Fidel Castro Mixtape

Speaker 1: You know, the sinister propagandists all through our country and through the world always pictured your army not as a wonderful group of revolutionary youngsters who wanted to make corrections. They said your army was communist and that you were communist. But I've seen your army. They wear scapulars. They wear medals around their neck. They carry Bibles.

Fidel Castro: Yes.

Speaker 1: Cuba, I know, is mostly Catholic, and you too, aren't you Catholic?

Fidel Castro: Yes, yes, I was— I studied in Catholic school during more than 12 years. I mean, when I was born, by the time I was in Catholic school, yes, that was my education.

Speaker 1: All right, now in school I understand you were a very fine student, a very fine athlete. Were you a baseball pitcher?

Fidel Castro: Yes, baseball pitcher, basketball, track, field, football, and every, every, everything, every sport.

Speaker 1: Well, undoubtedly, all of that exercise you did in school prepared you for this role now.

Fidel Castro: Yes, it helped me very much now in this work, because I find— found myself in good condition for resisting the mountains, the long walking.

Speaker 1: I'd like to ask you a couple of questions, Fidel. How many Cubans do you believe were tortured and killed by Batista's secret police?

Fidel Castro: Well, it is almost impossible to answer how many people were tortured. Thousands, thousands. I suppose that 20,000 people were tortured. Tortured and killed, well, many thousands too were killed by Batista's policemen. It was a horrible dictatorship. It is almost unbelievable.

Speaker 1: Now it's exactly 10 minutes after 2:00 a.m. here in Cuba. You're going to be up at around 5:00, but I'll ask you 2 more questions and then we'll close it up.

Fidel Castro: Okay, never mind, never mind.

Speaker 1: What I'd like to ask you is this, Fidel. In Latin American countries, over and over again, dictators have come along, they've wrecked the country, they've stolen the money, millions and millions of dollars, tortured and killed people. How do you propose to end that here in Cuba?

Fidel Castro: Very easy. Not permitting that any dictatorship come again to rule our country. You can be sure that Batista This will be the last dictator of Cuba, because now, now they are going to improve our democratic institutions so that no one can break our government, use the force to break our constitution. And our laws. We are going to begin a large period of constitutional and legal government. That is our purpose.

Speaker 1: The people of the United States, they have great admiration for you and your men, because you are in the real American tradition of a George Washington, of many men who started off with a small body Fought against a great nation and won. What do you feel about the United States?

Fidel Castro: My feeling to the people of the United States is a feeling of sympathy. I sympathize with the people of the United States today because I see they are a very work— worker people.

Speaker 1: Work hard.

Fidel Castro: They have, they have found that big nation working very much. That is right. It's a nation that belongs to the people of everywhere. The United States is one race of people that came from every part of the world.

Speaker 1: That is right.

Fidel Castro: That is why I think the United States is a nation that belongs to the world, to those who were persecuted, to those who could not live in their own country, came to the United States, joined the United States, and made it a big nation. Right.

Speaker 1: We want you to like us, and we like you, you and Cuba. Fidel, it's been a very great honor to meet you.

Fidel Castro: Okay, okay. I'm very glad and very happy for the honor of your interview. I am only sorry because I am so tired.

Speaker 1: Well, you're going to get better.

Fidel Castro: And also, I suppose that I am not very much clear this night and that my English is not good. You know why? I didn't know, never. I never thought that I was going to be expected to speak to many thousands of United States Americans, English-speaking. English-speaking. So now I promise to the public opinion of the United States, to my hearers, to improve my English for next time.

Speaker 1: Here's a message for you. Thank you very, very much, and I want to express my appreciation to Jules Dubois here of the Chicago Tribune, who made this whole thing possible, as my contact man. Thank you very much, Jules.

Fidel Castro: That'll do it, huh?

Speaker 1: I'd also like to express my appreciation to Andy Laszlo, our cameraman, and His crew went down there and got that under the most difficult conditions, because this was a real, a real war scene when we walked in on it. You know, this is a fine young man, a very smart young man. With the help of God and our prayers, and with the help of the American government, he will come up with the sort of democracy down there that America should have.

Speaker 5: Here is reporter Lisa Howard.

Lisa Howard: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We thought you might want to hear some of the events surrounding my interview with Fidel Castro. We filmed the interview on April 24th in a suite at the Hotel Riviera in Havana. The Prime Minister's interpreter asked to see my questions in advance, but I explained that this was not customary in our country. Fidel Castro made no request to see my questions prior to the interview. I did type the major questions and presented them to the interpreter 2 minutes before the interview for reference purposes. During the interview, you will notice that Prime Minister Castro refers to this typed list as he follows my questions. The voice of the Cuban interpreter, Dr. René Vallejo, was inaudible at times, so we've replaced him with an American interpreter. But Fidel Castro's answers have not been altered or edited in any manner. The interview was filmed, but The sound and film quality are not as good as we would wish, but technically we were not filming under ideal conditions. As for the content, that you may judge for yourself. And now, an interview with Fidel Castro. Mr. Castro, were the missiles placed in Cuba because Khrushchev wanted them here? Or because you asked for them. In other words, in this situation, where did the initiative lie?

Fidel Castro: Dile que aunque yo considero que no es el momento este de hacer un recuento pormenorizado.

Speaker 8: Tell her that I do not feel that this is the right moment to hold a detailed discussion on those historic events. However, she must also understand that at the same time I'm extremely interested that all those details should become known. But tell her the following. After a few days, the Soviet and the Cuban governments both realized that we had to take certain measures because of the imminence of an invasion of the country that we felt had been planned and was going to be carried out. These measures had to come from the idea of persuading the aggressors that an invasion of Cuba would inevitably lead to a Third World War. It was on the strength of that conviction that we took the de facto measures we took. We did not waste time with mere words. We merely had to stop the possibility of aggression. From that point of view, you can say that it was simultaneous action on the part of both governments.

Lisa Howard: Dr. Castro, looking back on the October crisis with hindsight, do you think it was wise to have permitted the missiles to be placed on Cuban soil in the first place?

Fidel Castro: Directo mirando atrás, yo entendí, señores estudiantes, que mirando atrás.

Speaker 8: Tell her that looking backwards and placing ourselves in the same circumstances as those of the time, I still feel that it was correct. I had already told you earlier That we began with the need to take certain measures in order to force the United States to put aside their ideas of invading Cuba. The fact that an aggression was being prepared— The fact that aggression was being prepared was made obvious later and was proved by no less a person than the chairman of the Counterrevolutionary Council himself. Surely that is the best proof that anyone could expect or offer.

Lisa Howard: What is the purpose of the Soviet troops that now remain on Cuban soil? Do you, do you really feel that this large a military presence is necessary for the defense of the island?

Speaker 8: Димитри Дुजамонтров Tell her that if they call troops, the technicians that are still in Cuba at this moment, that's an entirely different thing. But you must explain to her that these experts and these technicians are here in our interest, in the interest of Cuba. We are having both our personnel. And our armed forces trained by these technicians. I consider that— I consider, and you must make her understand this, that in the present circumstances, and until we are truly and sincerely assured of a policy of peace towards us, we will have need of those technicians to train our personnel, Are you telling me, Dr.

Lisa Howard: Castro, that there are no Soviet troops and armaments on Cuban soil?

Fidel Castro: You call Soviet troops, we call technicals. You understand? And really, they are training our troops. Is clear? Yes. Really, they are training our troops. They are instructors.

Lisa Howard: They are Soviet technicals.

Fidel Castro: I think that if we are attacked, those technicals are going to fight with us against any aggression.

Lisa Howard: No member of the Communist bloc can ignore the ever-widening ideological schism between Red China and the Soviet Union. And Soviet Russia, with Mao Zedong's emphasis on war as a useful instrument of national policy and Mr. Khrushchev's conviction that the world must develop along lines of peaceful coexistence. As between these two schools of thought, where do you stand, sir?

Fidel Castro: Es cierto que hay algunos, alguna diferencia.

Speaker 8: Yes, it is true. There are certain differences between the points of view of the leaders of the Soviet Union and the leaders of the People's Republic of China. But I do not believe that those differences of view are in any way different From those that exist between, for example, de Gaulle or Kennedy. I believe that there is no absolute or insoluble contradiction between the views expressed by the Soviet Union and the views expressed by the People's Republic of China. And I do not believe for one minute, nor could I accept or be convinced, that the policies of China are intended to set up war as part of a national policy. Since that is what I believe, then obviously our position must be to struggle in order to strengthen and improve the relations between these 2 great countries of the socialist camp. That is our position.

Lisa Howard: It has often been reported that your alliance with the communists inside Cuba is a precarious one. And in January of 1962, you denounced the Cuban communists for shunting aside the Fidelistas and taking all the top posts For themselves. What is the situation now today in Cuba between the Fidelistas and the old-line Communists?

Speaker 8: Tell her that as the revolution advances, the unity of all the revolutionaries becomes greater and stronger every day. The criticisms that we leveled at first against the sectarian positions that existed in the country were intended merely to overcome and to correct certain mistakes that at that time divided us. Once we've overcome those mistakes, then the unity among all the revolutionaries in Cuba today is greater than it ever was before.

Fidel Castro: I have heard that in the United States they speak many times about division between old and young communists. I can tell you that it is only a theory.

Speaker 8: A theory?

Fidel Castro: A theory. That is not true. If somebody in the United States is thinking to solve our problem based in that division, It's mistake. Do you understand? And do you think that you are— the people of United States understand my English?

Lisa Howard: I think they will. Dr. Castro, in an interview in Le Monde, you criticized the leaders in the Soviet satellite countries for their total subservience to Moscow. Are you able to be any more independent when you are almost totally dependent on Moscow For your economic survival.

Speaker 8: Tell her that I don't know whether she's aware of the fact that when those interviews were published in the French newspaper Le Monde, I made a clarification right away. I stated that I had given no interview to any reporter of that newspaper. We did hold an informal conversation at the home of the director of the newspaper Revolución, and during that conversation we talked of many subjects, but there were no translators present while we were talking, and since the reporter did not know Spanish very well—

Lisa Howard: I didn't pray.

Speaker 8: Many of the subjects that we did refer to in our conversation were misunderstood by the reporter, and he then published them in a completely different way from the way in which we had discussed them at the home of the director of the newspaper. It was that misunderstanding on his part that misled the readers.

Lisa Howard: Rephrase my question.

Fidel Castro: Y en realidad yo retrasé la. And really, I will.

Lisa Howard: Let me just ask this then. Do you feel? I say I will rephrase my question and ask you: Do you feel that Cuba has any chance of being independent of Moscow when you are almost totally dependent on Moscow for your economic survival?

Speaker 8: Dile que nosotros, la Unión Soviética nunca nos puso Tell her that as far as we are concerned, the Soviet Union never attached any political conditions whatsoever to the economic assistance she offers us. It is true we received and we are still receiving. Assistance. But this is assistance that is basically economic, and it comes primarily from the Soviet Union, and we are extremely grateful for the help. But I repeat, that assistance has never been sent to us with any conditions. You can tell her, too, that in the United States they use certain slogans, certain clichés, certain ideas that they accept almost as though they were axioms or truisms. But I believe that what is thought in the United States and the way things are analyzed there will finally lead them to understand exactly how and why Cuba is acting as she is. We are merely and completely exercising our right to self-determination.

Lisa Howard: Cuba now finds itself isolated in the hemisphere, no longer on speaking terms with most Latin American countries, the victim of an economic blockade, and with almost all of your support coming from ports 6,000 and 7,000 miles away, can you, Dr. Castro, possibly continue to exist as a viable economy in this isolated atmosphere?

Speaker 8: Yes, it is true. It is entirely true. We are the victims of a great economic blockade. We are the victims of a general program of isolation on the part of a powerful nation.

Fidel Castro: Ahora bien, sin embargo, aunque con algunas dificultades, nosotros hemos podido ir.

Speaker 8: But anyway, despite all this. We have met the difficulties. We have overcome many of these obstacles. And despite all this, again, we are sure that we will manage to get ahead.

Lisa Howard: Dr. Castro, since you assumed power, nearly 300,000 people have fled the island, and the recent immigrants have been doctors, lawyers, teachers, As well as workers. How do you account for this exodus and the exodus that is still continuing?

Speaker 8: Tell her that I think her figures are, well, shall we say exaggerated. Not that many have left the island, nor is it true that they were all rich or all poor. The majority of the Cubans That have left the island were of the higher and middle classes. They were people who in the past occupied high posts. But furthermore, remember that from Cuba to the United States there has always been a very great current of emigration. However, before the revolution there was a limit set to the number of Cubans that could enter your country. After the revolution, there was no limit, there was no quota to the Cuban emigration to the States. I am convinced that if the doors of all the other Latin American republics were to be allowed to open for completely free emigration to the United States of America, more people would leave those countries Than have so far left Cuba for the United States. I'll go further. I'll give you an example. Take Puerto Rico, for instance. The United States constantly argues and says that in Puerto Rico they enjoy a very high standard of living, that there is set up a very sound social and political system, and yet we know that more than 1 million Puerto Ricans have fled from their island to the United States of America. Now, if we're going to judge the system or the state of a country on the strength of the number of persons that leave or escape from that country to go somewhere else, then we must realize that Puerto Rico is the worst country of all.

Lisa Howard: But perhaps I should have phrased it differently. Many of the most recent immigrants And I saw many of them in Miami, were not people of money, and many of them had originally been with the revolution.

Fidel Castro: Dice que ella vio en Miami alguna gente, por ejemplo, que era que al principio había estado con la revolución y que algunos no eran gente de dinero.

Lisa Howard: How do you explain that emigration?

Fidel Castro: Bueno, porque efectivamente hay alguna gente que va.

Speaker 8: Well, because there are some people who desire to emigrate to the United States in search of a better standard of living, perhaps. And also, there are cases of persons who, because of disagreements with the revolution, decided to leave the island to go to foreign countries.

Fidel Castro: Yes.

Speaker 8: But in many occasions— But in many cases, that argument is a mere pretext. The political pretext is merely added. The true reason underlying their emigration is economic. Now, I can assure you that those who left the island before the revolution were purely the poorer classes.

Fidel Castro: Prior to the revolution.

Speaker 8: That was prior to the revolution. The emigration that followed the revolution, on the whole, is the emigration of the higher classes. When the revolution occurred in the United States of America, for example, don't forget there were many Americans who left your country and who went to Canada. They were people who didn't like the American way of life. They were people who didn't agree with the independence of the United States.

Lisa Howard: Dr. Castro, the United States and other nations of the OAS are deeply concerned about the exporting of your revolution to other nations in the hemisphere, the training of subversive agents. The sending of subversive material throughout the hemisphere. And in fact, the San José meeting pledged to stop the flow of men, funds, arms, and propaganda to other nations of the hemisphere from Cuba. Why do you feel at this early and very difficult stage of your own development that it's necessary to export your revolution to others? other nations throughout Latin America.

Speaker 8: Tell her that I thought it was the other way around. I had thought that it was those countries that were more concerned with exporting counterrevolution to Cuba rather than we to them. Tell her, too, That there is no proof in existence that we have sent weapons or arms to any other country of Latin America in order to start revolutions there. On the other hand, we do have thousands of proofs that the arms and the weapons sent by the United States and many other countries into Cuba Have all been intended to raise counterrevolutions here in Cuba, in our island. That is the truth of the story. Ask her why they always look at things from a different angle. If they want to know what we think, we'll tell them. We think that revolutions cannot be exported. We believe that revolutions either do occur Or they don't occur. If conditions of an objective nature are conducive to the revolution, then the revolution will take place in that country. Furthermore, there has also to be an adequate degree of political awareness in the people of a country so that they are able to carry out such a revolution. But that you cannot export. Any more than you can export counterrevolutions. Now, I ask myself a question: if a country feels that it has the right to export counterrevolutions, what right has that country to deny another country equal rights to export revolutions?

Lisa Howard: My point is, are you exporting counterrevolutions? The San Jose meeting, the San Jose meeting Pledged to stop the flow of arms, men, funds, and material subversive from Cuba to other nations. Now, why do you think they made such a pledge? Are you exporting revolution? Are you not exporting revolution?

Fidel Castro: Entonces, ¿por qué cree usted que la conferencia de San José en Costa Rica hizo el compromiso de evitar el flujo de armas, propagandas y hombres? Ella la pregunta concreta que quiere hacer es: ¿está usted exportando o No podemos estar exportando algo que no se puede exportar. We cannot be exporting something that cannot be exported.

Lisa Howard: So your answer is that you are not training men and you are not sending arms or material to other countries to create revolutions.

Fidel Castro: Sí, el presidente dice que entonces la respuesta suya es que no se Well, there is one thing you must bear in mind.

Speaker 8: She spoke of propaganda. That's one thing. We do have radio stations. We do have speeches of the revolutionary leaders and information from Cuba itself. And we make all this known in Latin America. But this is something very similar to what occurs with the radio stations In the United States, in Florida, for example. And many other parts of the country, where you broadcast programs, where you publish, where you make known the points of view of your country, of the United States of America. And when all is said and done, you know, we do not possess the enormous resources of the United States government. Nor do we possess the training centers that the United States has, so we cannot compete with your country in the training of people from all over Latin America.

Lisa Howard: But as a dedicated Marxist-Leninist, don't you feel that it's important and necessary to export your revolution? Isn't that part of your philosophy?

Fidel Castro: Pero como un marxista-leninista dedicado, no creo que sea necesario.

Speaker 8: ¿Cómo dice?

Fidel Castro: Que no cree usted, como un marxista-leninista dedicado, que sea necesario exportar la revolución. What I think is that the idea ought to be defended and divulged. The idea. And it is what you do too. And your idea, what about the United States? Your way of living, many of your ideas didn't come from Europe.

Lisa Howard: There's a body of liberal opinion in the United States which contends that you turned to Soviet Russia because you have no alternative, because by 1960 the United States had closed its doors to you, and they believe that if the United States could have accepted The expropriation was of course a pledge by you for compensation. You would have remained with the West, or at least neutral. Are they correct, or was your revolution inevitably going to turn in this radical a direction?

Fidel Castro: Dile que es cierto que al Suspenderse la compra de azúcar a Cuba y cerrarse todas las puertas al comercio entre Cuba y Estados Unidos. A Cuba no le quedaba otra alternativa.

Speaker 8: Tell her that it is true that when the United States suspended the sugar quota of Cuba, when the United States closed all the doors to trade between Cuba and the United States, Cuba had no other alternative from the economic standpoint than to tighten its economic relations with the Soviet Union. She now wants to know what would have happened if those measures had not been taken, if the United States had accepted expropriation. Well, I don't know, but I don't believe that you can answer a question like that just categorically. We can't know exactly how events would have followed if such a stand had been taken by her country. But I do believe, and of this I'm convinced, that relations would have been very different from what they are now. They certainly would not have been the same.

Barbara Walters: On Friday night, President Castro sat down with me for the first major American television interview in 6 years. With a Cuban government interpreter, we talked for more than 4 hours, first about relations with the United States. Mr. President, every time that you begin to talk about improving relations with the United States, Washington says, show us deeds, not words. What actions or deeds are you prepared to make? To improve relations with the United States?

Speaker 5: You said every time I speak of improving relations. Actually, there are not many times. Now then, I have read a few statements in which it is said that they want deeds and not words. I believe That, that is a style of speaking. I would say a style of a great power. I understand that it is not easy for the United States to change its style. We are a small country. We cannot speak in those terms.

Speaker 8: I understand.

Speaker 5: But we are also a country with a lot of dignity. And no one can suppose that we would beg the United States for an improvement of relations. We have never done so, and we shall never do it. No pretendo que crean lo que— My intention is not that they believe what we say. But rather simply to analyze our ideas and to go deeper in them and to make objective analyses of events. It is not a matter of faith, of confidence. It is a matter of objectivity.

Barbara Walters: Let's go through some of— an objective analysis of the State Department And the White House always say that there are 3 obstacles to improving relations between Cuba and the United States. And they are your allegiance to the Soviet Union, what they call subversion in this hemisphere, and the large number of your troops in Africa.

Speaker 5: Thank you.

Barbara Walters: Sometimes they also mention human rights in Cuba. The White House mentioned human rights in Cuba this week again. Can we discuss in detail each of these, each of these, starting with relations with the Soviet Union? Is there a formula by which you could keep your ties To the Soviet Union and improve relations with the United States?

Speaker 5: If the United States believe that there are 3 obstacles, actually there are quite a few. Quite little. I thought there were much more. Now then, if we analyze these 3 types of Obstacles. The first, that is, the relations that we have with the Soviet Union, with the socialist countries, and with any other country, are matters of our sovereignty. And that cannot be questioned. Or at least, we are not ready to discuss that.

Fidel Castro: Well, Benji Schoendorf, you're And this is always—

Speaker 5: this is something that I always say in a very frank way. If, in order to improve our relations with the United States, we must give up our convictions and our principles, then relations will not improve on those grounds. If we are going to question our sovereignty, Then they will not improve either. Relations between Cuba and the Soviet Union are based in the most strict respect for independence and sovereignty of our country. We have relations? We have friendly relations, very close relations, and these relations cannot be affected in order to improve relations with the United States. I believe that the United States would not respect a country that would do such a thing. The countries that do those things simply are not respected. And actually, we are not going to change neither our flag nor our ideas. In our relations with the Soviet Union, in our friendship, we'll— Even if you change your flag? be maintained intangible. I say this being fully frank and fully sincere. And it is necessary that this be understood.

Barbara Walters: The director of Cuban affairs in the State Department, Kenneth Skoog, he said in a speech in December what Cuba could not do and still retain Moscow's favor Is to alter its fundamental commitment to unswerving support for Soviet policy. And so my question is, isn't that unswerving support for Soviet policy the price of the Soviet aid that keeps the Cuban economy going?

Speaker 5: Bueno, nosotros hemos Well, we coincide in many things with the Soviet Union, because we have a community of political principles. It is a socialist country. We are a socialist country. We do have many things in common with the Soviet Union. And in many international problems, we have had common stance.

Speaker 8: That is?

Speaker 5: That is based on political ideas and principles. It is a friendly country, of whose friendship we will not reject and of which we do not feel ashamed of, because, actually, we are not going to fight with our friends to become friends of our adversaries.

Fidel Castro: That's right.

Speaker 5: That we shall never do. And the Soviets have never imposed any conditions on us, on their assistance. And they have never attempted to tell us what we should do, what we must do, with which countries we are to trade, and with which countries should we have relations. So, I simply can't understand where these theories come from, that is, that our relations with the Soviets— Should be conditional. Are an obstacle. And if someone thinks that we are going to sell out, or that we are going to give up our banners or our flags, or that we are going to change our ideas, that is an error. Cuba is a country that cannot be bought. And countries that are bought are simply not respected.

Barbara Walters: I think what the United States government is saying Is that your economic dependence on Moscow makes you automatically a part of the Soviet camp in having to agree to policies like the Soviet intervention in Afghanistan. Would you, Fidel Castro, who values the independence and integrity of a small country, would you Would you alone have approved the Soviet intervention in Afghanistan if you had been free to make your own choice? Did you privately and personally approve of the Soviet intervention in Afghanistan?

Speaker 5: Bueno, nosotros cuando se planteó la nación, when it was put forth at the UN, that is the question, the issue. We said. Clearly that in that conflict, in that attack, that tremendous attack against the Soviet Union led by the United States, we were not going to be on the side of the United States. Simply that. And we were then on the side of the Soviet Union. That is, we did not We did not deal or delve on the topic. That is what we said. This is our position because of this.

Barbara Walters: But isn't that the point, that your friendship and dependence on the Soviet Union makes you part of the camp and therefore take positions which Washington regards as anti-American positions?

Speaker 5: Establish this dependency as something that is actual, in fact, and actual. But in today's world, in the economic arena, no one is absolutely independent, not even the United States, nor Japan, nor Western Europe. They depend on oil, raw materials, and from many other countries. They need markets. They need trade.

Barbara Walters: That is—

Speaker 5: No country is totally independent economically.

Barbara Walters: Is it not true that your role, in return for all the aid you get from the Soviet Union, is to be a thorn in America's side?

Speaker 5: If that were true, we would not be talking about improving relations with the United States. If our role is to be a thorn, then it would not be convenient for us. Actually, it does not bring us great benefits, either. That is, we are based on a conviction, and it is the necessity to struggle in our area, in Central America, throughout the world.

Speaker 8: It is a duty, actually, a duty.

Speaker 5: That we have in order to lower tensions and to achieve relations of peace in the world. And I say this sincerely, although I am a revolutionary. I was a revolutionary, I am a revolutionary, and I shall always be a revolutionary. And I will not change a single of my principles for 1,000 relations with 1,000 countries like the United States.

Barbara Walters: Will the Soviet Union collapse? Will Cuba continue to provide you with the aid and support it does, do you believe, if you have good relations with the Soviet— with the United States?

Speaker 5: Look, our relations with the Soviet Union, with the socialist countries, are solid things based on principles and have absolutely It has absolutely nothing to do with our economic and political relations with the United States. I will say one thing, though. The Soviet Union and the Soviet people feel great appreciation and great respect toward Cuba. But it is— they respect Cuba because they admire, as other peoples do, the valentía, The courage of Cuba, Cuba's staunchness, and Cuba's capability to resist for over 26 years the aggressions, the economic blockade, and the brutality of the United States.

Barbara Walters: Would, would the Soviet Union like it if you had better relations with the United States, the blockade perhaps were lifted? And the economic burden on the Soviet Union were shared or lessened.

Speaker 5: The United States will pay us for our sugar at the price of the Soviets? Or will they be buying the nickel? And they will be maintaining the type of relations and trade that we have with the socialist countries? But I believe that the idea that we have any needs To trade with the United States should be totally eradicated. Everything we have done for the— during these 26 years, we have done it without trade with the United States. And our future has been conceived without trade with the United States. Actually, we have not asked the Soviet Union. We generally, we don't ask their opinion on our economic or political relations. But in an international arena. But I know the Soviet Union very well, and I know the policy of the Soviet Union, and the Soviet Union would never be against Cuba's developing its economic relations with the other capitalist countries, including the United States.

Barbara Walters: So, to move on to the second point that Washington says is an obstacle to In better relations. What the White House spokesman Larry Speakes called this week your subversion in the hemisphere. Let me quote you again, Mr. Scuggs of the State Department. It is Cuba's striving with Soviet support To introduce Marxist-Leninist regimes throughout the hemisphere, which still lies at the heart of our differences. Would you comment on that?

Speaker 5: Well, I could also accuse the Pope of practicing subversion in Latin America and preaching Christianity and He has visited many countries, even recently. He met with natives and said that the land had to be given to the natives and the land properties. And he declared that schools were necessary for the children, jobs for the workers and for the families, medicine and doctors for the people. You, and also foodstuffs or housing. What we preach is more or less that. And besides, it is what we have done in our country. So then, we will continue being Marxist and will continue being socialist, and we will always say that our social system Is more just. But we have said, also, because we are convinced about it, we have said the following, and which is my answer to that: Neither can Cuba export revolution, because revolutions cannot be exported. And the economic, social factors, the cultural, historical, The factors that determine the boom or revolution cannot be exported. The external— the huge external debt of Latin America cannot be exported. The formula applied by the International Monetary Fund cannot be exported by Cuba. The unequal trade cannot be exported by Cuba. Under development and Poverty cannot be exported by Cuba, and that is why Cuba cannot export revolution. It is absurd. It is ridiculous to say that the revolutions can be exported. But the United States cannot, on the other hand, avoid them either. The United States accuses us maybe of wanting to promote change. Well then, we would like. But it will take time. It will take time to see changes occur, but changes will come, whether the United States likes it or not, whether or not Cuba likes it. I could answer by saying that the United States wants to maintain an unjust social order that has meant for the peoples of this hemisphere poverty, hunger, underdevelopment, diseases, ignorance. And the United States wants to maintain that. And we could also say that the United States wants to avoid change. If we are accused of wanting to promote change, we can also accuse the United States of wanting to avoid change and of wanting to maintain an unjust social regime. But actually, neither can we export it, nor can the revolution avoid it, nor can the United States avoid it.

Barbara Walters: In supporting militarily the revolution, The Sandinista regime in Nicaragua, is Cuba not helping to sustain and introduce a Marxist-Leninist regime?

Speaker 5: In helping Nicaragua? By offering military cooperation? Well, we are helping an independent country. We are helping a Just revolution to defend itself. That's simply what we're doing. In the same way that, for example, the United States has also sent weapons to this in this hemisphere to other people. It sent weapons to Somoza. It sent weapons to Trujillo when Trujillo was there. It sent weapons to Pinochet. It sent weapons to all of the repressive governments. Governments of Latin America, governments that murdered, tortured dozens of thousands of people, governments which disappeared tens of thousands of people. They had no moral obstacle in giving any economic, financial and military assistance to these governments. So, with what moral grounds Can it be questioned? That is, can our right be questioned to help Nicaragua and Nicaragua's right to receive that aid? I ask the following: Can the United States help the counterrevolutionary bands, supply weapons to them, explosives, to fight inside Nicaragua, something that has meant the lives of Thousands and thousands of people, and on the other hand question Cuba's right and Nicaragua's right. That is for us to give aid, economic, technical aid, and even some cooperation in the military field.

Barbara Walters: So you would not stop giving such aid as a condition of improved relations with the United States?

Speaker 5: We. shall not make any unilateral decision in our relations and cooperation with Nicaragua. What we have said is that in Central America, a political negotiated solution is possible. What we say is that we support the effort of Contador to seek a solution. —seek solutions of peace in Central America, that we support it staunchly, sincerely, and that we believe that political solutions exist and peace solutions exist that are convenient for the Nicaraguans, for Central America and for the United States itself, and that we are ready to struggle for that. And also that the agreements that are reached shall be complied by us in a determined way. That is, any agreement reached between Nicaragua and the Contadora framework shall be complied by us to the very letter.

Barbara Walters: How hopeful are you that now that some political settlement can be reached in Central America?

Speaker 5: I am absolutely convinced. I have a lot of information about the work of Contadora effort, all the discussions, all the burning issues there, the positions of the United States, Nicaragua's positions. And I am convinced, fully convinced, that— I'm sorry. It is possible to find formulas that would be acceptable by all parties or to all parties. I have that conviction. I'm convinced about that. Now then, for it, it is necessary for the United States to want to really cooperate in finding a political solution. I believe that as long as the United States is convinced that it can destroy the Sandinista Revolution from within, by combining the effect of the economic measures against Nicaragua with the economic difficulty Inside Nicaragua, and the actions of the counterrevolutionary bands, as long as they're convinced that they can destroy the revolution from within, it will not be seriously ready to seek a political solution to the problems of Central America. Because if it believes that it will destroy Why negotiate, then? Why reach agreements? Now, then, now, when the United States becomes persuaded that it shall not achieve that goal, that the Nicaraguan revolution cannot be destroyed from within, because of the questions I mentioned, the problems I mentioned, I believe that they can face the economic problems.

Fidel Castro: What do you mean by that?

Speaker 5: With what they produce and with the aid they are receiving, the economic aid they're receiving. If they handle it correctly, efficiently, they can face the economic problems. I'm convinced of that. I am also convinced that they can defeat the bans and that the bans will never be able to defeat—

Barbara Walters: By the— excuse me, by the bans you mean what are called in the United States the Contras.

Speaker 5: Yes, the counterrevolutionary bands. That will be defeated. They will be defeated. So then a situation will come up before the United States. That is, the United States will have no other alternative but to negotiate seriously, to seek a solution, or invade Nicaragua. And since, in my view, By my criteria, a U.S. invasion in Nicaragua is inconceivable, since it would mean such a serious mistake, a terrible mistake, that I do not simply think that the United States would really get to the point of making that mistake. I cannot assure you that it might not do it, but I say that it is inconceivable.

Fidel Castro: Thank you.

Speaker 5: That under the present circumstances in Latin America, under the present circumstances of crisis, with the present feeling on the part of the Latin American peoples, at the times we're living in, the aggression and invasion against a Latin American country would be as catastrophic in political terms. It would mean such a political cost, and not only a political cost, but also in terms of U.S. lives.

Barbara Walters: Let me turn to Africa. The third of those obstacles that Washington sees to improving relations with you, your troops in Angola. You've talked recently about circumstances arising which would cause you to bring them home. What would happen— what would have to happen to start bringing the Cuban troops out of Angola?

Speaker 5: What is needed there? Well, discussions have taken place with the participation of the United States. The United States has had dialogues, talks, With Angola's leadership. We are informed through the Angolans about these negotiations or talks that have been held with our support and with our full cooperation.

Barbara Walters: That is, they have carried out these negotiations in Could you withdraw any of your troops before there is agreement?

Speaker 5: No, no. The Angolans would not agree with that. And from our point of view, it would be a mistake. The Angolan proposal, that is, if those circumstances come up, then Angola commits itself And Cuba, of course, would support it to withdraw in a period of 3 years what is called the grouping of troops in the south, which is made up by approximately 20,000 men. And even the figure was given. This is the bulk of our troops.

Fidel Castro: Actually.

Speaker 5: But there are still troops in the center and to the north of Angola, including Cabinda. The Angolans have not included these troops in the negotiations, these present negotiations, and their position is that to withdraw those troops, it would be something that would have to be discussed between Angola and Cuba, whenever it is considered that they can dispense of these troops.

Barbara Walters: Do you think that this projected settlement of the Angola situation, does that erase Cuban troops in Angola as an issue between you and the United States?

Fidel Castro: Antes no había tropas en Angola.

Speaker 5: Before, there were no troops in Angola, and relations were very bad with the United States. The day where there are no troops in Angola or in some other place, or there are no advisers in Central America, maybe the United States might invent something else.

Barbara Walters: Just to sum up our conversation about improving relations with the United Why is this the right time to raise this? And realistically speaking, how hopeful are you that it can happen?

Speaker 5: Whether this is the right, best moment? I believe that if the United States is objective, If it is realistic, I would say that it is the best moment for the United States, not for us. Actually, we can go on for 5, 10, 15, 20 more years. The only obligation of our— on our part, really, is toward peace. If there's peace here and in other areas, we will feel— And peace is possible? More peace. If relations are normalized, even more peace, because it would be then a progressive progress. Peace is convenient for all. But from the political point of view, I'm convinced, and I'm saying this fully frankly, I think that the United States benefits most than us. We can sit here and wait calmly and see what happens in the coming years.

Barbara Walters: For him, it was the middle of the workday, about 9 p.m. President Castro, it has been 25 years since you and I sat like this. You are no longer smoking?

Fidel Castro: Yo creo que fumaba entonces. I think I smoked at that time. I've not been smoking for 17 years now. But you don't look like 25 years have passed. You look exactly.

Barbara Walters: You are saying this so I will not ask tough questions.

Fidel Castro: No, you're sick. No, of course not. But partly, yes, of course. But the difficult questions will come anyway.

Lisa Howard: Thank you.

Barbara Walters: Thank you. Also, you're not wearing a uniform now. You wear suits.

Fidel Castro: Barbara, precisely in order to seduce you and for you to be kind to me, to have pity on me.

Barbara Walters: I see. Okay. We will see. I want to talk about relations between our country today. The U.S. has called Cuba a terrorist state. After September 11th, you offered your condolences to the United States. You criticized the attacks. You did not oppose the U.S. use of Guantanamo as a prison. But the U.S. State Department says that your government has deliberately tried to sabotage the U.S.'s anti-terrorist efforts by providing false leads. And they have stated that Cuba is developing biological weapons. 2 very strong accusations against your country.

Fidel Castro: The only thing I can tell you about that, in real terms, is that all that, all those accusations are absolutely false. They are absolute lies. It is not that it is a false version. They are absolute lies. I mean, they become an insult against the intelligence of any person to try to deceive them like that, because a small nation like ours would have to be absolutely insane, being so close to the most powerful country in the world. It would be so insane for such a country to commit any terrorist acts against the United States.

Barbara Walters: Me, personally, I don't believe that.

Fidel Castro: The historical truth is that thousands and thousands of terrorist actions have been conducted against our country— sabotages, plans, attempts against my life, and plans to have caused thousands of casualties. And there is not one case— there is not one case of one American who has died of the result of some action on the part of Cuba against the United States. I'm sorry. That has not happened in 43 years. We are willing to invite the international scientific community to come here and take a look at whatever they— at those places where hypothetically we are conducting such research. We would have to be mad out of our minds to try to manufacture the weapon.

Barbara Walters: President Castro, you oppose an attack against Cuba.

Fidel Castro: Yes? I am not the only one.

Barbara Walters: In your view, is Saddam Hussein a good leader for the people of Iraq?

Fidel Castro: Almost on the eve of an announced war, I wonder, what sense does it make for me to play the judge and issue my views about this in one sense or another one? I think I would be pouring oil on the flame.

Barbara Walters: It was obvious to us that President Castro did not want to directly challenge President Bush, especially while support is building in Congress to further relax the restrictions on American trade and travel. But President Bush has said that he will veto all attempts to ease the sanctions unless, he says, you allow opposition parties to organize and to speak, that you release political political prisoners, and most important, that you have free elections monitored by objective outside observers. Now, you want the sanctions lifted. Is there anything that you can say or do that can change this?

Fidel Castro: Nothing will propose it. It is not my purpose to use this interview To make criticisms or to attack President Bush. I think we should all dispense with the lies and rhetoric and abide by reasoning. The last time, when he made a number of very insulting statements against us, he made all those accusations and others. It was after his speech on May 20th in Miami. For 43 years, every election in Cuba has been a fraud and a sham. To make them free and fair, they must give opposition candidates the freedom to organize, assemble, and speak.

Speaker 8: Viva Cuba libre!

Fidel Castro: I think it was very ill-advised to make that speech. We are an independent nation. We are very sensitive to our rights, and we are very sensitive to the respect our But what it seems to boil down to is freedom, freedom of expression.

Barbara Walters: People in your own country have asked for more democracy, but you have never allowed anyone to run opposite you. So what we keep talking about is freedom, is more openness.

Fidel Castro: Barbara, is this your statement? Or is this President Bush's statement? Can I ask you any questions? You have millions of questions. You have more questions than the U.S. Air Force has missiles.

Barbara Walters: You have good answers.

Fidel Castro: I tell you, Barbara, now I'd like to say this. Look, is it that in those countries, with 20, 25% of the people Or 10% of the people are absolute illiterates. Can you speak of freedom there? Is it possible for them to be free? Don't you need some education to do that? Don't you need some culture? Without culture and without knowledge, there is no possibility to attain freedom.

Barbara Walters: For Castro, freedom starts with education. And if literacy alone were the yardstick, Cuba would rank Cuba ranks as one of the freest nations on Earth. The literacy rate is 96%. This is a teachers' college in Havana, where the emphasis is on training for high school classrooms, where Castro says he wants his best and his brightest. Our visit here had little advance notice. The welcome these students gave him, the almost overwhelming emotion we saw on campus, seemed spontaneous. In my country, there are complaints that teachers are underpaid. In your country, maybe bellboys in hotels make more than teachers because they are paid in dollars and not pesos. Does that bother you?

Fidel Castro: Well, one would dream to reach heaven, you know. We would like to pay the best of salaries We have raised wages to our teachers. But let's talk without comparing it to the tourist industry. We have tried, though, for them to have the best that we can afford. But if the country had 10,000 teachers, we could raise their wages, and it would be easier. But then we have 200,000 teachers. It would be easier to pay higher wages to 20,000 people than it is to pay to 200,000.

Barbara Walters: The people who sacrifice the most What was your own favorite subject when you were a child?

Fidel Castro: History. History, yes.

Barbara Walters: Castro's passion for history was part of his revolutionary manifesto. His creed became, history will absolve me. He says his love of the subject came to him early.

Fidel Castro: History brought more stories to life. Stories, you know. Stories, you know. I always loved the stories.

Barbara Walters: Stories, yes.

Fidel Castro: You know, first the sacred history and the creation of the universe, Adam and Eve and the forbidden apple, and then Noah's Ark and the universe of— I loved that. That I began learning in first grade. I liked that better than math then. Geography, yes, I liked it also because it meant like touring the world, you know, and there was no subject about the Revolution. I wasn't taught about that in school.

Barbara Walters: Well, then, yeah, history will absolve me. I remember that.

Fidel Castro: Sacred history will also absolve me. When 20/20 returns, Barbara Walters' exclusive interview with Fidel Castro continues after a brief commercial.

Barbara Walters: A concept completely foreign to Are we going to have Robert Titon in the interviews? One thing has not changed between Fidel Castro and me. We still like to argue. 25 years ago, we clashed over questions about freedom. This time, even after all these years, we still argue. Here's how we sparred the first time around. Let me be specific.

Fidel Castro: Hey, hey, hey, hey, you want some money?

Barbara Walters: Radio, television, motion pictures are under state control. No dissent or opposition is allowed in the public media.

Fidel Castro: Bárbara, nosotros no tenemos las mismas concepciones.

Speaker 5: We do not have your same conceptions.

Fidel Castro: Nosotros no tenemos el concepto de libertad de expresión. Our concept of freedom of the press is not yours. Desde luego, se lo digo con toda sinceridad. And I say this very honestly. No tengo que ocultar absolutamente nada. I have nothing to hide. If you ask us if a paper could appear here against socialism, I could say honestly, no, it cannot.

Speaker 8: It would not be allowed by the government, the government, or the people.

Fidel Castro: In that sense, we do not have the freedom of the press that you possess in the U.S.

Barbara Walters: You still do not have freedom of the press. You do You do not have your newspapers, your radio, television. Everything is controlled.

Fidel Castro: Yes, Barbara, it's very difficult to persuade you. There is no sense in going back to those arguments of years ago. This argument is too old now. Now I would like to say this: not all Americans feel the same. Look, Barbara, I have been talking to Americans for 43 years, and in the last few years, much more. And sometimes I am criticized for the many hours I spend talking with them. We go on until 3:00 in the morning. You and I have done that. And, you know, I think that the Americans are coming to understand better that there are more important problems in the world. Than definitions of freedom of the press.

Barbara Walters: Yeah, but we allow opposition.

Fidel Castro: We don't mind that. You know, Barbara, have you ever seen a demonstration in Cuba that has been suppressed with tear gas?

Barbara Walters: Do you allow demonstrations at all?

Fidel Castro: And do you allow them?

Barbara Walters: Do you allow them? Here we don't have them. Do you allow them if someone wants? Why do we need to prevent anything that?

Fidel Castro: Doesn't happen at all. Why do we need to prohibit something that doesn't exist, Barbara?

Barbara Walters: But you don't let it happen. Maybe people might want to protest.

Fidel Castro: But why don't they do it if they want it? You won't allow it. Look, Barbara, we collect unofficial polls, and these are not directed polls where you ask a question that would guide the answer. No, these are open questions so we know how the people For instance, Cuba has the highest number of doctors per capita in the world. In the world! All the citizens have full guarantee for their life. Their children do not need to become beggars here. They have the possibility to study free of charge into the university.

Barbara Walters: You talk about polls, but we are familiar with the statistics. A poll of 11,000 people, the Varela polls, in which they asked for more democracy. Petitions calling for a referendum on more democracy started being circulated in Cuba more than a year ago as part of what is called the Varela Project. Under Cuba's constitution, a petition signed by more than 10,000 citizens should force a referendum. Some of our other petitions bear more than 11,000 signatures. And under your constitution, with 10,000 signatures, you should honor that. But it has not been these people who were dissenting and wanted more freedom.

Fidel Castro: Is that your statement?

Barbara Walters: No, it's a question. My question is, why did you not honor those 10,000 signatures?

Fidel Castro: Now, you said that there were 10,000 people having the right to present a petition? Yes, they have the right to present a petition, but not to change the Constitution. Anyone has the right to present a petition, yes, and they will receive the response from the National Assembly. But I'm sure the National Assembly will take We have taken all the necessary steps. They will have their response in due course. In due course.

Barbara Walters: You feel socialism works. It seems that the tide in the rest of the world is turning away, that you see China allowing more free enterprise. The Soviet Union is no more. We see people in your country Hungry. We see people going on boats and risking their lives to leave this country. So it seems to many people that socialism is not working. Does socialism work?

Fidel Castro: Yes, it does. Yes, our socialism works in our country. I can only speak to you about Cuba. I know what the Chinese have done and the Vietnamese have done for their people. If they did not have socialism, they wouldn't have been able to attain the economic growth they have today. Does capitalism work in Mexico, when millions of Mexicans are putting their life at risk? When thousands die every year trying to get into the United States? Now you say that socialism doesn't work here? Then capitalism doesn't work, either. When 20/20 returns—

Barbara Walters: My goodness! Does Ilan ever mention America?

Fidel Castro: Next.

Barbara Walters: 3 years ago, a little Cuban boy was pulled from the sea and into a swirling drama. His name? Elián González. He survived while his mother drowned trying to escape the poverty in her country. For many, the face of a 6-year-old boy came to symbolize the problems in Castro's Cuba. Elián's story split public opinion wide open in this country and inflamed the Cuban-American community in Miami. Some felt the child belonged here, where they said he could have a better life, and passions flared when there It was decided that Elián be returned to his father in Cuba. How has Elián González fared since he left the headlines? I asked President Castro about the boy, and then his father spoke to me. Many Americans, young Americans, learned about Cuba in recent years because of the Elián González case. What effect do you think it had on U.S.-Cuban relations? Did it help, or did it hurt?

Fidel Castro: No, it could not hurt us. Let us say that the effect it had on our people was to multiply our good feelings towards the American people. And perhaps that situation gave a rise to the possibility of the Americans knowing a little bit better about Cuba. It should not be forgotten that that over 80% of Americans supported the return of the child to Cuba, and that was an act of justice.

Barbara Walters: How is Elián today?

Fidel Castro: He's very well. He's very active, very intelligent. I think he's in 4th grade now. Very soon he will be in junior high school, and he's an excellent boy. His family is also an excellent family. I do not know whether you have had any chance to meet him.

Barbara Walters: Indeed, our earlier request to interview Elián's father had been declined. But when I asked President Castro personally, Juan Miguel González appeared the next morning. He had been whisked to Havana in a government car from his home, an hour and a half away. And this is Elián today, big boy.

Juan Miguel González: He will be nine on December the sixth. He's almost as tall as I am now. He's doing karate at school.

Speaker 8: He's a green belt. Does Ilion ever mention America?

Juan Miguel González: He just remembers the wonderful people with which he shared great times when we went there to look for him, and the times we shared together in America. But he tries not to remember the bad times he had. From the time he was with the family, from the time they did things against me and separated us, he doesn't remember that as a good time.

Barbara Walters: Does Ilan ever ask about his mother?

Juan Miguel González: I have tried to keep the image of his mother alive.

Speaker 5: In his bedroom, for example, we have a picture of his mother.

Juan Miguel González: For Mother's Day, birthday, we usually have some flowers.

Barbara Walters: Does he know how his mother died?

Juan Miguel González: Yes, he remembers everything. He knows and is aware of everything that happened.

Barbara Walters: What would you most like people to know about your son?

Juan Miguel González: Actualmente quisiera que conocieran que I would like them to know that after three. After 3 years of being here in Cuba with his family, he's very happy, and that we are very thankful to the Cuban people for all the help, and the American people for all the help they gave.

Barbara Walters: Although his father says that Elián is very happy, the fact is that life in Cuba for most families is difficult. These old cars are rolling reminders of the American embargo, in effect since Since 1960. Congress permitted the export of food to Cuba 2 years ago, but only for cash. The Cuban government feeds its people a spartan but adequate diet. Nobody starves. Most basic commodities, however, are rationed. The 1990 collapse of the Soviet Union, once Cuba's economic mainstay, brought hard times from which the country is only now recovering. Tourism, almost nonexistent when I visited here 25 years ago, now attracts over a million visitors a year, mainly Europeans and Canadians. This is one of several squares or plazas in Old Havana, and you can see the contrast. Behind me is a building that has been renovated. It's now going to be a hotel and a restaurant. They're hoping to have more tourists here, especially American tourists, who have Of course, not allowed to come here now. Right over here, you can see one of the old buildings dating back to the 1800s. People are living in it, obviously. As you can see, certainly no washing machines. When they have money, they renovate. When they don't have money, this is what you have. When I was last here, the U.S. dollar was illegal. Now it is both legal and preferred. Some Americans defied the travel ban and come for Nobody really acknowledges that law.

Fidel Castro: I have been here illegally probably 5, 5 times in the last 6 or 7 years.

Barbara Walters: Private restaurants are now allowed in socialist Cuba. Shops and bars are run by budding capitalists. The seedy side of tourism is seen here as well, but the government says it is tackling that problem. We have heard that tourists do come Because there is prostitution, men, women, and children, and that it is allowed. Did not used to be, but is now.

Fidel Castro: Is that true? In the first years of the revolution, we educated tens of thousands of women who had been living on prostitution, and they were given jobs. Yes, and the brothels were closed. Closed. The brothels were closed. We don't say that there are no prostitutes, but that does not mean that we promote it. There has been no tolerance in this country, and there will not be tolerance of sexual tourism. When 20/20 continues—

Barbara Walters: Were we that close to nuclear war? We have started to hear the drums of war pounding now, but 40 years ago at this time, they were deafening. Today in Havana, an international conference begins, marking the anniversary of what we call the Cuban Missile Crisis. It was 1962. The president was John F. Kennedy. And although we were afraid then, most Americans never knew just how close we came. We were afraid. to nuclear war, and few have ever heard Fidel Castro's side of the story. Now, as high-level members of the Kennedy administration attend the conference in Cuba, Fidel Castro reveals to us formerly classified information.

Fidel Castro: All ships of any kind bound for Cuba, from whatever nation or port, where they're found to contain cargoes of offensive weapons, be turned back.

Barbara Walters: For 13 days in October of 1962, the world held its breath. President Kennedy issued an ultimatum on October 22nd that any nuclear weapon launched from Cuba would be considered a Soviet attack, the first strike in a nuclear war. Negotiations between Kennedy and Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev finally resulted in the Soviet missiles Being withdrawn from Cuba, but we now know it was a nearly fatal collision. President Castro showed me documents that are being newly released this week at a conference to mark the 40th anniversary of the missile crisis. Is it the case that you wrote to Premier Khrushchev saying that if the United States did invade Cuba, the response should There was going to be a Soviet first strike, that is, a nuclear strike against the U.S. Were we that close to nuclear war?

Fidel Castro: Yes, we were very close to the nuclear war, extremely close. Yes, I said to Khrushchev, there is going to be an attack. In that case, do not give your adversary the possibility of a first strike. strike that catches you off guard. Later, there was a great controversy because he misinterpreted my words. He said that I had said to him to deal a first strike, a preemptive strike, to begin a war. And I never said that. I only said not to give Americans the chance to strike first, because I was sure that the U.S. reaction would be to strike against Soviet targets.

Barbara Walters: Did you, Mr. President, think there was going to be an invasion by the United States?

Fidel Castro: Well, it was not something I was worried about, because we had been expecting it for a long time. The number of weapons we had at that time made us feel confident that we would be able to defend ourselves and resist— resist who knows for how long. I think a long time. Perhaps we would have been the first Vietnam. So we were not afraid. That was not the reason for us to accept those missiles. Having the missiles in Cuba was very important for the Soviet leaders. I think they were very worried. The Soviets were. Even though Nikita was a bold man, he was a courageous man, and I can make criticisms of him, I realize that from that time the political mistakes he was making, which would later contribute a lot to the crisis, because he did not tell the truth to Kennedy. In fact, he misled Kennedy. That was his main flaw. We insisted more than once that that military agreement between our 2 countries should be made public, that we should not hide anything, because we were doing nothing illegal. We were acting within the international law. However, Khrushchev did not pay any attention to us.

Barbara Walters: So, you think that if he had said, we're going to put missiles there for our balance of power, instead of keeping it secret, things might have been different?

Fidel Castro: When Kennedy was discussing with Khrushchev whether there were offensive weapons in Cuba, Khrushchev said no. Therefore, Kennedy was misled. That was a very big mistake on the part of Khrushchev, one that we opposed vehemently. First, he misled Kennedy, and later he made other military mistakes, and that meant a tremendous risk for our country.

Barbara Walters: If the embargo were lifted, would your country be economically sound? Would you then have no rationing? Would you then have no economic hardship? But if the embargo were lifted, is that all it takes? Or is it some failure?

Fidel Castro: Look, even if the embargo is not lifted, Cuba will continue to advance. The blockade has taught us a few lessons. We have become a hardworking people. We have become an austere people. We have learned how to tighten our belts. But we have also learned how to be generous. Tell me what other country in the world has 3,000 doctors working for free in Africa and Latin America, in the mountains, in the jungles. This country alone, this garbage of a country, this trash of a society, can send 3,000 people— I never said that. Barbara, I'm not answering questions. No, I'm answering to those who feel like that. I'm answering to the people who feel like that.

Barbara Walters: Mr. President, do you think that the basis of the embargo against Cuba is all politics in America today?

Fidel Castro: Yes, political reasons. It's all politics, and they do not enjoy the support What would be the damage if the U.S. government had lifted the embargo? Where is the glory for the United States of keeping this embargo here? It doesn't make sense, Barbara.

Barbara Walters: But to many Americans, and certainly to the Bush administration, the embargo does make sense. It was originally imposed to isolate Castro, compelling him to make democratic reforms. Or even to step down. Neither has happened. Do you think about transferring power now, or do you think that you will die as a leader of Cuba?

Fidel Castro: It would have to be an accident that would incapacitate me to to do my work.

Barbara Walters: You will stay in charge until. Until you are gone?

Fidel Castro: You should understand that this is not up to me, Barbara. Whether I stay in charge or not, it is not up to me. I would have to ask for our people's permission. They could consider, consider that treason. You know, I have the experience of so many years, and they value that, Barbara.

Barbara Walters: The reality is that in For 4 decades, Fidel Castro has never given his people the choice of another leader, nor do they really know much about his personal life. He prefers it that way. We do know that Castro was a child of privilege who turned his back on the establishment after law school.

Fidel Castro: Why are you here?

Barbara Walters: His current wife occasionally appears in public, as she did here with Elián González, but she is not usually seen at Castro's side. We know Fidel Castro is a grandfather, but the details are sketchy. Mr. President, Senor President Castro, will you indulge me in one personal question? Because we are talking about children.

Fidel Castro: Are you going to give me a test?

Barbara Walters: No, no, no, no test. No test. No test. No test.

Fidel Castro: Go on. Ask your question.

Lisa Howard: We've been talking about children.

Barbara Walters: Hemos estado hablando de los niños. And I know you are a very private man. Y yo sé que usted es un hombre que cuida mucho su vida privada. But we hear that you have 5 wonderful sons.

Fidel Castro: It's prohibited to go into my personal life.

Barbara Walters: Grandchildren?

Fidel Castro: It's not our way.

Barbara Walters: Great-grandchildren? And even a son?

Fidel Castro: Ah, yes, we have descendants and all that. But that's absolutely out of the question. It's my private life. I tried. Human right. I tried. It's my human right. I cling to my human right to defend my privacy.

Barbara Walters: I care a reporter's right to ask the question. Claro, of course.

Fidel Castro: And it is my human right to say no.

Barbara Walters: One thing: Are there triplets? Grandchildren? Wouldn't you like to know? Well, I think.

Fidel Castro: I think you are— there's some triplets around. I've heard that they exist.

Barbara Walters: But someday he may even give an answer. You and I have not talked like this in 25 years, and I appreciate your letting me ask questions. I'm not sure we're going to be—

Fidel Castro: now I'm thinking about the next 25 years. Why not? I'm already thinking about our next interview in 25 years, Barbara.

Barbara Walters: Thank you, President Castro, for your time.

Fidel Castro: Thank you very much.

Barbara Walters: I'll be back with some closing thoughts. Vision from Sprint. Clearly, a whole new way to look at wireless. I very much doubt that Fidel Castro and I will be doing another interview in 25 years. It's hard to say what Cuba will be like What will happen then? When Castro is gone, the embargo will probably be lifted. Cuba will be flooded with American tourists and their money. There may also be an invasion of American businessmen, a McDonald's on the corner, a Hilton Hotel. Will the country then become a democracy as we know it? Or will the people want to keep the socialist government they have now? Castro thinks so.

Lisa Howard: Yes.

Barbara Walters: Castro has been in power now for more than 40 years. Most Cubans, even those middle-aged, have never known another leader. Castro has been their father, their protector, their hero. So they may fear change. For others, especially Cuban Americans, Castro is a man who impoverished their homeland, imprisoned many of their friends, and destroyed their ideals. They will undoubtedly Undoubtedly feel relief when he is gone. So the future of Cuba is uncertain. One thing is certain: Cuba is a very small country, but the figure of Fidel Castro has been huge. Thank you.