Leila Khaled - Colin Edwards Interview (1970)

Colin Edwards: This is Colin Edwards in Beirut, Lebanon. On August 29th, 1969, a Transworld Airlines Boeing 707 jet airliner on its way from Rome to Athens was hijacked by two Arab commandos of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, Ms. Laila Khaled, who commanded the mission, dressed in an elegant trouser suit, and a male companion, Mr. Salim Isawi. They ordered the pilot first to fly to Tel Aviv, and after circling over the airport there, broadcasting defiant messages to the Israelis and words of encouragement to their own countrymen in the occupied lands, they commanded him to take them to Damascus, Syria. When they had landed there, they ordered the passengers and crew off the plane and then blew up the cockpit. The plane's crew and all of its passengers, except for two Israeli men, were allowed to leave the following day. The two Israelis were held in Damascus for three months, and then returned to Israel in exchange for some Syrian pilots who had landed at an Israeli airfield by mistake earlier in the year. During the time that the Israelis were held in the Syrian prison, I tried for five days in Damascus to get permission to visit them, but never received permission to do so. But at least one American correspondent, Jesse Lewis of the Washington Post did get in to see them and, as I recall, reported that they were being reasonably well treated. On their return to Israel, one of the Israelis complained that a Syrian guard had seized him by the throat on one occasion and also that he had been struck with a buckle end of a belt. The Syrians did not bring to trial the two hijackers, but they held them under house arrest for 44 days. After their release, I made contact with Miss Laila Khaled and arranged to meet her one evening at the home of a mutual friend in Beirut, and we spent about five hours together. Miss Khaled is an extremely attractive young lady in her mid-twenties, educated at the American Girl School in Tahr, Lebanon, and the American University in Beirut. She's about 5'4", dark-haired and rather dark-skinned. Tastefully dressed in a stylish sweater and a skirt of modest length, she seemed a picture of a demure, well-bred young woman. At dinner, she was reserved in her conversation, but afterwards, in the privacy of a study, I managed to get her to talk at length, on tape, about herself and her involvement in the Palestine resistance movement. Here is our conversation. I started out by asking her to explain her purpose in hijacking the TWA plane.

Leila Khaled: I did this just because it's our strategy as a popular front. We think that we have to hit the imperialistic interests. And this is one way how to hit it. By hijacking an airplane, we can tell the American government that the Palestinian resistance is aware of whatever the American government is doing to support Israel. We know that America, the American government, is supporting Israel with everything. Weapons, financial aid, all these things make Israel so powerful and make Israel too to work against us. At the same time, we are heading to, you may say, tourism to Israel. We want that to be stopped. I think I can say that the people who were or the passengers who were on that aircraft will think about what's going on in the Middle East or about the Palestinian cause. and these people will go out and tell the others what's going on here they would tell them that we have experienced or we have seen Palestinian Fidei hijacking our plane and we So this is one thing to tell how our resistance is going to work on by cutting the roads to Israel from the outside. At the same time, I believe that everyone would just think for a moment or for more than a moment. If he wants to come for a tour to Israel, he would think maybe he would not reach there. So it's good for our cause to have these people think so. And I think it's a good idea to work on this.

Colin Edwards: I suppose there are two angles to this. One is that some people, when hearing of this as well as experiencing it, would think twice about taking a plane to Israel as a tourist. On the other hand, I suppose some people would resent this sort of interference and think ill of your organization for doing this. Do you think there's some counterproductive aspect to this?

Leila Khaled: I think we would have two ideas about this. One with the pro-hijacking and I may say anti-hijacking. But at the same time, this is not the only job we're going to do. There are many operations of this kind or more than that we would carry on.

Colin Edwards: Now, your organization has also struck in other ways. Directly at El Al Airline, for instance, it was the same organization. Yes. At Zurich Airport, I believe it was, yes. Did you know the people involved in that? I suppose you did.

Leila Khaled: Yeah, I know them.

Colin Edwards: And now they're still in prison in Zurich. Yes, they are. Now, when you undertook this mission, you knew that you might be facing, perhaps, imprisonment, because if something had gone wrong, maybe the pilot would have tricked you and put you down in another country, and then you'd have been arrested.

Leila Khaled: Yeah, but I want to tell you something. I didn't go or I didn't undertake that mission before I've trained about navigation. And so it's hard for the pilot to trick me. And at the same time, I was told that I may die in that mission because we have come over our occupied land. And we thought that maybe the Israelis would shoot us down or maybe the pilot would go down. So we had just to explode or to blow out all the airplane. So I was satisfied. or I thought that it's my mission to do it and that's all. I had no objection to face death or to face arrest or anything because I know that this strategic line that we are thinking of carrying on would get us so many benefits.

Colin Edwards: Now, can you tell us anything without giving away any secrets, of course? How you prepared for your mission?

Leila Khaled: Before my mission with my comrade, I was told that you have an outside to do. I said, okay, what is it? They told me that you have to go to Rome and to overcommand a TWA aircraft. I was astonished, really, because I thought that, how could I do that thing? But they told me, you will be trained, of course. I had not a very long time to be trained for navigation. And then I went for my mission, and it was so easy. Of course, I can't tell how I was trained, but I can say just this. It was really easy to have that, to carry on that mission, because I have a cause, and I believe that this cause or that mission, sorry, can do something for my cause, so I wasn't afraid to do it. Was this your first mission? This is my first outside mission.

Colin Edwards: But you had missions inside Palestine?

Leila Khaled: Yes.

Colin Edwards: So you and your friend, this was Salim Isawi, was it?

Leila Khaled: Salim.

Colin Edwards: Salim Isawi. You just bought tickets for the plane and took your seats?

Leila Khaled: Yes, just like any other passenger. And then we waited for some time to see the cockpit door opened. And then we had our hand grenades in our hands. And we just ran to the cockpit door. My friend told them, don't move. Listen to the orders of the new captain. in reality the new captain that is that was me i haven't eaten that day and i had my pistol in my belt it slipped down to throw my trousers, and that was so funny when I was taking it out of my leg, out of my trousers. And then I proceeded to the captain. I had taken the safety pin of my grenade, and I told him take it as a sovereign. He didn't take it. A souvenir? As a souvenir. And I put it down in front of him. Then I told him that the one in my hand is a hand grenade, and he had to obey my orders. He was astonished, really, to see me, a young lady in front of him, with her hat and her elegant... But I told him, oh, never mind now, because I read that in his eyes. He was so astonished. And really, I didn't want to hurt him or do anything for him, because he wasn't. He wasn't my enemy anyhow. The only thing was I meant by that job is the U.S. government and not the people themselves. So I was just telling him, don't be afraid. You will be safe if you listen and obey my orders.

Colin Edwards: And he was just looking okay.

Leila Khaled: He was so good, really. Then I told him, proceed directly to Lod Airport. It's near Tel Aviv. Yes.

Colin Edwards: What was the idea of going there in Israel?

Leila Khaled: We wanted to challenge them. We can come over our land, and they can't do anything. And then I had the first message to the passengers, telling them to be calm, to fasten their seatbelts.

Colin Edwards: You read the message yourself?

Leila Khaled: Yes, through the phone.

Colin Edwards: That the captain normally uses?

Leila Khaled: Yes. And then I asked them to put their hands behind their head. Afterwards, I had a contact with Earth, with the first station I had, I think Athens, and I told them what's going on there. Afterwards, I forgot the passengers, and that was horrible, really. I didn't mean to forget them, but because I was so busy with reading the messages, so I... You had some prepared messages that you were fully prepared, how to deal with the different stations and touch with the airliner.

Colin Edwards: Yes.

Leila Khaled: Then I apologized for them and asked them to put their hands down. I asked the hostesses to give them their demands.

Colin Edwards: So they had their hands in the air for a little time, didn't they? Yes.

Leila Khaled: I didn't mean really to leave them for that, for about 10 to 15 minutes. I don't really remember the time now. But I apologized anyhow. And I asked them to release. But of course they didn't. They were so frightened.

Colin Edwards: What is your companion doing? Salim.

Leila Khaled: He was sitting beside me.

Colin Edwards: I see. This is behind the captain and the co-pilot.

Leila Khaled: Only behind the captain, the co-pilot was sitting on our right. By the way, I asked the engineer, how many fuel hours have you?

Colin Edwards: He lied to me and he said, I have two hours.

Leila Khaled: And I know exactly how many our flights are. I told him, you're lying. And really I was angry because I didn't mean to hurt them. I just wanted to ask him and to tell him at the same time that I know everything about the aircraft. But he lied. I told him, don't lie because I know that you have three and a half hours air flight. And then he didn't say anything. The co-pilot said, let's count it. I told him, don't count anything. I know everything about it. So, and... We went through, and then we reached the occupied land, over the occupied land. I asked the pilot to descend, and he descended. Oh, it was something fantastic.

Colin Edwards: When you mean occupied land, are you talking about Palestine? Yes.

Leila Khaled: There we reached Tel Aviv. And there I asked him to have a round. The circle. Yes. And the Israelis didn't want us to descend. to the level I wanted it to be. He shouted, and I didn't answer him. I asked him to say the name of the airplane. He didn't answer. He just was shouting and saying TWA. And I was telling him, this is the Popular Front 3 Arab Palestine. And that was the new name of the airplane. He was shouting and telling me that they would send planes. The pilot was shouting or the people on the ground? No, the people on the ground. And he was telling me that we'll send you our planes. I said, oh, send anything you want. What can you do? You can't do anything. And then I opened the phone for the passengers, and I told them, listen now, what were they saying? And I told the station down at the airport, to them, you are responsible for the lives of all those people on the aircraft. But we, as fighters, we want to die over our land, but these people... We don't want them to die because it's our problem and not their problem. Then the co-pilot asked me to speak. I told him, okay. He told them that you can't do anything. They have open grenades. Then we had three rounds over our land. And really, I wanted to go down there. But of course, I can't at that time, because it was an order just to have rounds and not to go down. Then we left after giving a message in Arabic that time, for our people there and for the prisoners, the Arab prisoners in the Israeli prisons. And we left by telling them, bye-bye, see you again. Because really, I want to go back again, either from the air or by sea or through the land. Then we marched to South Lebanon and yet we had the two airplanes, they were Mirage.

Colin Edwards: It's really mirages. Yeah, I saw that too.

Leila Khaled: Yeah, they were on our sides. And then we called too for Beirut airport and then we left to Syria, to Damascus. Afterwards, I have heard that the pilot thought that we're coming to Beirut. Nobody told us to come down, or I didn't ask Beirut here to come down. I didn't ask anybody to come down. He thought so. And he pointed to the... And he told me, we're going to run out of fuel. I told him, no, I know how much or where to go exactly. Then we reached Damascus, and there we landed. I asked the passengers to evacuate the aircraft because we don't want any horrible thing to happen at that moment. Maybe some of the people just come and... struggle to take back their grenades because he was so frightened. I asked them to go. Then they had five minutes to leave the aircraft because it would blow up. And there I was waiting at the door to see the people go. Everyone was going down. And then I went and fetched all the aircraft to see if there was anybody there.

Colin Edwards: You inspected the aircraft?

Leila Khaled: Yes. And then after everyone has gone, I and my friend,

Colin Edwards: throw the grenades into the cockpit area was it yes and we went down now it sounds as if you did this with great upon and certainly you did with great efficiency but weren't you nervous throughout it all no not at all I wasn't nervous Because I thought that it's something I had to do.

Leila Khaled: Why should I be nervous? And I thought to be nervous means that something horrible will occur all the time. And I wanted the crew to be calm. So I had to be calm myself. Nothing horrible happened.

Colin Edwards: None of the passengers panicked during the flight? No, not at all.

Leila Khaled: there was a good opportunity for us to face the passengers in the bus on the ground.

Colin Edwards: They sent a bus out to the aircraft?

Leila Khaled: Yes, not near the aircraft, because nobody was there after they had gone out. They just ran so fast. And there I sat with them and told them why we were doing that.

Colin Edwards: This was in the lounge of the airport?

Leila Khaled: Not in the lounge, in the bus.

Colin Edwards: Oh, in the bus.

Leila Khaled: The buses from the airport itself to the building of the airport.

Colin Edwards: Oh, I see. That's right, yes.

Leila Khaled: We were waiting near the gate of the building there because they were evacuating the airport itself. I don't know. The Syrians were evacuating the airport from people there. And we were waiting in the bus, so I had the opportunity to talk to you.

Colin Edwards: A bus had come out when the plane was landing? People were running in all directions, and then they got together again, and the bus came out for them?

Leila Khaled: Yes, and they picked them from different parts of the airport.

Colin Edwards: Did anyone say anything to you? You were all in the same bus, and how were they looking at you?

Leila Khaled: Not all the passengers. Part of the passengers and the hostesses, they were just looking, opened eyes only. And I was releasing them, but...

Colin Edwards: But you gave them your explanation?

Leila Khaled: Yes, just a brief explanation because I didn't have so much time. So I just asked them, to those who were going to Palestine or to Israel now, I asked them, why don't you go to Vietnam to have tours there? And then I answered, because you know that there's a war there. And we want to tell you something, that there's a war here too. There's a revolution here. We are the ones who are making it. And there's a little difference between the revolution in Vietnam and here in the Middle East. Maybe in Vietnam you may reach the Vietnam land, but here you may not reach it because we're going to cut off the roads to Israel. And at the same time, because the U.S. government is helping and supporting Israel, And I asked, I told them, do you think that peace comes by phantom and rockets? If it's so, we don't think so. Peace won't be here or can't be established by force. We have, this is our land and we want to go back. And everyone who helps our enemy is our enemy too. So we are having this job as what you have seen. But it's not the problem of, it's not your problem to be hijacked with the plane. But it's, it happened to be so. I offered them some cigarettes and some sweets we had. But I don't know what reaction. They had in mind after that.

Colin Edwards: They were speechless, were they?

Leila Khaled: Yes. They were just opening their eyes and listening, except for the Greek one. He was crying so badly. I want to tell you a little story about that. The Greek one who was coming from Chicago to Athens said, He had been in Chicago for 15 years. And I knew that from before I went to the aircraft in Rome airport. He was sitting beside me in the bus, which we were coming by to the airplane itself. And he told me that he didn't see his mother for 15 years. I was shocked, really, by hearing that. And I pretended I was reading because I had a book. I was reading it, but I pretended to read because I knew that he was not going to see his mother that time. Afterwards, I heard that he said... I was excited and upset when he was asking me. Really, I was excited because he didn't see his mother that time. And when we got to the bus in Damascus, he was crying all the time.

Colin Edwards: And I told him...

Leila Khaled: Don't cry. You're going back to your mother. But I know what was going in his mind at that moment. Because he was thinking to have a date with me in Athens.

Colin Edwards: It's something awful.

Leila Khaled: But really, I sympathize with him. I don't know. Because I know what... To be far from your land, it's something horrible, because I was far from my land a long, long time. And that thing, or that incident... It made me so unhappy to know that that young man was coming to back his home. And it happened to be that he was coming to my mission. But I don't have the choice to tell him that time that you're not going to see your mother at that time. But anyhow, he is back now, and he is safe, and that's the best thing.

Colin Edwards: Were the Syrians expecting you? They weren't, were they?

Leila Khaled: No, not at all. So they were surprised as anyone? Surprised, yes.

Colin Edwards: How did they receive you when you got there? Oh, it was a good receive.

Leila Khaled: After I have come down, they were surprised to see me anyhow.

Colin Edwards: When you got into town, you were met by the military and the police and everyone questioning you, I suppose?

Leila Khaled: No, there wasn't a real questioning. They just asked who I was and why did I do that thing. And then we were. We surrendered ourselves to them because it was an order. When we finish our mission, we have to go and tell them that we are under arrest.

Colin Edwards: Well, what happened to you then? Were you put in jail or were you put in a hotel?

Leila Khaled: I was put in a house, under house arrest.

Colin Edwards: And your friend?

Leila Khaled: Yes, I and my friend. We were there for 44 days.

Colin Edwards: You have representatives in your organization, don't you? Yeah. Were you able to meet them? Were they able to visit you?

Leila Khaled: No, only my family.

Colin Edwards: Oh, they were able to visit you?

Leila Khaled: Yes, my family visited me and my friend's family visited us too in the house we were in.

Colin Edwards: Now the other passengers, most of them were released very soon, weren't they?

Leila Khaled: Yes, the next day they were released and they went on an Italian aircraft, I think it was Alitalia, except for the Israelis, the two Israeli men only. But the Israeli women too, they were released the next day.

Colin Edwards: You didn't see the Israeli men who were detained then?

Leila Khaled: I didn't see them. In reality, I wanted to see them, but the Syrians didn't permit me to do so. Because it's good just to go and speak to those people and to show them that we are not barbarians, as Zionist propaganda say about us. But... Unfortunately, I couldn't do that.

Colin Edwards: You didn't know that these two individuals were on the plane? I mean, the plane wasn't selected because there were these two persons on it?

Leila Khaled: Not at all. It's because an American target.

Colin Edwards: And if there had been no Jewish people or no Israelis on it at all, it would still have been chosen. You knew nothing about the passenger list?

Leila Khaled: No, no, no, not at all. really I say that I'm eager to see those passengers and the crew again, and not by hijacking them again, no, but to tell them and to have them as my friends, our friends, because these will be in the future our friends if they understand our point of view.

Colin Edwards: Now, tell us a little about yourself so that we can understand what produced this dedication. Where were you from originally? You're still very young. You look like a young college student.

Leila Khaled: I want to tell you something. There's nothing to be told about myself before I joined this front. I think that I had lost every meaning of life when I was driven out of my country. You're from Palestine originally. Yes, from Palestine. I was born in Haifa.

Colin Edwards: Haifa was once an Arab city. Yes, it was. And you left Palestine after the June war, 1967 war, before?

Leila Khaled: No, I left Palestine after 1948. Yes.

Colin Edwards: Of course, that's right. That's the time that people fled from Haifa. And you came to Lebanon then?

Leila Khaled: Yes. We were driven to Lebanon. I can't say I fled. I was driven out with my family.

Colin Edwards: Could you tell us about that? Because we don't have much of the detail of this incident.

Leila Khaled: I don't remember much about that year because I was so young. But my mother told me about it. We were obliged to go out under the pressure of weapons, Israeli weapons.

Colin Edwards: Now, in America, the understanding is among a lot of people that the Arabs left on their own accord at the urging of broadcasts from Arab countries and by the Grand Mufti and so forth, that there was no pressure to force them to leave.

Leila Khaled: Oh, it was horrible to think so. But I think we were obliged to go out of our homes that year. And the same thing happened on the 5th of June. We just had to... carry our bags or our clothes only and to just run away with all those people coming out. And we thought that it was just for days to go back, and we were tricked by that. And then we just settled down here.

Colin Edwards: So you grew up here in Lebanon. Was this in a refugee camp or did your parents have a home here?

Leila Khaled: No, I didn't go to a refugee camp. I just came with my family and lived in a house in Tyre.

Colin Edwards: Ironically, you attended American University in Beirut.

Leila Khaled: Yes, for one year only.

Colin Edwards: And after one year, then you became involved and committed to the Popular Front movement, did you?

Leila Khaled: No, I was... I left AUB because financially I can't afford it. It's too expensive for me to afford for the AUB. And afterwards, in 1963, I went to Kuwait to teach there and stayed there for six years teaching to help my family, of course. And after that, after the 5th of June, I think I was born again. I joined the Popular Front. And I have given up everything. I have given up my family because I want to hold arms. So I went for training.

Colin Edwards: This was very rigorous training, was it? Combat training and toughening up and weapons and...

Leila Khaled: Weapons and political training, too. In our camps, we don't have only weapon training. We have only political education, too, besides weapon training.

Colin Edwards: Now, describe the Popular Front to us and how you became attracted to it as the movement which you wanted to become involved with because there are several resistance movements among the Palestinians.

Leila Khaled: Yes. Before saying something about the Popular Front, I want to tell you that the political party, Khomein Arab, The National Arab Party, I think it's the literal translation of it. I was involved in this political party.

Colin Edwards: While you were teaching? Before you joined, yes.

Leila Khaled: Yes. And the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine is now the military part of this party. I just – I can say that because the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine says or believes that not only weapons are the way to liberate our country, we have – We believe that thoughts or the socialist thoughts, scientific socialist theory exactly, is the way for the liberation of Palestine. Because we think that it's not only something general to imagine or... or the war itself, or the liberation war. We say, or we believe, that the popular liberation war is the only way to Palestine. So I think it's something... ideal for me to have the honor to join such a party who holds thoughts and works on that line. The Popular Front is a All the Marxist-Leninist theory, which I believe that it's a revolutionary theory by which we can go on liberating our country the way all the world can understand very well. if we know how to work on it and to translate it by working about it.

Colin Edwards: Now, there are many branches of socialism and many parties that call themselves Marxist and some call themselves Marxist-Leninist. Does your movement identify with the party in Russia or in China or does it have its own independent approach to Marxist-Leninism?

Leila Khaled: We have our own thinking about this because we don't think that just importing a theory is the way to or how to liberate the country. No, we just have this theory as a revolutionary theory that we can imply on our country. in our cause, so we can learn from this theory how to work on the way we want to liberate our country. And it's not because it has happened in Russia or China or in Cuba or... We just learn from these countries things that we can get benefit from it in our world. But it's not just to import it. only and put it down here and say we want to liberate our country as what happened in Russia or what happened in China. Not at all.

Colin Edwards: You've drawn from various Marxist and Leninist movements what you consider that is applicable and beneficial for your liberation and for the kind of society you want to build in Palestine.

Leila Khaled: Yes.

Colin Edwards: but you see some things, for instance, in the Cuban experience that are good examples, but you're not dogmatically saying that you're following the pattern of China or Cuba or anything. You're just evolving your own ideas.

Leila Khaled: Yes, yes. We develop all the... the thoughts that we have in mind. And we get from the, I mean, what happened in Cuba, we don't just copy revolutions from here or from there. We just take what's good for us and we can go on doing it. That's all.

Colin Edwards: And you have, shall we say, comradely relations with other movements like your own in Cuba and so forth?

Leila Khaled: Up till now, I think... We have just a little.

Colin Edwards: You've been too busy with your own liberation.

Leila Khaled: Yes. But after all, we think that our movement or our war here, our revolution, is a part of the world revolution, the third world revolution, I mean. And not it's a part only, no. It's a revolution by itself, cut off all that, all the isolated from the liberation movements in the world. We are a part of it. So we are going to build bridges with other movements in the world.

Colin Edwards: Can you make clear for me what the divisions are that seem to exist in the Popular Front? I try to understand the Popular Front, and there seem to be three or four or five different sections. Are these having different political approaches or just different military commands?

Leila Khaled: There are here three popular fronts in real. The one I'm in and the one which has split out this year. The one you're in is called the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine. Right.

Colin Edwards: And that's headed by Mr. George Habash? Is that the one?

Leila Khaled: He's one of our leaders and not the only one. I see. And the Democratic Popular Front and another popular front, which is the military part, which was with us. And they are working only military work. The difference is that we think that not only military work can liberate, or it's not the way to our country, but no. I think it's we have the political part and the military part, and they have to go parallel, working on both sides. We can't work on one side leaving the other. So this is the difference of what we think and others who think.

Colin Edwards: Is there one section that is likely PLP in America considered a Maoist faction in the popular front in these groups or is there none?

Leila Khaled: I don't think we can say Maoist section. I think it's socialist section. In general, we can say this.

Colin Edwards: Now, you do work in coordination with other groups, Palestine-resistant groups, although you're not part yet, I understand, of the PLO-FATA combination. You still work in coordination with them when you're operating in the same areas. You have commanders, for instance, in the occupied areas.

Leila Khaled: Yes, we have some operations done with other groups in the occupied land. But we have, as fighters, there are no differences among them.

Colin Edwards: You don't let your political differences...

Leila Khaled: Yeah, but on the side of leadership, there are political differences, and here lies the big difference.

Colin Edwards: Now, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine has entered an area of activity that the Fatah, for instance, hasn't, and that is you operate internationally as well as having commanders inside the occupied areas. Why and when was that decision taken? You've explained, you know, to interrupt Israeli travel. But could you explain how that developed?

Leila Khaled: Yes. When we... After the 5th of June, we had our military groups to work in the occupied land. But after a meeting for... the whole leaders of our Popular Front, they had studies about the enemy. And so we had to state the camp of the enemy and the camp of the French. And from this point of view, I can say that they have seen The whole thing about our revolution, we state that not only Israel is our enemy. We think that Israel, Zionism, the imperialistic power by the USA leadership, and the reactionary regimes in the Arab countries. And this is not known or is not admitted by the other resistance groups. And when we say that all the camp of enemies, then we have to work on how to hit these enemies. So we had this strategic line to... hit hard on the imperialistic interests, either outside our country, in the Arab world, or wherever our enemy is, we want to fight there.

Colin Edwards: You're taking the fight to his home ground, in other words.

Leila Khaled: Yes, yeah, I'm this way.

Colin Edwards: For instance, in Britain they've had some incidents at the stores that are supporting Zionism. You don't attack a store just because it's Jewish.

Leila Khaled: No, no, no. We don't mean to hit the Jews as Jews, no. We are not against the people. We are against only the Zionists themselves because they are supporting Israel with everything, with people and with financial aid, with weapons, with everything. So we want to hit where is there a Zionist, we want to fight there. So we are widening the area of our revolution because we see it this way and not how the enemy sees it.

Colin Edwards: Now, you are an intellectual, a young intellectual. Are most of the young people involved in your movement or people involved in your movement, and I presume that most of them are relatively young people, are they all from this group of educated people

Leila Khaled: No, not educated people. We think that the material of our revolution are the peasants and the workers and educated revolutionary people. So when we have a picture of our revolution, we say that these are the material of the revolution. And from this point of view, we can go on our popular liberation revolution.

Colin Edwards: How big a part do girls play in the People's Front operations? I hear about them in the Zurich affair and now in this hijacking. You were the leader of the mission there, weren't you? Yeah.

Leila Khaled: We think that the Zionist propaganda, or in reality the Western propaganda, says that Arab women have nothing to do except to cook, to marry, to have children, and that's all. This is her job, but it's different. We have, the Arab women can do whatever an Arab man do. And we have many examples, especially in the occupied land. There are many girls who are imprisoned now, and one of those girls, one called Lutfi Hamdan, she is now in the Sarafan prison, which is the most horrible prison in Israel, I think. And now she is half paralyzed as a result of torturing. And we have many, many girls in the prison who had... Some of them had gone for operations and some are just... in prison because the Israelis had suspected them, and they are now in prison, and they are tortured. We have – we had a girl called Shadia Bouazali, whom I take in her name as a – as my title in the mission. She is one of our martyrs. She died in prison? Not in prison. The Israelis killed her.

Colin Edwards: In battle?

Leila Khaled: In Nablus. She was a very fine girl and a very courageous girl. She had gone for some operations, but she died. She was killed in there.

Colin Edwards: So when you go on operations inside Israel, inside Palestine, occupied Palestine, you risk not only death but the possibility of prison and torture.

Leila Khaled: Oh, yes, of course. I think... Now I can say that we have many girls inside, and I'm preparing to go inside, but I don't know if I'm going to go on doing my operations secretly because, of course, I can't. Now I'm known. So I have to do it secretly. And of course I may face death or imprisonment. It's the same for me. I'm not afraid to say that this is my end anyhow. Either death or to be in jail. But this is the revolution. Anyone who is working such a such a job, he has to expect all these things, either death or imprisonment. There's no difference between them, except for that death is better anyhow than to be imprisoned in an Israeli camp or in an Israeli jail.

Colin Edwards: As an Arab socialist, did you find it strange that a large number of people on the left in America supported Israel?

Leila Khaled: that those young people if they can see the facts from all sides or they can see the facts scientifically I think that we can have them as our friends and they can see our cause from the point of view we are seeing it because They are seeing now our problem from the Zionist point of view, and they are not seeing anything about the Arab point of view. And to be scientific... person you have to look about any problem from both sides or from all the sides that deals with that problem so that you can see the fact as it is not as what I wanted it or anyone else wants to see it in reality I think that if they can have our points of view for what we think about Palestine and our revolution against Israeli occupiers, I say. They can see the difference between us and the Israelis themselves who had occupied our land and they drove us out of our country. The Zionist propaganda says that in Israel there is a democratic socialist government there. But I want to just to say or to ask a question. Where is this democracy and where is that socialism? If you want to do it over a usurped land and if you drive out the people of that land and you want to be a socialist there, I don't think that it is something scientific. Not at all. To be a socialist in another one's home, it's not socialism. And it's not democratic anyhow. I don't know anyone has this in mind, especially here. I don't know if I'm right or wrong that anyone who does something against Israel is threatened in U.S.A. And that's – I think that's true, and I'm not wrong by telling this. So what do you think now, you? What do you think about my statement? Do you secure my life if I go there? I'm sure that I would be, before I reach U.S. or the time I land there, I think that I will lose my life. Do you think that you can secure me there?

Colin Edwards: Well, I think that at least you would be arrested there, I'm afraid. Or you still actually, if you went into some countries, you might be arrested by the police. So you can't, for instance, travel to Europe, I suppose. Interpol or somebody would arrest you on behalf of the Americans or the Israelis.

Leila Khaled: The CIA is working very hard to have my life.

Colin Edwards: Do you have any indications of any knowledge of CIA operations around in the Arab world?

Leila Khaled: Yeah, we have many examples about that. And I don't think that the CIA would shut eyes on me. I don't think so.

Colin Edwards: They haven't tried to assassinate you yet?

Leila Khaled: No, up till now, no. And I hope it would be so all the time.

Colin Edwards: You're not afraid of being kidnapped by the Israelis? You know, they have managed to kidnap people in different countries.

Leila Khaled: I expect that, but I have to be aware of it. And what shall I do?

Colin Edwards: Now, a growing number of people in America, including many young people, although not a majority on the left, are now coming around to a position of support for the Palestine cause. Also, the people in the Black Panther Party in America, the black revolutionaries, if you like, they have come out in support of the Popular Front and, in fact, of the Palestine resistance movement. If you were now talking to the black revolutionary in America, the Black Panther Party, what would you say to them?

Leila Khaled: I'm with those people anyhow because they are defending their rights as human beings and the worst thing you can face or anyone can face is when you are treated like a human being and I'm with them for their revolution against what's called a democratic government in the U.S. It's not at all a democratic government at the time where a human being is treated as an animal or less than that. So those people, I hope they can have their rights and They can't have their rights except by force because this is the motto of this century and centuries coming because force is the only way how to get your rights.

Colin Edwards: Thank you, Laila Khaled, for telling us of your exploit in taking that TWA plane with your colleague Salim Hissawi to Damascus and something about your political convictions.