. So I think we can really look to the, the, you know, the the whole context here to understand what's going on. So it's really just been in the last year that things have intensified so much, with first with the, you know, the arrests, the terrorism label being put on them, Fulton prisoners, more and more people being sent to prison without trial, without a conviction. And then finally, after this kind of coordinated plan, that, you know, we can all agree it's just a political witch hunt, the government was finally at the point where they could say that the whole organization was a terrorist organization. So now we can see thousands of people getting arrested on the streets over here just for holding up a sign that says, I support this organization. And I can't even say that now for fear of getting the police coming into my house and arresting me. That's, you know, unfortunately For better or worse, we don't have a constitution over here, unlike in the USA. Our right to free speech isn't protected, and it's being hacked away at, you know, an incredible rate right now. And yet the British state, the elite of this country, it loves to harp on about this idea that, you know, we're a bastion of democracy, which is just absolutely ridiculous. And I think the point we're at now the campaign has reached a point where the scales are really falling from people's eyes. And I'm talking about just members of the general public even now are criticizing the government over this. Even right-wing politicians are criticizing the government. So it's quite a unique moment in our campaign. We are really amazed and, and so happy to see that, that people are taking it on in such a way, because there's no way of denying it now how how far it's gone. The government isn't even trying to cover this up anymore. It's just they've become an embarrassment to themselves around the world.

Jared: Really appreciate that. And I think it takes us to a question that I think both of you can respond to. And Calla, why don't we start with you, and then Francesca can follow up, which is like, I'm sure that that's the case. I see that a lot of people reject the— people don't like to be told that they can't even say something, or that they can't— these limits on speech and things that seem like basic fundamentals, they do have this repressive oppressive character, and they definitely can cause a lot of people to be frustrated around that. But I do think that one of the disconnects we have is around support for the political prisoners directly. So it's kind of this strange world where we can recognize that the law is stepping into this fascistic or authoritarian space and be offended by that. And then at the same time, the people who have had everything really stripped away from them because of this terror designation, that they're not talked about very much and there's not a lot of attention. And here they are on a hunger strike that's been going on for You know, dozens of days now for 3, you know, 38 days or so, over a month, right? And, you know, there's not much attention paid to that. And they are also ones who are, you know, kind of leading the charge around this actual terror designation and what its consequences are, as well as, you know, these other political demands that they have, right, associated with their strike. And so, Kala, I don't know if you have some thoughts on that kind of dynamic and what needs to shift, or just your own analysis of what's going on there.

Calla Walsh: Yeah, I definitely have a lot of opinions on this and the abandonment of our political prisoners more broadly in the movement in the West, not just only speaking to this new wave of political prisoners from the Palestine solidarity movement, but also our long-term prisoners in the US, mostly from like the Black liberation movement and Indigenous liberation movements. Coming from the US, I think the Prisoners for Palestine example is a really inspiring model because of how unified and coordinated it is. You know, we say the phrase like prisoners are a compass a A lot, and that comes from the Palestinian struggle. But it's important to acknowledge that in Palestine, the prisoners are the organized, elected leadership of the resistance organizations for the most part. Whereas, you know, in the U.S., a lot of the prisoners are individuals, and organized resistance doesn't really exist. And so as a result, there's a lot of fragmentation. A lot of prisoner support committees are just made up of their close families.

Jared: Yeah.

Calla Walsh: friends, and we don't see as much broad unity or action as a result of that. But Prisoners for Palestine, and obviously Francesca can speak to this, but I think because these prisoners allegedly took action, you know, as part of the same formations for the same goals, that a greater unity has developed as a result of that, possibly. And You know, the silence is deafening, especially at this point into the strike. And like, I'm not surprised that the BBC and the mainstream media are silent. But what is a little more surprising to me is how many, unfortunately, Palestine solidarity organizations in the West are silent. And I don't really know how to reconcile that. I think part of it could have to do with— Fear. This kind of divide that exists in the movement over tactics, people who want to only lobby politicians or march in the streets, not that those can't be important and effective things to take up, but in my opinion, they can't be the only things we take up. And so some of those people who only want to platform such tactics and very legal, safe, above-ground tactics are oppositional to direct action or don't want to even acknowledge that it exists. Because perhaps that is a self-indictment of some of the inefficacy of their own strategies. I also think these terrorist prescriptions and designations and charges, a lot of them may not even be meant to stick in the end, but their effect is really to create a chilling effect in the movement and to instill self-censorship and abandonment of people people who are targeted with such designations. And we've seen that with different cases in the U.S., for example, the sanctioning of Samidoun in the U.S. and Canada, where everyone kind of just, you know, completely distances themselves from such organizations when the designation hits. Also, to just give a more bird's-eye view of like what is happening right now in the U.K. with the proscription, there's been a judicial review in the high courts in the UK. There's also a challenge in Scottish courts. And that took place over 3 days at the end of November. And the judge that was set to oversee it, he was randomly, suddenly— well, not randomly. He was suddenly removed the night before the judicial review was set to take part. And he was replaced with a board of 3 very pro-Israel judges with very close ties to the pro-Israel lobby, one of whom was besties with Robert Maxwell, who's a known Mossad asset, the father of Ghislaine Maxwell, the child sex trafficker. So it's very obviously a stitch-up in, like, kangaroo courts where this judicial review is taking place. And the first 6 of the Fulton 24 are also on trial right now. But the rest aren't facing trial for many till like next spring. So that's a long, long time. But yeah, I think regardless of this, like such moments when people's lives are literally on the line are very illuminating. And we still need to fight for all possible support and acknowledgement of the strike. And above all, to look at the example of Palestine as the compass for liberation. And I guess that's all I have to say for now. But I did just want to read a quote from one of the hunger strikers whose story has really resonated with me, because she was 19 when she was arrested, just like me. But unlike me, she was not given bail, and she turned 20 years old in prison, Kesar. And she's now on day 38 of her strike. She's been hospitalized multiple times, and she's released so many incredibly powerful messages from prison. But I'll just read a very brief clip of one. She said, as we take on this struggle, we follow in the honored legacy of prisoners throughout time, from Ireland to Guantanamo to Palestine. As a nation, we have made a shameful mockery of resistance. It is from our It is from our Palestinian prisoners, whose captivity and unspeakable torture could not extinguish their desire for the liberation of their homeland, that we learn. It is from our resistance, whom we have cowardly forsaken, that we learn. It is from them that we learn, O Palestine, that we can do more for you than bang our pots and pans. And I think about that quote every day. And it's That's really powerful. And I think ultimately, you know, like, there's this idea that maybe distancing ourselves from the prisoners or from Palestine action or these defendants, like, is gonna protect us all in the end, or like, if we distance ourselves, we'll be saved. But such a strategy is suicidal. Like, the fascist repression will come for anyone who is, you know, remotely pro-Palestine, remotely critical of Israel ultimately one day. And so to fight for our prisoners today is to fight against a fascist repressive tomorrow and the next day and the next day.

Jared: Yeah. Thank you, Hala. Yeah, Francesca, I guess my version of this question for you would be, you are in the UK, you are working on this campaign, you're having conversations with people. So, you know, what's your perspective on, you know, how organizing, you know, in solidarity with these prisoners, you know, is going and the kinds of, you know, conversations that you're having with everyday folks and within the movement? And, you know, how is this issue resonating alongside this kind of repression of speech and all of this other stuff?

Francesca Nadine: So this is indicative. So I think actually T. T. Hawks put it really well, so eloquently, that the prisoners are the punching bag of the prescription. So they're at the really sharp end of the repression, and as a result of that, they're they're leading the way on on the resistance in that sense. But there's so much more going on around them that this you know this widespread repression of the pro-Palestine movement, of people expressing political opinions. You know, we're just being gagged in any way possible. There are doctors, nurses, teachers that have been harassed by the Israel lobby. They make complaints to their professional bodies and in many cases get them sacked or suspended. There's so many cases of this happening just from speeches, just from public statements. We have some comrades from a university in London who are being accused of supporting a terrorist organization because they said in a speech at a protest they used the word resistance. That was it. So you can see the kind of level that we're at right now. Nurses getting sacked Yeah. From hospitals because they wore a watermelon pin. This is the kind— yeah, it's just to kind of explain that it's not just, you know, a bunch of prisoners. This is just indicative of, you know, a much more severe situation. So, with that understanding, the prisoners are leading the way, and we've had an incredible reaction. In fact, we weren't sure what kind of a reaction we were going to get when we announced this. We thought there might be some kind of backlash. You know, these kind of questions like, why are they doing this to themselves? In fact, it's been completely the opposite. Even the mainstream groups that usually would be, you know, anti-direct action or anything like that have come out in support of the hunger strike because there's been a long-standing campaign for the Filton 24, which I think has done some amazing groundwork. And it's just clear to see for anybody how unjust and how extreme this situation is. So how could you not support them? The demands are so So little to ask, really, if you actually look at them. You know, to to have a fair trial—isn't that what democracy is supposed to do? I think we all know better than that. But you know, when you put it to the general public, who have some kind of illusions of that, when you explain it to them, they really do understand that it's just not acceptable. So the fact is that the government is doing this to them—the British state—they could end it right now if they wanted to. They're choosing not to, and pretty much everybody we speak to agrees with.

Jared: Yeah, no, thank you. It's great to hear, by the way, too, that it is resonating that way in your context. Are there other things? Yeah, go ahead, Hala. Yeah.

Calla Walsh: Yeah, I just wanted to add one more thing or a couple more things. Yeah, when I talk about the silence from some parts of the movement, it's absolutely not meant to be defeatist because I think this hunger strike and the last hunger strike have really reinvigorated the political prisoners movement in a lot of ways. And especially since the one in August and September, like we've seen a growth of new support committees and calls to action and organizing around political prisoners in the US. Like what people are doing in the UK has really had these huge wide-reaching reaching international ripples, and that can't be discounted at all. And it's even reached, you know, prisoners of the Palestinian and Lebanese resistance, which I think has been some of the most inspiring messages of solidarity to see. Like George Abdallah, who was just released after 41 years in prison, sent a message of solidarity the day before the strike began. And recently there were messages released from Palestinian prisoners some of whom were locked up for over 30 years, tortured in Zionist dungeons, who were released in the Tufan Al-Arar exchange. And of course, hunger strikes are a tactic long used by Palestinian prisoners. As Francesca said, like, this isn't new. This is a long-used tactic by liberation movements. I think what's new is that it's like happening so prominently in the imperial core. By people who come from backgrounds who aren't the people usually in prison. But in their messages, these freed Palestinian prisoners, you know, refer to it as the battle of empty stomachs, and they salute the actions and the sacrifices made by people in the UK. And yeah, I think the prescription is really like, it's been a turning point. I remember, Jared, when we were on like Yeah. Before I went to jail, which actually I should mention something, which is that Francesca and I were briefly in jail at the same time. I was in jail for a lot shorter than her, but when we overlapped, it was Francesca's birthday, and we got to send her messages of solidarity from inside, which was really special. But yeah, I remember this was before the prescription. And so we were kind of contrasting how, like, the legal systems in the U.S. and the U.K. are different. And that meant that in the UK they could kind of like get away with some of these actions for longer. But clearly it reached a point where it posed such a threat to the British ruling class, the Zionist ruling class, that it could not go on any longer. And the result of this judicial review and whether the prescription stays, it's going to impact these thousands of people who have been arrested simply for holding placards. It's going to impact whether whether they have terrorism convictions or support for terrorism convictions for the rest of their lives. And maybe some of us sometimes who are like more militant or pro-direct action, some people might say, well, oh, that's just people sitting there waiting to be arrested. But like, it's actually a really effective mass protest tactic. And that's why elderly people and people in wheelchairs and young people are participating in this. It reminds me of how like in the '60s and In the '70s in the US, the tactic would be to, like, fill the jails and do mass direct action and literally make the enforcement of this law untenable for the state and for its police apparatus. And yeah, like, using all possible tactics, I think there's a lot of inspiration people, like, in the US and other places can look to from the UK. Also how they've surrounded the prisons and rallied outside of the prisons.

Jared: Yeah.

Calla Walsh: prisons, and that's lifted the spirit, the spirits of the hunger strikers so, so much and really brought joy to them despite being in such horrific health states. There's a lot of different ways we can resist and put pressure on the system.

Jared: Yeah. I mean, I do want to talk about, because I think there's a way when we talk about a hunger strike that I don't think it's possible for a lot of us to really conceptualize what that means and what kind of sacrifice that is and what it starts to do to your health and to the body. And so, Francesca, could you just give us some updates in terms of the health of these folks and, you know, that kind of— that end of things. And yeah, how that, you know— yeah.

Francesca Nadine: Yeah, absolutely. So I think I'll just give quite a general overview and not go into too many specifics. So I think, you know, obviously, after not eating for such a long time, People are very weak, exhausted. They can't stand up for, uh, for too much time. They get dizzy. I think Cameron at one point actually collapsed and hit his head as a result of that. And it impairs your brain functioning as well, so concentration, um, memory, decision-making. You know, it's very difficult to even hold a conversation at this point in time. That's why, for example, Kessa, who is constantly putting out statements, an excellent writer, is at the point now where she can't actually do that. So really like freezing cold all the time because obviously all the body fat's being consumed. So they're constantly shivering as well. And some of the prisons unfortunately have refused to give them warm winter clothing just to be cruel, obviously. And now we're getting to the danger stage, as you're saying, just within the next few days there is a the possibility of permanent organ damage and things like that. 5 of them up until now have been sent to hospital. They're not obviously getting any kind of adequate medical care from the hospital. There's a— that's, you know, prisons always have severe medical neglect, and this is just another indication of that. And we're just, you know, we're doing everything we can to get the government to talk to us and to end this strike safely before anyone comes to any further harm.

Jared: Yeah. So let's remind folks in those toolkits, what are some of the actions? I mean, please, folks, go into the show description, just pull it up. But maybe Francesca and then Khaled, you can fill in. What are some of the things that people can do or that you're trying to get you know, ask people to do to support these folks right now?

Francesca Nadine: So yeah, that toolkit's fantastic, by the way. So thanks for the hard work on that. There's lots of different things depending on the kind of availability of people and where they are as well, obviously. So for example, a big thing that people can do internationally is pressure their local British embassy or consulate. That could either be in person or Or on the phone or by email. I think, you know, that's been happening quite a lot in different places. I think the big thing is visibility, really, talking to people about what's going on. You know, there's been lots of people flyering, postering, doing banner drops, and this is the kind of thing that the prisoners find out about. We make sure they know about these things because it really does give them a, you know, Yeah. An emotional boost, which actually reflects on their health. I remember, for example, Hiba, we went to do a protest outside her prison not too long ago, and she told me afterwards that she actually felt physically better, like the kind of adrenaline that she got from that protest meant that she was able to stand up for longer than usual. And anytime they hear something like this, if we, you know, if we tell them on the phone, like, hey, there's something going on over here in the USA, or wherever it may be, That helps them to keep going. So I think that's just really, really important. And so that's 2 different things, right? That visibility which comes from the grassroots campaign and the kind of institutional pressure which is really building right now. We can see it's getting to a critical point. And then they would say, actually, I should have said this first because it's the most important thing for the prisoners, to continue shutting down these arms factories wherever they may be that continue to make arms to export So that for them is the most important thing, and I'll leave it on that.

Jared: Yeah, Khaled, did you want to add anything onto that?

Calla Walsh: Yeah, I think that says almost everything. Like, really, the visibility, not just from media and journalists, but also like organizations who have big email lists and can mobilize their supporters to take action.

Jared: Yeah.

Calla Walsh: Like, if you know one of those organizations, reach out to them. Ask them if they can send out an alert. I was also going to emphasize continued direct action. The fact that people inside prison being abused, being targeted, facing medical neglect, being labeled as terrorists, that they are still calling for continued direct action should inspire us all to be that brave as well. And yeah, just to add on a little about like what I've read from the health updates too, to build on Francesca. This I just know from, you know, following Prisoners for Palestine on Instagram. They post daily updates on all the prisoners. It's really horrific how they've been treated by the prison administrations. Some of them have even been hospitalized and said that their treatment inside the hospitals and the prison hospitals is worse than in prison. And then they've asked to be returned to their cells because they're literally being treated worse, which is horrific. I read something recently— or no, there's a video of Kamran's sister confronting David Lammy, one of the ministers. I forget which minister he is, asking about the hunger strike, and he pretends as if he's never heard of it.

Francesca Nadine: Yeah.

Calla Walsh: So, like, these people in power should get no peace as long as people are starving to death. They should get no peace. And we have to— we have to do everything we can to uplift their demands everywhere. And the prison authorities have also— like, I've seen that they have, you know, mocked the hunger strikers, telling them they're all going to die, threatening other prisoners, quote unquote, like regular prisoners, that if they associate with the hunger strikers or give any support to them, that they will be punished or isolated. So there's also this fear of their politicization spreading to the general prison population and leading to more organization or resistance. And clearly, the state wants to crush that.

Jared: Yeah, thank you. And somebody mentioned in the chat, David Lammy is the Secretary of Justice, so it is literally his job to know. A couple things in the chat that came up that made me think also of another question, or a couple more questions as we wind down. I mean, one, somebody asked, how can it be legal to deny proper treatment like warmth and medical care? I mean, one of the things within prison in general is like whether it's legal or not is really not even the question. It's like, you know, who has the power to enforce the law or to even make something happen. And I think, but it makes me think of something else, which is the— I remember even when we were talking, I think about the Tihocia strike, the first one. I know she's on strike again, but in thinking about these, the shift that happened Once these folks got labeled as terrorists, it's never to say that— I don't want people to think that ever being in prison, and both of you have your experiences with incarceration, that it's ever all hunky-dory and fine, but that then when the state says, oh, these people are terrorists, that this also is something that's taken as license by prison authorities and prison guards to single people out for more intense repression. And this is something that, as I understand it, these folks who are on these strikes and other people who have been a part of direct action for Palestine have experienced, is the shift that happened once that label started to come around, which became also part of the reason why these hunger strikes also started was because the treatment just became really, really bad at that point. And so, Francesca, I don't know if you want to start and say a little bit about that from your understanding of it.

Francesca Nadine: Yeah, you're absolutely right. I don't think there's any exception here in the sense that anyone who goes to prison gets treated in the worst possible way. You know, these, these are the people that work in the prison have this little bit of power and they really go crazy with it. A lot of them are very sadistic, um, people. And, you know, you go there and you, you lose a little, a lot of your faith in humanity, actually. Um, like a lot of people that, you know, have written, um, have become authors like in prison That you see the darkest side of humanity. How can people be so cruel, so unnecessarily? But yeah, there is absolutely an aspect here of political repression, and not just because of the reason that they're in there, but also because they have their political opinions. They will often speak out about these unjust things that are happening to everybody inside the prison. Anyone who speaks out In prison is not complying, as they put it, and they'll come down on them as hard as possible. So, I experienced that myself as well, and I can see that there are people right now in prison on hunger strike. The ones that are the most outspoken are the ones that get the worst treatment. Those are the ones that have been physically attacked, in fact. So, you know, it's all different aspects of the same kind of political repression from the very top. Right. Which is, you know, the government ministers, right down to the lowliest guard. And obviously they don't want to accept that they're part of that system. In fact, we've had a couple of Irish guards that have been in different prisons that have been to see the hunger strikers and to tell them that they understand the situation because their family were Irish Republicans and they remember their history of hunger striking, etc., etc. And they look ashamed because they know that they are class traitors, basically. So, I don't remember what your question was, but I just went on a complete tangent there.

Jared: No, that's a good, good response. I think you, you handled the question. Kyla, I don't know if you have anything to add on that.

Calla Walsh: Yeah. Also, I might go off camera for a second to plug back in my computer. I would be remiss not to acknowledge one of our elders in prison in the U.S. who just died from medical neglect, Imam Jamil Al-Amin, who was suffering from cancer for a long time, who was framed in a ridiculous case where— I mean, someone else literally confessed to the crime, the murder that he was accused of. And he was in state prison. He was moved to federal prison because he was spreading revolutionary politics and Islam to so many other prisoners. And despite a lot of pressure From the outside to free him and to get him adequate medical treatment, he died incarcerated. He passed away a couple weeks ago, and there's also another elder—the longest term now since Leonard Paltier—is semi-freed, although he's still on house arrest. He's not really free. Zinat Shali in Texas, who is experiencing huge medical neglect and. There's a lot of calls from his support committee at Freeze Zinaj Talib Now on Instagram and Twitter to also take action, to call the prison authorities and demand he gets good treatment. Because, you know, like the liberation for the long-term elder political prisoners is very linked, like to rebuild a revolutionary political prisoners movement, we need to link it to the struggle of the current newer political prisoners. And just to build on what Francesca was saying, this is why having eyes on this hunger strike is so, so important and spreading the visibility as wide and far as possible, because the more eyes that they feel are on them, the less impunity the guards have and the prison authorities have to mess with our comrades' lives, frankly. So that's why we need to put on all maximum pressure and keep calling and emailing every single day to, you know, the high levels of government to put pressure there, but also like to the prison authorities, because those kind of calls can be really decisive in the day-to-day treatment that the prisoners receive. And I thought of another thing I was going to say before. There's also a lot of internal counterinsurgency going on in the prisons to try to convince the prisoners to go off strike. And there was a post out today from Comrade's supporters about how they're sending prison imams to pressure him using religious justifications to end the strike. And he's really pushing back on this because, of course, like, there's a long history of Muslim political prisoners hunger striking. And this strike is supported by CAGE International and Mansour Adhaifi, who was on hunger strike for years and years and force-fed violently in Guantanamo Bay, where hundreds of prisoners were on hunger strike. And there was a total media blackout and like blackout of any information getting out of Guantanamo for years. And so a lot of their strike was not brought to light until years after the fact. But yeah, all that goes to say is that everyone should take action with the toolkits because the level of calls and the level of pressure coming in can be Appreciate it.

Jared: Somebody asked me to post the link. So this is Free Xinachi Now's Instagram for folks that want to check that out, and encourage people to do that. Definitely encourage people to use those toolkits and support these folks. Their situation definitely needs your support, and they are demonstrating through their own sacrifice. Yeah, absolutely. So somebody else asked this, and I know there are some examples of this, but you might be able to say a little bit more about it, Francesca, about since the proscription of Palestine Action, other groups that are not related, et cetera, right? How have people been attempting direct action in solidarity with the Palestinian struggle in the UK context?

Francesca Nadine: Oh, absolutely. The direct action never stopped. Obviously, Palestine Action was a huge platform that got stopped in its tracks. But that doesn't mean that people were going to just stay at home and feel sad about it. People feel compelled to take action, and they're continuing to do so despite the huge risks that they're taking right now. Because whenever there is a repression, there's always resistance, as we know. I think I don't remember the name of the company, but just recently there was a company that was they were the accountants for Elbit Systems, and after some actions there, they decided to stop working with Elbit Systems. Just in the last few days, there's been graffiti appearing on various government buildings around the country to support the hunger strikers. There's been just in the last few weeks people getting up on roofs of arms factories once again. So yeah, this is this is continuing to to happen. Obviously. You know, these things take different forms in— at different points in time, to be able to keep people as safe as possible. But it doesn't matter what happens in the court. We always knew, we know that we make our own justice. That's why we believe in direct action, and people will continue to do that in whatever form it may be.

Jared: Awesome. I think we can kind of wind it down. Unless there's any closing comments that either of you want to make, which you certainly can, but I'll just say to the chat and people watching this, yeah, make sure to go to the show description, use those toolkits, support these folks in whatever ways that you feel comfortable and like you can, and then— or maybe even push your comfort level a little bit. And then beyond that, there's a bunch of links also to accounts to follow, including Prisoners for Palestine and some other groups that have been giving updates and sharing information. And so I definitely want to make sure that people do follow those as well. And that way, they can stay up to date and see when there's new calls, new things to do, as well as get information about all of these folks on an ongoing basis. So anyway, I just thank you both for taking the time. today to talk about this and for the work that you both do. Is there anything that either of you want to say as we wind down?

Calla Walsh: Thank you for making the time to have us on. Thank you, Francesca, for taking time out of your busy schedule and all the support work that you're doing. Just to add on a tiny bit to the answer to the last question, one of the slogans, right, I think the last statement PAL Action put out before they were banned was that you can prescribe a group, but you can't prescribe a tactic. You can't prescribe direct action. And we've seen it continue to proliferate. And there are LBITS across the world, across Western Europe, across the United States, across the Eastern Seaboard, the middle of the country, the South. There's military contractors everywhere. There's British consulates everywhere. There's places to resist everywhere. And people can easily find that information online and do with it what they will. And whatever your role is, whatever your comfort or risk level is, there's lots of different ways to support the hunger strikers. And I hope people listening to this will decide to take some action. So thanks again. Absolutely.

Francesca Nadine: I just want to thank you for the invitation. I don't have anything to add. I think Hala did a fantastic final comment.

Jared: Awesome. Well, thank you. I will say folks should check out the interview that you did, Francesca, with Asa Winstanley from Electronic Intifada last week as well, if they missed it. It gets into a little bit more of your story, as well as there's another— who's the person who joined you?

Francesca Nadine: That was Shamina, who's actually Cameron's sister that's on hunger strike at the moment. She's also a fantastic speaker. So I'd highly recommend checking out some of her recent interviews.

Jared: Yeah, absolutely. So folks, check that out as well if you missed it and you want to get more information. It was a really good interview. And shout out, of course, to Asa and to Electronic Intifada for all of the work that they continue to do. All right, everybody, thank you so much. Thank you to our guests, to the chat, and to folks watching. Make sure To like, share, and subscribe if you have not. Um, have a good one, everybody.

Calla Walsh: Thank you.