Political Persecution in Kenya w/Booker Omole-Guerrilla History and Adnan Husain Show Collaboration

Adnan Hussain: Bismillah ar-Rahman ar-Rahim.

Henry Huckamacki: Hello and welcome to Guerrilla History, the podcast that acts as a reconnaissance report of global proletarian history and aims to use the lessons of history to analyze the present. I'm one of your co-hosts, Henry Huckamacki, and today we have a jointly released episode along with the Adnan Hussain show. So on that front, I'm going to turn it over to my Guerrilla History co-host, Professor Adnan Hussain, who of course is also... host of the Adnan Hussain Show. Adnan, nice to see you. Feel free to introduce yourself and your show.

Adnan Hussain: It's great to see you, Henry. It's wonderful to be with you. And we have a very important episode and conversation ahead. So salam, hello, welcome to you all. And I'm very much looking forward to this collaborative conversation.

Henry Huckamacki: As am I. I'll save all of the Patreon information and things like that till the end. That way we can get into the conversation. We are joined by a frequent guest of Guerrilla History. We have our friend and comrade Booker Amole joining us today. Booker is the chairman of the CPMK. That's Communist Party of Kenya. Booker, it's nice to see you again. How are you doing?

Booker Amole: Thank you very much, Henry and Adnan. It's my pleasure to come back to the show. And yes, I'm the General Secretary of the Communist Party Marxist.

Henry Huckamacki: Yes, General Secretary.

Booker Amole: And I look forward to a good conversation today.

Henry Huckamacki: Absolutely. So Booker has been a friend of mine for many years. I think we've gone back and forth for about five years at this point, Booker, four or five years in any case. And we have a very distressing topic to talk about today. And it came up very suddenly for us. So recently I had been in contact with you and we were planning on discussing a book that you have recently written on the show. But just after getting in touch with you and getting a draft copy of that book and starting preparation to talk about it, I received another message from other comrades at the CPMK saying that you had been abducted. And that is going to be the topic of today's conversation, is your abduction by the Kenyan state. So within the statement that the CPMK had put out, they called your abduction not an arrest and not lawful detention, but a kidnapping. And then through various articles that we've been reading since then, through the period of time in which you were detained and going through court proceedings, we have learned more about this case. So can you tell us about what happened? to you on February 24th, when you were surrounded by 20 men in plain clothes. They surrounded your car. What was going through your mind at that moment? And how did you know, even before they identified themselves, that this was the state coming for you?

Booker Amole: First of all, it is important to understand that this political persecution has been orchestrated by the Kenyan state and that the Kenyan Communist Party has been in discussions on what we call both legal and illegal arrests. So we have been preparing our members because we knew that we were dealing with a new colonial state. And that when they run out of legal options, then they will opt for abductions and kidnapping of our members. This is not the first time the Kenyan state is using this extra legal means to deal with communist organizers, including myself. Remember, this is not an isolated incident. It has been a consistent tactic by the Kenyan state to silence the organizers of the workers and the peasants in these countries. It's not the first time that the Kenyan state is attacking me. I remember last year, just about the same time we had an attempt of my life by the state. And then other than that, we also had a second round of an attempt of my life when the state, there was an all out shooting of the party cars. So we have been aware that the state has put some of their leaders on both physical and digital surveillance. And we have been preparing to make sure that we can have a way to deal with extra legal means that the state has imposed against our leadership. So on the on the 24th of February, it has also it has to be known in the context that the Communist Party, Marxist Kenya, had lined several activities. Because remember, the founder of Kenya, the Dedan Kimati, who is also the symbol of a national democratic revolution, was hanged on the same month by the British, you know, by the British, Imperial British, during the colonialism. uh the 18th of february so the communist party marxist kenya normally have the february month as a very sacred month to commemorate a dead and kimati and in this case uh this year the party had lined up a congress for the women that was going to take place on the 27th we were also launching the uh the cpmk youngsters which is actually a young pioneers program to train the under 16 members in preparation to join the party ranks so the state was very aware of the a number of activities that the party had organized and then this this party activities were going to take place in various parts of the countries and we're also going to commemorate uh dead and kimati and unveil the general program of the national democratic revolution And the attempt to stall all these processes was to make sure that they actually are able to kidnap one of the key leaders that was the center of this, and that was the general secretary, which is myself. Now, on the 24th of February, first of all, the party had a number of international guests that had visited the country. We had almost 34 international guests in the country that had come in to participate in this event and particularly to help us in the CPMK youngster program. And I was at the center in terms of coordinating in the north of the country, which is in the sea alone. And also the main point of activity was going to take place where the party is at its strongest, which is CIA County. Now, at the verge of it, when I was just approaching the, you know, the surrounding of Nairobi, The car that I was being driven on was hijacked by, you know, men that did not identify themselves as police officers. And in this case, what could we have done in the car was to create alarm and make sure that the general public knew that there was an incident that was taking place. And that essentially is what saved our lives. Because remember, when the state tries to use extra legal means like kidnapping and to try and subdue communist organizing, what it basically means is that if they succeed, to kidnap you silently without people having to know that you're being kidnapped, then the worst could be waiting. And the worst will be anyway to make sure that they can kill you because if they wanted to actually arrest us, and make sure that you are reigned in court, then there's no way that they could ambush us in the dark and then, you know, and kidnapping us without legally arresting us. So this was an extralegal attempt by the state. And we had to fight and make sure that the general public know that there was an incident that are happening. And of course, we were shouting our names and people knew that the general secretary of the Communist Party was the one that is the confrontation. And we knew that these were tags for the first time. And later on that now we were subdued that one of them produced the police car and say that we are under arrest. At that time, they had broken one of my tooth. They had extremely dislocated my left arm and we did not know what was waiting because at that time we had to still proceed with our abductors in the same car to drive to Nairobi where the party had rented quite a few apartments to make sure that our international guests could stay there and participate in these activities. So this is what really happened, that we had to proceed to Nairobi. And that was directed to one of the apartments that was rented by the Communist Party Marxists, and this was the Apel Tree apartment. Now, when we arrived at the apartment in the presence of my abductors, I was surprised that one of the people that were managing those apartments were actually in the presence of the car. I did not realize that he was there until we arrived at the apartment. When we arrived at the apartment, of course, the comrades were there and some of them, they were just having a leisure time before the policeman broke the door to search the apartment. Fortunately enough, when they broke the apartment, they got more comrades in their apartment and they were surprised to see me in the presence of these Again, armed 21 people that were surrounding me. Again, a fight ensued, which is generally what was expected because they were wondering who has arrived at Bukam and who are these and what were the looking for. Anyway, they demanded, like anybody else would do, that if Buka is under arrest, they want to see any court documents to ensure that, to make sure that this is a legal arrest. They refused that the apartment should not be searched. And they were asked clearly to produce a such warrant, which they did not produce. And also the combat realized that I was in pain and I was in very bad state. My T-shirt was actually torn. And they continue to insist that if there are police officers, then they must produce reasonable, um uh you know legal reasons why i was in police custody and why they had to storm that particular apartment because within the same block we had rented some 8 18 units that was hosting our international guests um you know as part of the activities of the the february activities so this is essentially what actually happened only that now when we arrived at the apartment, it was a CCTV area. And one of the people that was managing the apartment managed to actually take some of the photos out to ensure to the media and to tell them that I was under attack and that I was in custody of unknown people and the apartment had been broken into. It is also important that at the point of my arrest, since I have had problems dealing with firearms before, at the point of my arrest, I was not armed at that time. But the police insisted that I need to produce my firearm and they continued to beat me, asking for where my firearm was. This is important for the general public to know, because remember, the police narrative was that I had pulled a firearm on them. And I was wondering if you were to pull a firearm of 20 armed people and you only have one pistol, then that was a suicide mission. But the police still continued to insist that I was a dangerous criminal that was armed to the teeth. And in the charges, as you have seen, one of the charges that have been brought forth is that I assaulted the police officers, that I caused bodily harm to the police officers, while even the sitting magistrate could see for themselves that I was really the one that was hurt during this terrible episode. And also, in terms of the police narrative, after this photo went out, probably the police was unaware that this could be exposed at this early stage because it's about 6pm in the night. There was a viral photo of myself in a very bad condition. And then the central organizing committee released a statement about my abduction and now things started to be very difficult for the police officers. So they created this bad narrative that this was just in fact, they locked the scene of crime only at the apartment and tried to talk to the general public. that I was basically in an apartment that I was arrested in with other people that were dealing with drugs. And we assaulted the police officers. This was the narrative that they wanted to get to the general public. But within a very short time, there was a quick mobilization. And my comrades started streaming into the police station, which was actually just at the outskirts of Nairobi. The media then started to come in, the African stream started to come in, and then the story started to get out of my abduction. It's also important to understand that all the cars that were at the airport tree apartment belonged to the parties were searched without the search warrant. Nothing was gotten into those cars before I was locked in. In the event that that story went out, I think the police did not know how to deal with it because then everything, every minute started to be a crisis for the police officers. The police station that I was being arrested were being surrounded by many people. The media was looking for me. There was an international solidarity online and that brought confusion for the police officers to deal with this case. So this is essentially what happened on the 24th of February comrades.

Adnan Hussain: Well, the first thing that I really have to ask you, Booker, is after reading, you know, very soon after and seeing early photos that you mentioned were released, how... injured you were by the police. At the time, they weren't even identifying themselves as police, but we could say these thugs who assaulted you for the state. How are you doing now? Have you recovered since then? I mean, I know everyone has been very worried about all of those injuries, and I know that you've suffered more in prison, and we'll talk about what happened. But how are you doing physically after these terrible assaults upon you?

Booker Amole: I would say that my spirit still remain unbroken, but I'm physically weak because of my left arm that still suffered dislocation. I had one of my, of course, some of those injuries, I will have to live with them permanently in my life because For example, my missing tooth. Remember, I had to put a post to ensure that at my age I cannot grow another another another another teeth. So those those are some of the permanent uh dance that i will have in my life so physically i'm still very weak and also the level of my detention was very humiliating both in the police station and the romance so i also developed some skin rashes that still i continue to deal with i i'm not sure about my eyesight but i already had an eyesight checkup i never have an eye problem until this um very incident. So I could say that physically, I am still very weak, but my revolutionary spirit is very high. I am recuperating my finger that was injured with a penknife. I'm still under recovery. But in essence, I could say that I am on my way to recovery. The people have been very kind to me. So essentially, I'm doing pretty well. And I am with comrades, which is the best thing for me. But I can see that in the next few maybe days, I should be able to recover fully. This is what I could say.

Adnan Hussain: Yeah, we really hope and wish for a full recovery. I know comrades around the world are wishing the best for you. And that kind of leads me to the question I wanted to ask you about is it seems that in this story up to this point already a few things have been clear that both in kenyan society and outside of kenya there was quick solidaristic action i note that people at the initial time of the attack on the car that you making noise, people came and rushed and it changed the atmosphere and the outcome. The police had to really identify themselves already. Also, the people who were renting the place and had access to CCTV saw what was happening to you and they put out those photos right away. This is interesting to me how much quick acting and solidarity in the community in Kenyan society. Is there anything, you know, I mean, of course you have many comrades who know of your work outside and as soon as it became aware to them, they have been demanding, but what is the kind of organization and kind of social solidarity in Kenyan society? How would you explain and understand this kind of resistance to state repression and courage that people have for quick action that was very important in transforming the situation from one where they could just abduct you in the dark and without scrutiny and surveillance, but was transformed into one that the public knew about and could act upon.

Booker Amole: I think it's important to acknowledge that the number of state abductions and kidnapping, not just against party members, but in this country has continued to grow up because the neocolonial state here is facing an extreme crisis. And one of the instruments that we have in the name of the Kenyan constitution offers several civil liberties for the people. So sometimes the state feel very helpless to use the loss of the land to actually try to suffocate activists or revolutionaries. So therefore, the state is forced to use extra legal ways to hide their criminality. So since the last year's crisis, during the social explosion that happens in the street, The Communist Party Marxist Kenya has been very clear that the only way that we can be able to protect ourselves and to protect members of the public against abductions and kidnappings by the state police, is to make sure that we respond through collective resistance. This is one thing that has been repeated several things since the last social explosion to try and address issues that deals with the police abductions and kidnapping. that the Kenyan public responded to my kidnapping. This is the way that the Kenyan public responded to my abduction in a way to show clear solidarity that there's no other way that the Kenyan state can be held accountable other than through the collective assistance of the people and to bring solidarity both nationally and internationally. And by the time that the radio stations were calling, the officer commanding the station to ask, whether Buka was in their custody. This was also the pressure from our property. So in essence, what we are saying is that we have been consistent and in terms of we published several articles. educate the general public on how to deal with them cases of police abductions and kidnapping but also the most important thing that the police probably wasn't aware of that the police station that they were holding me in which is at no longer police station of mombasa road it's only a few meters where we are organizing the workers which is the economic processing zone This is just less than a kilometer away from the economic processing zone where we have our strongest party organization at EPZ. This is what actually brought the flooding of the workers around the police station to demand actually my release. So in essence, we are saying that in terms of social solidarity and in terms of putting more pressure in the Kenyan neocolonial state, to make sure that they can produce the people that they have abducted or kidnapped. It is actually a clear policy that has been continued to be produced by the party that the response must be collected and from below. And that this is what actually saved my life.

Henry Huckamacki: You know, Adnan had mentioned in his question, solidaristic actions and the importance of solidaristic actions. But there's also another way of looking at it, which is that solidaristic actions in many cases are what bring the wrath of the neocolonial state down. So when we were talking about what. incited this event on February 24th, we talked about how there was a protest outside of the U.S. Embassy against the abduction of Venezuela's President Nicolas Maduro. It was after this event that you were abducted. The Kenyan state demanded to know who was financing the protest outside of that embassy. Were you getting foreign funding in order to show solidarity with Venezuela? So there's this connection between solidaristic action of you and of the party with Venezuela, another struggle against imperialism. That then brings the wrath of the Kenyan neo-colonial state down on you and the police. They have an investment in suppressing solidarity with Venezuela. And then on the other hand, I also want to bring in a discussion. You mentioned that you were held in prison. You were held past the 24-hour constitutional limit, denied bail on technical grounds, put into isolation in a Ketingela Raman prison. which you describe in an article as a prison within a prison. So I'm wondering if you can also, in addition to talking about not only the importance of solidaristic actions, but the threat of solidaristic actions to the state, what were the conditions of your isolation cell like? And also, can you tell us about how that condition that you were held in also informs us of how the state treats those who it deems politically dangerous, those that it deems able to carry out these solidaristic actions that bring their wrath down upon you.

Booker Amole: First of all, it's important that from the Second National Congress, the party has been very clear that the principal enemy for the Kenyan people is United States imperialism. This has been very clear to us. And the primary enemy has been the local agents of the United States imperialism that we refer to as the comparative bureaucrat bourgeoisie here. And that in that case, we have also been able to demonstrate to the Kenyan people that unless imperialism is weakened within the Kenyan borders and also that the anti-imperialist forces here in Nairobi join with other anti-imperialist forces globally, to challenge United States imperialism, then there is no hope for the global working class. This has been said very clearly through our communication. So in essence, the United States dominance class knows that they are being challenged actively here through the Communist Party, Marxist Kenya. When the issue about the arrest of Maduro came in, our party members are very clear about the role of solidarity and internationalism in terms of advancing the struggle of the global proletariat. And in essence, a committee was therefore created on free Nicolas Maduro, which I was convening, co-convening with Comrade Ashlyn, which is the she's the head of the international relations in the party. And we put up this committee, and the first thing was to release a statement in solidarity with Nicolas Maduro and the Bolivarian Revolution, and to try to give clear comparisons between the struggles of the Venezuelan working class and the Kenyan working class, and to persuade the Kenyan general public why it is important to challenge the United States at their doorstep, which was in the embassy. So we actually organized together with other 15 anti-imperialist organizations here to stage a march towards the United States Embassy to make it clear that the United States Embassy must understand that the general public of Kenya does not welcome the kidnapping of a sitting president of Venezuela, and that we will continue to challenge that through the main tactic of our struggle. Because we say that this treaty is our site of the struggle, and this is what actually happened. Now, the Kenyan government always want to portray revolutionaries and activists as paid activists. They never have any logic that there are people who could advance the real cause of humanity without having to be paid money, just like other Western countries always pay members of parliament, always pay executive members of government, and even to recruit certain paid demonstrators to lobby for anti-people policies. So in essence, there was an active smear campaign against my person and the party that we have been receiving, where we have been receiving money from Venezuela. And we were saying, how can a country under the yoke of imperialism, how can a country that has been subdued so much, that have nothing, it's like asking for guerrillas fighting against the enemies, like asking Mau Mau that are in the forest to give you money. So that smear campaign stalled, and people realized that most of our comrades here actually live very basic lives, that in essence, if there was any money coming from Venezuela, then we could be probably having even three meals a day. Why would we be in the streets struggling this much when we have received money from Venezuela? and remember also this issue that the united states had mentioned about venezuela being a knuckle state so they were saying that we are also linked to some drug cartel that is operating in caracas but all these things were slander there was mere campaign to make sure that they attack the genuine solidarity on the street in solidarity with venezuela And remember, before this, there was also an escalation in terms of street action against the genocide that was happening in Palestine. So we were asking the head of operations that do they really believe that palestine as it is or what they call hamas would be able to send money for people to demonstrate in nairobi but clearly they have no logic to understand why there could be people going to the street you know to demonstrate in solidarity with palestine and call out the zionist israel to stop their genocide and to call the united states to free Nicolas Maduro. So we could say that the government's mere campaign actually stalled. And when I was being held in custody, of course, I refused to be interrogated with foreign agents. And when these foreign agents, mainly that I suspected to be Israelis, came to to where I was being held at Mnolongo, I demanded to know who they are and why a Kenyan abductee, in that sense, why would he be allowed to talk to foreign agents? And who are they? Because remember, they were foreign journalists that the government of the day refused to actually access me and also to interview me. But now there are three. gentlemen, mainly white gentlemen, you know, maybe they were Kenyans, maybe they're not, but you cannot talk to me without clearly identifying themselves. And that is how the issue of the narcotics make it to my charge sheet, in essence, in trying to portray me to the general Kenyan public as one person that is aligned to the narco state, which they were calling Venezuela, which was really very unfortunate. In essence, I was able to release certain videos from my detention, particularly from the station, which is basically a very pathetic holding center for the so-called the criminals, because those people that are being held at the police stations, are essentially suspects. They are not convicted for any crime. And the police stations within the Kenyan constitutions are only meant to hold you in less than 24 hours before they can present you before a competent judge. But you realize that when I was in In the Mrolongo police station, I met very poor Kenyans that have stayed in the police station for weeks and weeks that have not been produced in court. So the first video that went viral during the police station was for me addressing the kind of, you know, the kind of uh state that some of these people are they were mainly uh you know kenyans that are fighting for survival hawkers you know people that sell petty things in the street that have been arrested also it was very unfortunate that the officer commanding the stations was in cahoots with criminals because at night, mainly there will be criminals in the cell. And what they will do is the police actually goes to arrest people in drinking places. And they bring them in that, you know, that three by four room, which should be actually be handling less than 10 people. But we were there almost 36 of us. And when the night goes by, they will continue putting, you know, just drunk people in. And these two people that were in the payroll of the police will help to frisk people that have been brought in. take their personal items, take money from them, and by 6 a.m. in the morning they will be set free with the money from the police cell. And all this money will be shared basically with the police officer. So this is something that was really very disturbing and annoying. And finally, I was secluded in one of these corners in the police station without access to any toilet facilities. I was literally there myself. And there was a bucket where I was meant to leave myself. And again, of course, I am a propagandist. I got to help the Kenyan public understand the situation where I was arrested. Again, next morning when this video make it, of course, to the Kenyan public, they were caught unaware as why, who took the video. But generally, it's the same police officers that took the video that was sympathetic to my situation to make sure that they could highlight. So even within the Kenyan police force, we were very, there are people within the Kenyan police force that are sympathetic to our struggles. So because essentially when you are held there, the only people access you are the police officers. So they could actually not say that I was in any way trying to sabotage the police where the police themselves able to take my videos in jail and photos and release them to the general public to help them understand the significance of my abduction and the status of my of my arrest. And this also creates a lot of problems for the police, because remember now the following day they had to allow the human rights activists to access me to make sure that I was in good health. There was some preparation in terms of a meal, which was, of course, not a well-balanced meal. I was able to get water on day two of my arrest. But again, this was forced upon the Mr. Peter Mugambi, who was actually the officer commanding the stations to save, to actually try to save his face, that he was holding a political prisoner. And in essence, he needed to provide some basic, you know, some basic rights to myself. And even in terms of delaying the records, the police always want to cheat the law that they have created. Remember, when I was arrested and detained on the 24th, I arrived at the police station at 8 PM. But by the time I was being registered at the occurrence book, they made sure that my registration at the occurrence book took place after midnight. so that they do not count for the time before the midnight, and that they can be able to explain to the judge that I was actually arrested past midnight and not before midnight. But unfortunately, it became a place where the police were going against the court of public opinion, because the issue about my arrest had already gone viral. So the construction and the publication of the police officers were actually minimal in terms of them trying to determine the public opinion in court. Because essentially, everybody knew Buka was arrested. Everybody was talking about it. So even what they had portrayed in the occurrence book, they looked like fools trying to convince the judge that Buka was not arrested at this time. Buka was arrested after midnight. So we would like to actually just put it out there that the status in which the Kenya police detains the suspects is very dire. Most of the police cells are extremely crowded. The hygiene is not something to take home about. And basically, it only reflects the British colonial prisons. In fact, if you are in the police cell and you have studied the prison diaries of Dedan Kemathi, you can see a lot of similarities between the current Kenyan prisons and what Dedan Kemathi called the hole of the poor, where people are held in very extreme conditions. They do not have enough food or water. And the police officers had high handedness to demonstrate their powers against these poor people that are being held. Essentially, I was produced late after 48 hours in court. But they had more surprises for me in court because They had mobilized the media to try and bring out a different narrative about my arrest. And to my surprise, there was one Mr. Andrew Amoth, who was the person that had rented to the party these apartments to hold the party guest. So there was a affidavit signed by the investigating officer, Mr. Munenem, that had indicated that I had an attempt to kill the landlord. And in that case, the Mr Andrew Amod's life was in danger and they were asking the court to actually you know agree with them that in the event that I am released then this person called Andrew Amod's life is going to be in danger and since I was armed and I was not just a threat to the police but I was also a threat to this particular person So there was an affidavit to ask the magistrate to make sure that I can be detained and remanded as long as this case lasts, because for the reasons to protect the life of my landlord, the innocent Kenyan. This I found very ridiculous. And even though my lawyers were able to challenge that this was a defective affidavit, it was concocted, it was fabricated, and even demanded to cross-examine the landlord in court. And fortunately, the judges agreed with us. that the affidavit was actually defective and that there is a need for a pretrial before any ruling was done, whether I was meant to be detained as long as this case actually lasts or whether I was going to be released on some reasonable bond or cash bill tax. This we found very positive from the Kenyan judiciary, in essence, to even ask that in the event that this case had political connotations in it, it is not a normal case. So the judge also ordered for the probation officer to give a probation report in the event that the magistrate decides to give us bonds and cash bill, the magistrate would want to rely on what you call the probation report to make sure that she does not act unfairly or even give us certain bill terms that cannot be met. So we found that the judge, the sitting judge at that moment protected our rights. And even when she declared that we should be remanded for another one week for the probation report to come out, we welcomed that ruling because also we did not want to act in a way that we are in a hurry to get out of the police station because the Kenya police is very vicious in their actions. We know for a fact that their people have been politically framed in this manner. And when the judges agree that they'd be released, they have been liquidated. They have been killed on the way. And this is what informed my lawyers to agree with the judge that we are not going to challenge the magistrate court for manding me for another six days waiting for the probation report. And the issue is not going to be taken to challenge the judge's decision at the High Court, which normally is what should happen. If the magistrate denies you the bail, remands you in the police custody, then your lawyers have the liberty to go to higher courts to make sure that the incarceration, the extra incarceration for six days is squashed and ask the high court to provide the reasonable bond terms and cash bills. But that is what landed myself and other comrades at Kitengela Roman Prison. Now, the Kitengela Roman prison was a very difficult experience for us. But like we always say, as revolutionaries, we have also prepared ourselves mentally that one day we may find ourselves in jail. So it basically means that we had the mental strength to resist any Opression amongst you know, that will be imposed upon us within the romanticism. But also we want to say that we found a lot of warm people in prison, especially the junior prison officers that sympathized with our stories that have been watching these stories unfold. we also find prisoners who knew ourselves, knew the party. Some of them were also party members that had not seen in a while. So the prison became a place for us to actually advance our revolutionary work. And in essence, Kenyan prisons are just like all other neo-colonial prisons. In fact, if they say that prisons are for reforms, There is actually no reforms in prison, in the Kenyan prison. You will realize that in the Kitangela prisons, all drugs are there, all narcotics are there. Who takes those drugs into prison? Are they not the same government that have locked these people up? So there is no rehabilitation taking part in prison. Even for... You know, in prison there is also class disparities. There are rich prisoners and there are poor prisoners. And you can even see them in their physical uniform. There are prisoners with clean, neat uniforms and there are others with tattered uniforms. When the meals are being served, you can see some class disparities. There are people, rich prisoners, that have paid the cooks to make sure that some food is set aside for them. So there are people eating in excess in prison, while others are starving in prison. This is class differences that you can see in the prison of, in Kitengela, Roman prison. We can also see the smuggling routes that takes place. Those people with money will be able to smuggle anything in prison to make sure that they can sustain their life, even though the people with money spend very little time in prison, maybe two to three weeks. But some of the interviews that we did in prison, I know we will be able to release some of those interviews in due course. You realize that some people have been able to be in jail for more than two years. The trial is yet to start and the bond terms is only between five thousand to ten thousand shillings. So it basically means you are in prison for two years for lacking ten thousand shillings. That is basically hundred dollars, you know, just in in comparison. So. It reflects what the said that the colonial prisons then and the new colonial prisons now is a hole for the poor people. While the rich only pass there and find how to bribe their way and live a comfortable life in prison before they leave, but the poor has no such luxuries. Now, the Kenyan prison authorities the conditions of the prison officers are very dire. And that is why we said that the lower cadres of the prison officers, the lower ranks, they are much more warm. They like to associate themselves with us. They will want us that when we get out of prison, we try to highlight their struggles as prison officers. In fact, one of the guards that were guarding me told me, Buka, when you come out, try to also speak about us because we live here with a salary of less than $100 a month. We stay in these shackles here, which is basically iron shithouses. I am locked with you here as also a prisoner because I'm in uniform. You are in uniform. And in the event that fire comes out of this prison, we all burn. So he says the rich people come to this prison, or influential people come to this prison, but never raises the plight of the prison wardens that are actually locked. Because remember, in prison, the maximum prison, there are actually seven gates. And after each gate, there is a prison officer with a gun, another one and another one. So there's seven of them. So they do not have the key to access. Just the same, I also have a bucket in my room. They also have a bucket outside there. So essentially, we are all prisoners here. So you can see how possible is it that This prison officer that earns $100 a day, not a day, but a month, if you give him less than a dollar, he will be able to bring you anything from outside jail. Because for them, they see this as an extra income. So this was very disturbing for the Kenyan prison authorities, especially after my release. And they realized that there were all videos all over the Internet about my detention. First of all, how did the cameras come to jail? How did the books come to jail? How did my prison notes left jail? How was I able to deliver a speech in jail in solidarity with Iran while Iran was under attack and I was in prison? So what we could say is that the Kenyan authorities, though, were surprised, but I also, not even arrogantly, I replied to them that the same way you are able to smuggle drugs to actually make sure that you make profits of the prisoners is the same way those books were able to get into prison and leave prison. It's the same way those cameras were able to get to prison and leave prison. So in the event, everybody was frisked because when you get into prison, you undress totally naked, squat and make sure that everything is not amongst you. So it basically means that anything that comes into prison is smuggled by the prison officers themselves. And there is no legal basis where they could say that book I did so and so, because they were part of what was being done in the prison. And majority of the junior prison wardens were quite sympathetic to our struggles. And in terms of the repression, I was not convicted. I had not gone through a full trial. So the kind of holding facility was also meant to break my spirit. Remember, I was in capital. Capital is actually what you call here in Kiswahili, Jelakubwa, the biggest jail, where you have some 5,000 uh convicted um you know hardcore criminals mainly people that have been convicted on robbery and violence the people who have been convicted on murder charges that have been held how is it possible that a rumandi who was also a political prisoner was able to be placed in such a prison where we have seven gates as if I had murdered or I had committed some hardcore offenses. Even in terms of naming, in prison there is what they're calling prisoners under special watch. So you remember that most of my uniform was written SW, means that I was under high risk. I was meant only to benefit by getting out one hour every day to get the sunlight, even though out of the kindness of the prison wardens, sometimes I was able to be out for almost three to four hours. be out of my good relations with some wardens. I was even sometimes able to be taken to the library, which was basically nothing there, just a few colonial books. I was able to go to the prison room and these in the night. All these were done against the authorities, the main authorities of the prison. So what I'm trying to demonstrate that also there are human beings in prisons who are sick of this new colonial system that are sympathetic to the lives of revolutionaries and activists and are willing, even though the state had placed me in such extreme circumstances in jail, but I still found some people that were jailed or I found some prison wardens that were much more sympathetic to me. And even when I was exposed on the second day before I was presented to court, that I was conducting some political activities, even though they were only suspecting that in court, and I was placed in isolation. Isolation is actually a prison within a prison. It's a two by three. There's no mattresses. There is no toilet and you literally, you are there on clean concrete, on cold concrete for the entire 24 hours in the name of punishing you for breaking prison norms. But again, all this, I only read them in books, but now I was facing them firsthand. And I think, like we always say in the party, that when revolutionaries find themselves in prison, the most important task for us to do is to try and you know protect our lives to make sure that we can preserve our lives because we know you know we have a bigger life outside the jail and also to try and conduct you know political work within jail and even now i could say that the short time we spend in jail we were able to get a party unit within the same jail and and now In our opinion, even last week, when we visited the prison, even though the prison authorities did not allow us. To visit to actually have 1 on 1 conversation with some of our new recruits in jail, but we are able to talk to them and. For sure, they have to do a lot of realignment in the jail that they held us in. Now we are aware that some of our best recruitees that we left in jail have been transferred from Kichangela prisons to other prisons in the countries in the basis to try to demobilize them to conduct those any activities. But again, we say that if you take them to other prisons, it's even better for them because they will be going there with the message from it. It basically means that the government is able to deploy, you know, our agents in other prisons. So we hope that the work that we did in Kitengela prisons will continue to advance in all other Kenyan prisons. And we could bring we could be able to bring the plight of the prisoners. In fact, even the fact that we demonstrated that it was viable to make sure that you can get out videos out of jail. Now we see from last week some prisoners also sending videos out of jail to say that the life in jail is bearable. So they have actually learned from the good examples. by just making sure that they can also say their own stories in the best way they can. And they say that they're not going to reforms. This is a place for only the poor people to demonstrate for the other poor people that if you dare to steal from the rich or if you dare to do anything against the rich man, then you may land yourself in prison. So these are some of the reflections that we are actually dealing with. But tomorrow, on Wednesday, we will launch a small video on our experiences in jail and also call upon the general public to show solidarity with us, especially to meet the legal expenses and some of the medical expenses that we are still pursuing today. We hope that it will be an educative piece for the Kenyan masses to be able to understand what happens behind the walls of the Kenyan prisons.

Adnan Hussain: Well, maybe this is a good opportunity to talk a little bit further about the court process that you've been engaged in. You were able to secure bail at a certain point. And I believe that the charges that have been multiplying and then contracting are an interesting story in themselves because the basis for the story that the government and the police officials, higher police officials have made to try to justify your incarceration and detention has begun to fall apart. They've had to change many things about their story. And perhaps you can tell us how that case against you has already started to unravel fairly dramatically.

Booker Amole: Yeah, first of all, when the... The officer commanding the OCS, we call him here, commanding the station where I was being held at Mlolongo, went viral on the media. What it did was to portray me as an armed, dangerous criminal that is actually linked to some drug cartels from Latin America. This was the narrative of the Kenya police And he went even overboard to demonstrate how they were able to confiscate Glock pistols and ammunitions and what they were calling narcotics in the presence of their search in the house that had directed them to. So this has been the narrative and this informed the first charge that I was accused of holding, being in possession of illegal firearm and ammunitions. So this was the first charge that came forth. The second one was that I actually assaulted the police officers, you know, during my arrest. And the second charge that other than assaulting the police officer, that I prevented the police officer from carrying out their lawful duties and resisted a lawful arrest. In essence, I even prevented the police officer from arresting other people having committed crimes. And then they also put the issues of narcotics on it, which was another three counts and being in possession of marijuana and other drugs that they had indicated. So this was the police narrative. Fortunately enough, on the first pretrial, the officer at the Register of Firearm Bureaus produced document to demonstrate that the Glock firearm was actually allocated to Buka from 2013 and Buka has been using it responsibly. to basically save his life and even demonstrated that the last year the last year's case on when i was attempted to uh to on my attempted assassination the same firearm was used to neutralize you know the assassins and the police has clear records of how the same firearm has been used including the 24 rounds of ammunition that they were purchased within the recognized police outspot. And I have not in any way been in cases that I have used my firearm, you know, carelessly. So essentially, they were telling the prosecution that the case is not triable in case number one, and they have no option but to remove that judge. So this was the first trial. Could you...

Adnan Hussain: Perhaps before you get to the next segment of this, after this first one, for those who are not aware of what happened previously last year, we had, I believe, had you on the program talking about the street protests against austerity in Kenya, particularly among the youth. and the efforts of the Communist Party Marxist Kenya to try and inject some ideology and organization to make these more effective and to good political consequence. And then a week or so later, this assault, and as you're describing, assassination attempt seems to have happened. Perhaps listeners need to know what you're referring to. What happened?

Booker Amole: Yes. During the social explosion in the street where a number of young people, now known as the GNC uprising, appeared in the Kenyan street to challenge what, in our own analysis, was the crisis of imperialism and the austerity measures that were imposed upon the Kenyan working class. the Communist Party Marxist Kenya was very instrumental in terms of organizing the street protest and even bringing a new consciousness to reinterpret what the young people were saying in the street, which the government saw this as a threat and in actual sense started to round up the leaders of the party And in essence, in the event that they were not able to arrest them legally to also impose extra legal ways. And in fact, after that incident, one of the people that actually lost their lives during my attempted assassination was actually a government worker. It was actually a member of the National Intelligence Service system. And this exposed the government very badly in that manner. So also, it is also important to realize that any time the Kenyan government has tried to intimidate us, has tried to liquidate us, and the same goes to the Kenyan public. This has only been able to win as supporters. This has only been able to win us empathy and sympathy among the Kenyan people. So what now the government is doing is trying to actually discredit us. against the Kenyan masses. This, I think, is the new tactic that the government would like to use, that instead of outrightly arresting revolutionaries, instead of outrightly trying to kill them or even trying to to harass them or even trying to, because we were wondering, for example, when we went to the United States embassy, we were sure that we are going to be arrested, but unfortunately we are only beaten and let go because they realized that arresting us at that moment will not help their case. And in fact, once we arrested in the police station, the police stations becomes ungovernable. People come there and they cannot conduct the activities. So the next stage of action now is mainly a smear campaign to make sure that they can they can portray us as dangerous criminals, as narcotics against the Kenyan masses. This is the tactic now that we are dealing with other than the old tactics of the state that was just meant to confront us in terms of when we are doing our revolutionary work. So in essence, what we are saying is that the firearm that was alleged to be possessed illegally by myself found the documentation in the government system. And that particular report from the Registered Firearms Bureau made that charge triable. But unfortunately, instead of the prosecution dropping the entire charge, they made a horrible appeal to make sure that they're going to revise the charge, that now that the firearm is legal, they are actually going to charge me for misusing a legal firearm. And this misusing of the legal firearm was that I threatened the police officers 24 armed police officers with AK-47 and one man with a Glock. It's it's it's mind blowing how that can be a threat. But as we always say that we are going to demonstrate, you know, within the court, that is not that case is not triable. But they are also saying that the same firearm that now is legal was used to aim at the landlord, Mr. Andrew Amoth, and that I had told him that I will kill him, because this is what they actually said in court. Now, so in the first trial, we say that the prosecution, the Department of Public Prosecution, the Kenyan police lost in the court of public opinion because now it started to unravel the real fabrications around my arrest. And I think that when the local media highlighted this, it was very interesting because remember even within the broader Kenyan left, there are people who also had started to believe the police narrative, but now it was starting to fall apart. Now, after this revision of the charge was done, then there was a second pretrial. And in the second pretrial, I was meant to take a plea on the new charge sheet, which I did. But again, the lead star witness, the state witness, also filed an affidavit how the Kenya police threatened him that in the event that he does not cooperate with the police, that he will be held accountable for allowing criminals to use his house and even to make sure that he was part and parcel of the criminality that was going through his house, that his house were being used to, you know, to to accommodate foreign nationals that were linked to terrorist organizations like Hamas, that his house was being used to conduct drug trades and to trade in small arms. and that his house was also being used to mercenaries that were linked to the Chinese Communist Party. And that if he does not cooperate with the police to frame a booker who, as a general secretary of the party, that then he would be able to also face the consequences of law of the Kenyan law. And in in essence, they will bankrupt him because he will lose business opportunities because these houses are unsafe for the Kenyan people. Now, after the case starts to unfold, he came out of what he called, he is a Christian and his conscience does not allow him to participate in this fabrication and filed an affidavit to say that indeed he was part of the police search in his own houses He also said clearly that there is no given time that I had appointed a firearm at him. But in fact, I handed over my firearm and the munitions that were actually well kept in a safe in one of the bedrooms to the police officers when they were beating me. And there was no way that the firearm was discharged. The lead witness also said that even after the search, there were no narcotics that were found in his presence in those houses, unless they were in the car that was used to drive Buka in the same premises. But in his own houses, he was not able to identify when he was doing the search with the police officer, any of the narcotics that were found. And this was really something for us, because in essence, as the landlord, we've only been able to associate with him through the finance secretary to be able to pay the bills for those houses for the time that our guests were living there. But now the police had threatened him to now be part and parcel of this fabrication. So this took the sitting magistrate a bit of back in terms of the second pretrial. And she immediately issued summons for the police, the investigating officer, Mr. Munene, and also issued someone to the officer commanding the station at Molongo to appear in court on April 7th for the third pretrial to ensure if because the magistrate was saying there cannot be two truths, that now the lead state witness is coming out with this on affidavit in court to contradict every fact that has been put forth by the police. So again, this brought out a lot of clarity to the general public that it was indeed a political persecution and the state was not dealing with criminals as they had said. So in essence, the state has found themselves in very, you know, in very low moments in terms of this case. And we are heading for a third pretrial. But essentially, if the witness of the state with the affidavit already filed in court, he was called to take oath for the affidavit to be adopted in the law courts. And he came back to court and took an oath to make sure that that affidavit was admissible and even articulated that the OCS had actually showed colleagues that the police had already on, the people that were actually threatening his life was not Buka, but was essentially the police officers themselves. essentially, with that affidavit, the case has essentially collapsed, you know, and cannot be triable. And the application that we have put forth in court is that the prosecution can only waste the judiciary time by making sure that they pursue this case. But in essence, they should come out to the conclusion that the case is not triable and we should open now the real case of illegal arrest and illegal prosecution of ourselves and the state should be able to bear the expenses pay our medical bills and make sure that they can compensate compensate us for the illegal arrests and illegal prosecution and and the malicious prosecution that has so far has taken place So we are looking forward to the April 7th that we are preparing for the third pretrial. Also, the OCS, the police officer that I was under their custody, still has a very neo-colonial mindset. because he has also not taken heed to the court orders. He was ordered to make sure that all my personal items that should be handed over to me None has been handed over. In fact, the cars are still being detained at the police station. My house keys are still being detained at the police station. And even the money that was recovered from the apartment, which was basically $2,500, that I was told that I am organizing an insurgency to overthrow the government with $2,500, the most ridiculous. of all has not also been handed over to me. But we also realized that the police had been trying to negotiate with the landlord to actually hand over the entire CCTV footage. to make sure that they can hide what they had recovered from the house in a way to even steal the 2500 that was meant to overthrow the Kenyan government. So this is something that we will look forward to see on April. We have seen the prosecution and the police have applied. that the pretrial on April should be handled privately. We don't know why they want the case to be taken place privately. They have asked that the case should be taking place at the chambers instead of a public hearing like before. But we hope that if the judge agrees with them and they are able to convince the judge that this should be a chamber's case, then they are going to withdraw those charges that they have placed against our person maliciously. But if that is not the case, our lawyers will continue to demand that the case be heard publicly and the media be allowed to cover that case because It is important also to prosecute the case in the court of public opinion and to tell the Kenyan people that indeed the communists are not criminals. They are just people fighting for the poor and the poorest of the society.

Henry Huckamacki: You know, I would be remiss not to ask this question. You know, Booker, on Guerrilla History, we talk about Fanon frequently. And in fact, just yesterday, Adnan and I conducted another interview rooted in Fanon with our friend Sarah Jelani. Although the episode with you, Booker, will be coming out before that conversation, but listeners can stay tuned for that. You've talked both in this conversation as well as in our previous conversations, and of course you and I text back and forth about this as well, about the neocolonial state and the apparatuses within Kenya and the continuity with the colonial apparatus. You've talked in interviews and in articles that have come out about how Kimathi is still criminalized, how the Mau Mau veterans never got their land, how the flag of Kenya has changed, but the structures have not. when we look at this the event of your kidnapping this in many ways seems to confirm phenom's writing about the pitfalls of national consciousness that the national bourgeoisie would simply take over the colonial police stations and use them against their own people so i'm wondering if you have any reflections or analyses of Fanon's analysis of the pitfalls of national consciousness and the moving into a neo-colonial state from the former colonial structures?

Booker Amole: In essence, probably would I say that Kenya do not have a national bourgeoisie. because even though we reflect on Lenin's writing that the national bourgeoisie in a country dominated by imperialism like Kenya cannot develop independent of imperialism. So we have a parasitic class. actually appointees to manage the Kenyan affairs on behalf of the United States imperialism that we call a comprado bourgeoisie. In essence, the comprado bourgeoisie inherited the colonial state. The only person that left was the white face, but the black face that took the positions of power within the neocolonial state runs it not in the interest of the Kenyan majority, but in the interest and in the dictates of imperialism. This is important to acknowledge. On the national consciousness and Finan's writings, we could also try to bring out that the reactionary nationalism and the revolutionary nationalism can be understood in the context that mainly the members of the Petit Bourgeois that were actually appointed by the British colonial system to manage the Kenyan affairs and to take up the position at that time are the ones that enrich themselves through massive land theft, you know, and also to make sure that they can broker the Kenyan wealth to imperialism. This is important. And that is why we continue to say that the fight for the Kenyan, in fact, as we carry out the National Democratic Revolution, what is the main objective of the National Democratic Revolution? It's essentially to make sure that the principal enemy is weakened at home. And that is why we are saying that the united front against imperialism, brings forth all the anti-imperialist forces in Kenya to make sure that we can suffocate imperialism here and finally weaken it and defeated it because we cannot touch the most urgent task, which is socialist construction. on a country dominated by imperialism. We must have a national democratic revolution to bring sovereignty, to make sure that we prepare the ground for socialist construction towards communism. So in essence, this is what confronts the Communist Party Marxist Kenya, to make sure that we carry out the most important task to consolidate the basic alliance, which is the workers and the peasants to take back their country. And only after that, that the Basic Alliance has taken course that they can be able to bring the allies, other allies like the Petit Bourgeois and other sectoral issues to make sure that we can mobilize the force of majority against imperialism. In essence, that will be the day that we start the socialist construction. So this is what we continue to advance as we carry out our political project here at home to bring that clarity that we are a country being stagnated. Essentially, Adnan and Henry, you realize that there is no capitalist development in Kenya completely. um in fact what you call industrial area in nairobi is a warehouse for cheap imported products there is no production taking place kenya itself is just a broker or you know even though they say that kenya is the land of africa but essentially there is no production taking place uh my country you have 73 percent of the kenyan population still live in the backwardness of rural life and that is why i cite things like know tribalism still finds the root because the politician mobilizes around petty nationalities to divide the basic alliance which is mainly the workers and the peasants so it's it's essence to even not to say that in its essence to bring up the clarity that imperialism has not even allowed kenya to have capitalist development. In essence, these are not industries that are taking place. Kenya is just, we could say, the epicenter of finance capital. So when you come to Nairobi, You will just find, you know, PricewaterhouseCoopers, you'll find banks. So this is, it's important to understand that a majority of the countries in Africa or in the periphery, in the global South did not even get the privilege for capitalist development. So we, and capitalist development in essence could probably help us to advance productive forces. But now even the development of the productive forces doesn't exist. We are reduced to cheap exporters of raw materials. Most of the work with dignity is being exported abroad. In fact, We say that Kenya is a second class economy. Even our ideas are second class. Our vehicles are second class because we are only importing cheap second hand goods. In fact, even at the wave of my arrest when I was telling you the economic processing zone, under the AGOA program of the United States that was marketed as one of the initiative to provide jobs for the Kenyan people is just, you know, a place for modern day slavery because you realize that most of the new products in the economic processing zones are taken to the fast world. And then the second-hand clothes come back home to be put by the rest of the earth, as Fanon will basically put it. And in the special economic zones that we are organizing here, remember the United States multinationals, they get tax holidays. They get subsidies in terms of electricity and water. All the labor rights are suspended in the name of providing employment for the Kenyan people. So you can see how capital has been elevated to attack labor in very precedented ways here.

Adnan Hussain: yes well that is a real um excellent summary of the position in when in your points about there just being a comprador class and not even a real national bourgeoisie class and its connections to the imperialist system i had had a question that i wanted to ask you that perhaps in some ways illustrates and elucidates how that comprador class has to answer to external imperialist demands you know when you had mentioned about these three foreign agents who seem to have appeared in the prison to interrogate you and what kinds of affiliations they might have had. And actually to ask you a little bit further about the close relationships that Kenya has to Israel as a sub sort of command of the sort of Zio-American empire and the way in which, you know, they have been able to facilitate with this counterterrorism discourse, a way of kind of intervening and framing and persecuting people who oppose the genocide in Palestine. And as you did as well put out, even before your kidnapping and abduction, an incredibly clear, I felt outstanding statement on solidarity with Iran to try and put to bed some of these confusions even on the left about dividing the Iranian government from the people when they're facing imperialist onslaught and war, even before the war started, that those kinds of activities and clarity about the anti-imperialism have coordinated with making a target of true anti-imperialist Marxists in Kenya. I mean, if you have anything that you want to elaborate about that, of course, I would welcome it. But I wonder, just by way of possible conclusion, what the next steps in your struggle will be in terms of your own, you know, charges and facing, you know, and organizing around the trial, but also how that you know, reflects the wider analysis that you have and that you plan to use this trial and this situation to advance the cause of, you know, establishing socialism and ending and acquiring and achieving sovereignty. in Kenya, and maybe you can tell people how they can support those efforts materially, morally, spiritually and politically.

Booker Amole: Yeah, first of all, it's important to highlight that it is not legal for foreign agents to interrogate Kenyan prisoners, whether they are criminals or political prisoners. This is something that we find very disturbing, especially when we published the viral piece on Zionism trying to create a mini state in Kenya. And this was just a few weeks ago when the Israeli government, through their, what they were calling cooperation with the Lykipia County, were on massive land buying exercise to create a settlement, an Israeli settlement in Kenya. This is an activity that we rejected. and even organized demonstrations around it. But the Kenyan state is very infused with the Zionist entity in the occupied Palestinian territory and the United States establishment. And in fact, the Mossad and the CIA are headquartered here in Nairobi. And we are not surprised that we are under the surveillance of the two intelligence agencies of the Zionism and the United States. And even when we outright rejected to be interviewed by outright foreign agents that did not want to give their identity and even to interrogators on camera, This was our suspicion because we have always known that, remember, Kenya is a country that is held by imperialism to the teeth. This is what is happening. There is even more disturbing news when I was in jail in regard to the French Africa summit that is coming for the first time in East Africa in May. And as we are doing this interview, There are about 800 French military men in my country, in Lamu, next to the United States' mother islands. And as we had predicted last year, that the French are trying to move their military base from the Sahel region and bring it to Nairobi. And now it is coming to pass that at least in May, they are going to unveil a military pact to make sure that there will be a French military off the Indian Ocean here. This is something we had predicted earlier. when the French government announced that the French Africa summit will take place in Nairobi. And people are saying that, no, no, no, this is not going to happen. As we speak to you now, there's a lot of imperialist offensive in my country. In fact, there is a law underway in Parliament to give French military men immunity, just like British military men immunity, not to be tried on Kenyan law. This is what is happening here. Now, why is solidarity extremely important for us? Because remember, only imperialism want us to see things in only their separateness and not in their interconnectedness. So they want us to see the struggles of the Sahel region as separate as the struggles of the Kenyan people. But our role as revolutionaries is to be able to help the Kenyan masses understand that the redeployment of military arsenal from West Africa, out of the crisis of imperialism there, and what they were calling the military coups, which as we call the anti-imperialist governments that have taken place in that region, You know, in essence, is to make sure that imperialism is actually repositioning their arsenal in the East to be able to liquidate those governments. This is what we must continue to bring out. Now, in line, it's also important, now that you mentioned about Iran, because sometimes I appear in several forums to highlight the importance of solidarity with the heroic people of Iran and its leadership on the pretext of the clarity that Iran is an anti-imperialist project that needs to be protected and supported by all the anti-imperialist forces. This is important for us because only when you can identify the enemy with clarity you know your friends. So sometimes when we are criticized, we say the Iranians are our friends because we are fighting alongside them against the United States imperialism. And in the absence of Iran in West of Asia, then United States influence will actually be what dominates the West of Asia region. And it's important for the United States to be defeated everywhere. And that is why it is important for us to stand in solidarity with Iran and the Iranian working class in opposition to any external aggression by the United States imperialism. And in fact, Iran continues to make us proud because it is the one that is standing against the arrogance, against the arrogance powers of the West. And this is what we continue to also highlight. Some people say, why do communists mobilize during the Al-Quds Day? But for us, Al-Quds Day is a day to show resistance against the arrogant powers of the West. This is important for us to highlight in this show. Everybody that is standing against imperialism is our friends because until imperialism is weakened and defeated, the most urgent task of socialist construction will not be able to take place. It's important to understand the key tenets of internationalism and solidarity and to continue even to relate within the principle of proletariat internationalism and solidarity as we advance our work. Now, the question that you asked, what should be the next step? This is something that we have continued to do every day, any time that our members are being prosecuted. in the Comprado-Bujwa courts, we carry out a parallel prosecution in the most powerful court, which is the court of public opinion. So we have started also prosecuting this case in the court of public opinion to make sure that we exploit this important case to educate the members of the public and to bring the hypocrisy of the neocolonial system and in its inadequacies even if it was a case that to land our members into jail we will be able to to prosecute it with clarity to the members of the public to understand why they should not expect justice in this new colonial system and if whenever justice is clear it has only been given based on certain circumstances and also in terms of public interest It is not always obvious that the trial starts swiftly. In fact, sometimes the trial can start after six months or eight months. But in this particular case, based on public interest and international solidarity that the party has received, we can see that the magistrates is moving swiftly even to give closer dates. Since my arrest, we already had two trials. We are going to have the third trial. This is unprecedented. So it basically means that with more pressure, with more internationalism, with more solidarity, The Kenyan justice system only works when it is under surveillance. So the Kenyan justice system today, as it continued to try the communists in Kenya, also knows that they are being watched. So they want to say the judiciary, we are the good people, we give justice. The Kenyan police fabricated it. So the important task for us is to continue to prosecute this case in the court of public opinion. And I think that is what Adnan and Henry and myself are doing through this show to make sure that we highlight the facts of the case and also to make sure that we can beam live the hearings of this case so that we're not just reporting, but people can see how the current criminal justice system treats the suspects and the people that seek justice into those systems. In terms of support, it's also difficult because the government has criminalized any financial mobilization for the communist parties here. And in fact, now they even made it clear that any attempt to receive direct funding from the communist party will land in jail and will be tried to it. And you remember we used to have an online PayPal system. that was also blocked and of course letters written for the prosecution to stop any of the fundraising. So the only way to raise resources to finance all these things are through proxy organizations. So that is why we say we are welcoming any organizations that we work with. We actually approach international legal people's struggles. We are here at Guerrilla uh history podcast we had talked to marxist leninist reading hype if they can be able to put up um you know uh gofundme on behalf to it's not illegal to raise resources to finance for legal fee and for medical services for individuals. Otherwise, even non-communists need legal representation. Even non-communists need medical care. So in essence, our appeal is that the organizations that show solidarity with us We are asking them if they can set up a fundraising on behalf of the of my co-accused people and myself to make sure that we can defray the legal and the medical expenses that has come very heavily on a party that is always struggling with resources. And this is equally in the spirit of Samora Marshall that says that where solidarity can go beyond words, it must also have its material effects. And even when we are fighting for the Palestinian people, we always say, you brothers of the Palestinian people and sisters, We wish that we could send medicine, that we could fight with you against Zionism. But for now, the chances are so dire. So we can only organize demonstration in the periphery. We can only send you love and hope and know that you're not fighting alone. So we will appreciate any source of solidarity to the Kenyan working class and their political party, the Communist Party Marxist Kenya. And we appreciate it in terms of advancing the struggle for the majority of the Kenyan people.

Henry Huckamacki: Yeah, absolutely. I know that I personally won't be able to set up a GoFundMe because I live in Russia, but I will look for other organizations that have GoFundMe set up and I will include any of those that I do find in the show notes for the listeners that want to and have the ability to contribute to the legal defense and medical care for members of the CPMK. So, again, our guest is our friend, numerous time guest, Booker Amole, General Secretary of the Communist Party, Marxist of Kenya. Booker, it's great to see you again. I'm hoping that your recovery continues quickly, and I can also assure you that we'll have you on the show again in the near future to talk about your new book. building the vanguard party of Kenya. Like I said, we were hoping that we were going to be able to talk about that in the near term and have some happy news, but instead we had this very... dark conversation in many ways, but I do hope that we also provided a revolutionary spirit through this conversation and provided hope for the listeners and ways of looking forward at how to continue to combat imperialism and colonialism and neocolonialism. So with that being said, Booker, is there anywhere that you would like to direct the listeners to in closing? Let them know how to find you on social media, for example.

Booker Amole: Most of our analysis are published at cpmk.org. That is where we try to publish longer articles, but also you can get us on social media as Communist KE or Booker Bureau in all the social media platforms. And we will hope to have conversations there and answer some of your questions that I have not been able to answer during the show.

Henry Huckamacki: Absolutely. And I'll have that linked in the show notes as well. Adnan, this was, as I mentioned at the top, a co-production with the Adnan Hussain show. So hopefully you can let the listeners know where they can find that if they're listening to this on the Guerrilla History feed.

Adnan Hussain: Certainly, but first I just want to say on behalf of both Henry and I, it is wonderful to see you looking well. We hope for full recovery physically and healing, express our solidarity and support, but also we recognize over the course of this discussion that your spirit is unbowed, your analysis continues to be so sharp and clear and effective. And it's so wonderful to have that opportunity to have you share those views and that analysis. So we're looking forward and we certainly will work on ways that we can get around these attempts at barriers and find ways to bring resources and attention and solidarity to your struggle there in Kenya, maybe chuffed.org. After this program, perhaps we can correspond further. And also listeners may have ideas and also want to contribute. So we will be making those appeals. So I just, again, want to uh thank you for all the work you're doing it's very inspiring for people to have this opportunity you're setting an incredible example for your people but for people everywhere about the importance of this struggle so thank you so much and people you can Check out Adnan Hussain's show. It's on YouTube, Adnan Hussain Show. I have a lot of conversations like this over there. Please do follow me on x.com, on Twitter, x.com slash Adnan A. Hussain. where we will keep circulating information about the case, Booker's case, Comrade Booker's case, as well as the activity of the Communist Party Marxist of Kenya. So check those out.

Henry Huckamacki: Absolutely. As for me, listeners, I am not on social media these days. It's just too difficult to get on there with all of the restrictions on people in Russia. But you can still follow my account at Huck 1995 if you would like. But as I mentioned at the top, if you would like to help contribute to guerrilla history and allow us to continue making this show, you can do so at patreon.com forward slash guerrilla history. That's G-U-E-R-R.com. ILLA history. We are a 100% listener supported show that doesn't run ads or anything along those lines. So your contributions are what allow us to continue making the show. But I think that in the spirit of this conversation, if you have something that you can contribute, do contribute it to the legal defense and medical fundraising efforts for the CPMK. So on that note, then listeners and until next time, solidarity.

Adnan Hussain: Bismillahirrahmanirrahim.