George Habash - Interviews ('73-'84)

Speaker 1: As you can see, that's right. We actually started this, and then we stopped it. We hate ourselves, we are honest with ourselves, we are honest with people, and we are honest with people all over the world.

Speaker 2: But Israel was not honest. Israel was lying all the time, and told the world to take help against us. And wait what happens: we stopped the rockets, but Israel was lying all the time, and the rockets are being used now. Are there no cases where you have taken them through the rockets? In the near future? No, when we will all try our best in the world, of course we feel that war is war and we can... We won't do anything that helps our concept in the war, but for now we cannot see our own event. We want all people in the world to understand us and be with us to confirm our concept. You see, the PFLP is the PFLP. When it does something from the PFLP, it will issue that. The PFLP actually has relations with the first Palestinian organizations, Fatah. And we communicate together in what is called the P.L.O. And we don't communicate with them, but also to be truly with you, we can only understand them because we know Muslims. They have been living for several years, and that's why we can at least know why they do that? George, there were many humanitarian officials in the Palestinian guerrilla war. What do you say to them? I say first that there are humanitarian officials for every serious war. And we are very happy for the civilians, but we cannot ask you to stop the fighting. We can ask you to try our best to prevent any mistake that will happen to the civilians. Israel looks very good and very sustainable, and the Arab world looks unfree, and the outside world...

Speaker 1: What do you hope will be a surprise or a surprise for the national power? What do you hope will be a surprise or a surprise for the national power? What do you hope will be a surprise or a surprise for the national power? What do you hope will be a surprise or a surprise for the national power?

Speaker 2: Why? Because this relates to our story and to our story. You know what our story is. We were living in Palestine. And the Zionist group expelled Palestine. I think you were in our place. What can you do? So there will be no end. There is no end to this difficulty happening in this part of the world unless the people of the countries reach a correct solution to their meeting. We do not burn Jews. We want all Muslims in the world, if possible, to understand us, including all Muslims in Israel. We are not trying to throw Muslims into the water as the Zionist movement said. But we need to be honest, we need to hand over the Israeli government as you said. We are against the Zionists. And we are against the Israeli government as it is now. Why? Because it is the experience of Zionism. It is a racist government. It is a direct and straightforward system in its purposes. We and the Jewish Muslim party in Palestine are fighting this government. We must fight together and continue fighting together until we reach very surprising goals. That is the Palestinian democratic unity. Which will include all Arabs and the essence in one life as a Palestinian group in a different state as a Palestinian group. Well, Israel is interested in helping the heat, it is clear that Israel started this last war against us. I cannot imagine how the National Heat government can stop its killing of the prophets who are using their city. It seems that the Al-Fatah forces are cooperating with the National Heat forces.

Speaker 1: Will the Palestinians use the same functions? Or can you stop situations that could open them?

Speaker 2: For the first question, all Palestinian organizations have the exact same document completely. For the second question, we will not start any killing against US forces. Unless they do what they have to do. I mean, calling on Israeli forces to withdraw from American Lebanon. Are you sure the Israelis will leave completely? No.

Speaker 1: Israel has taught us very well that it never returns. Except by force, of course. For the Israelis who are using many strange areas in the second city, how will the Palestinian strategy change? How will that be? Well, new area, new fighter.

Speaker 2: And of course, for some time now, we have been focusing on our fighters in Palestine. And I think that is clear. At the moment? No. At the moment, we should only be concerned with the American people, and we are against any open relations with the United States of America because we know that what we are dealing with here is American imperialism, not just Israel. All the opposition we deal with in Lebanon and before that in other countries, we know that. Israel is able to train extensively because of the American support. We want to be very, very, very, and in the PFLP we always emphasize that our real friends are not just Israel and Zionism, but the United States that supports Israel because Israel plays with American support. Dr. Hamsh, can you tell me how you really think negotiations within the PLO are now? Of course, I must claim that it is really, really. But apart from that, we are still giving the slogan for a united PLO. There will be many problems, quick problems, but we must overcome them. There is no other way but to overcome them. Because it is very dangerous because people will starve while fighting against the Zionists and against Israel. How much impact do you think the PNC and Arafat's movement had on the PLO? It was very, very simple because it had a very legal level. So this means that Arafat decides, or rather, he decides based on his close relationship with the Camp David system and the Reagan system in Jordan. And as you know, Camp David and the Reagan system don't succeed in what people do. I really want it, and that's why it's also an important societal theory. As you know, the PLO is more than just a group that contains it. In societal theory, all people, all societies... All national figures, according to what's happening in Amman, you can't call it the PNC. It's Arafat's resistance more than the resistance of all the parts that follow the Palestinian people, unfortunately. We can say that it's truly illegal from the perspective of the internal governments of the PNC. Do you really believe that Arafat places himself in the American sphere as you suggest? Because that wouldn't make him wrong in your opinion.

Speaker 3: Largely, yes. Indirectly.

Speaker 2: And not directly, because America is still implementing it. He places himself on the American path through Hussein al-Husseini and through Hassan Mubarak. This is true for the people, and this is one of the main reasons for what's happening in the PLO. What is the end you see for Arafat and through the PLO if he walks the American path? If he continues this way, I think the Palestinian people will not accept Arafat in any way unless he continues to be the chairman of the PLO. And I think we will have a PLO group

Speaker 3: Without Arafat and without his Ramadan. Don't you think the Palestinians want peace? Peace, of course, but any peace? Israeli peace? I don't think the Palestinians are ready to cooperate for another year to have...

Speaker 2: Their rights, and we, we, we... And the United States' highnesses, we have the right to use this national assistance to implement our national goals. You are wrong if you think we are fighting terrorism. That is an American mistake of the American administration.

Speaker 3: Do the reports inside the PLO make use of assistance from some people who fight Arafat? Do the reports inside the PLO make some people who fight the assistance from some people who fight the assistance from some people who fight the assistance from some people?

Speaker 2: And we are trying to increase our efforts to assist against Israeli assistance in the West Bank and Israeli assistance in Gaza, against Israel in general. But if you mean weakness against Palestinian groups, no, we are against that, and we want to give him a doctorate.

Speaker 3: Do you ever see peace with Israel? Because it's clear that there are some united communities today who are doing that. We see in the very distant future peace in Palestine, where all weapons, the Jews...

Speaker 2: Will live in peace with the Arabs. It's very difficult to have peace with the Zionists, because the Zionists, as they have proven on the ground here, cannot live with us. Just as the European people were not able to live with fascism and Nazism. It's very difficult. We have seen that we cannot live with Zionism. Zionism is exactly fascism. But do you ever see in your heart, do you ever see protection with Israel? I don't know about that. Whatever you think, could it be possible? Israel is a Zionist group. Until now, until now, it is a Zionist group. We are ready for peace if we can get rid of Zionism, of the Zionist ideology. How do you explain that?

Speaker 3: Arafat's thinking today? I mean, you know him very well. We've been together for several years. كيف تشرح ما يفعله وكيف تعتقد أنه يسير؟ عرفات يولي أهمية كبيرة للتكتيكات. When we were outside Beirut, Arafat thought that the entire region...

Speaker 2: It slipped out of the hands of the United States, and that's why it has to handle this formula itself—it doesn't give much importance to the Muslim public, to the Muslim public who want to know. We are taking this risk because of Chief Irfan the Great and through his connections with Fahd and all the Arab opposition.

Speaker 3: A Palestinian group—do you think he was killed? Do you think he killed Palestinians in any way? Let's not talk about the explosive; let's talk about...

Speaker 2: The social path he is following right now is very wrong and extremely dangerous. It will not serve our national goals. I am afraid that in four or five years, Arafat will find that he has lost faith. From the Palestinian group without getting anything from its groups, if I can use the correct word "groups" with Al-Hussein Al-Husseini and Al-Hasani Al-Mubarak. Another question, and a very friendly one: regarding Dr. Habash, do you have any question about Russia's past weaknesses?

Speaker 3: You said you're planning to remove aid against Israel now. Does that mean you think you'll go back to the early days of the 1970s, where basic aid and Russian laws—what we also call terrorism—for the best chance, might be used again as weapons? Do you ever see that? Please, please, make it clear that there is—

Speaker 2: There's a big difference between what you call terrorism and what we call an attempt to help achieve our national attacks. Let me say I don't like your comparison between helping and terrorism if you mean helping. We must increase it. We are about to increase it. History is something else. But do you see a repeat of confrontations against Israel's capabilities? You say you're moving past wanting more confrontations.

Speaker 3: هل سنعود إلى أيام المواجهات ضد مهارات إسرائيل؟

Speaker 2: This is our uncle, to return and unleash Israel's skills in the Central Bank, in Gaza, in Palestine. We believe it's truly ours. The United States gives Muslim people a bad reputation. The ruler has full authority over the judges in every position. But the main ruler—what do you think he will achieve? You said this is the last question, so I will answer it as the final one. What is the question now? What do you think it will achieve? What do you think it will achieve? Resistance against Israel? It will achieve a lot because in the very long future, Israelis will realize that without giving Palestinians their rights, there will be no peace. I don't think the Jews in Palestine can keep hiding their children day after day like what's happening now in the city of Lebanon.