Emergency Struggle Session-War on Iran w/Nina and Navid Farnia

Adnan Husain: Salam, hello, peace to you all. This is Adnan Hussain with a quick message ahead of a bonus full audio of a recent live stream on my YouTube channel. So this is an extra for you on the podcast feed. We know these are momentous and historically significant times, the genocide in Gaza, war on Iran, you know, stifling blockade upon Cuba, the kidnapping of Jews. an elected head of state in Venezuela, ICE raids and fascism and anti-immigrant far-right politics metastasizing in Venezuela. uh the entire west um the world is in turmoil and bringing historical political analysis by scholarly experts and anti-imperialist imperialist intellectuals for our understanding and political education is vital right now if we are to help reshape the world for a better human future That's my goal with this educational project. And if you can support it, I will be immensely grateful. You'll get early release of episodes, full audio of every YouTube live stream, some bonus readings and commentaries just for supporters, but most of all, the knowledge that you are helping keep all the episodes and live streams on YouTube, whether office hours, struggle sessions, or my solo video commentaries, free and available on youtube for everyone else who benefits but can't afford right now to contribute financially during these difficult economic times you can become a patron or a supporter in a variety of ways but i do just want to mention that i do this for the love of it to use my knowledge and though that of my guests for political education and understanding and advancing our cause and struggle for justice but i do have a production team and platform fees and if you can help me a little bit there my production team deserves uh you know fair compensation for the hard work they do So if you can help me, then you can become a patron on patreon.com slash Adnan Hussain or a supporting subscriber on Substack at adnanahussain.substack.com or make a one-time contribution via buymeacoffee.com slash Adnan Hussain. Peace and solidarity with you all.

Navid Farnia: Bismillahirrahmanirrahim.

Adnan Husain: Salaam, hello, peace to you all and welcome to a very special edition, struggle session and a kind of an emergency. live stream for the war on Iran. I'm Adan Hussein, host, and before just getting started, I want to say people are coming in. There's been a lot of interest in having these discussions and opportunities to get some genuine expertise and both historical and political analysis from people who are you know, intimately familiar with the situation, you know, with the region. And this is a great opportunity. And so be, don't be miserly. You, of course, are in the know. You've managed to find the stream and you're going to be in discussion with some really great scholars, anti-imperialist scholars. Share it. Like the stream. Share it on your social media accounts. So that your friends, colleagues, comrades can find out about it and come into the discussion here. So, you know, I'll just get started right away with saying that this is day two, you know, of the... back on Iran but of course this is like got a 40 year a 60 year you know you could take this back a long way and it is also a regional war which is going to be an important part of the perspective that we take and is of course what Iran promised it would be when a lot of this just as US Iran and US versus Iran they said this is going to be a regional war and we're seeing how that is unfolding and what that might mean. And we'll be wanting to talk about some of the consequences of all of that. But to help us understand better both the politics of the U.S., and also the region and Iran, we have two fantastic guests. A first time on the struggle session, Naveed Farnia, who is a professor of African-American studies. His research broadly explores the relationship between racial oppression in the United States and U.S. imperialism with a focus on revolutionary movements and counter-revolutionary responses. He has a book underway, National Liberation in an Imperialist World, Race, Counter-Revolution, and the United States, which traces the U.S. national security state's evolution by examining how U.S. officials responded to national liberation movements at home and abroad from the 1950s to 1980. That's going to be a really important study. I'm looking forward to it and maybe sometime we'll have you on to talk about that subject because that is a fascinating era of history. Navid Farnia, it's great to have you on. Thank you for making time to join on the struggle sessions.

Navid Farnia: Thank you, Adnan, and thank you for the invitation to be on. I'm excited to talk with you.

Adnan Husain: Somebody because Nina has been regular on struggle sessions, and we're really grateful to her for continuing to contribute her analysis and insight for the benefit of political education of this audience. I know many of my listeners and watchers really do appreciate it. But just to remind you, Nina Farnia is a law professor and legal historian whose scholarship exposes the role of imperialism in law and politics. And she has a book also forthcoming entitled Imperialism and Resistance. And that's based on her dissertation. in the Making of U.S. Law, 1940 to 2008, which won the 2023 Julian Mize Dissertation Award from the Association for the Study of Law, Culture, and the Humanities. And she's also interested in a work that would follow closely from imperialism and resistance, imperialism and fascism. So we're really... pleased to have both components, you know, here. So, you know, I wanted to, you know, so Nina, thanks again for coming back on.

Nina Farnia: Thank you so much. And thanks for making space, as always, Adnan, for these discussions.

Adnan Husain: Well, I really benefit from them, both because it's a chance to vent, but also to learn from comrades. And so that's what I expect to do a lot. You know, I thought... It would be worth starting with some of the sobering news that got confirmed, at least by the time I woke up this morning, maybe it was late last night, that Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei was martyred in an assassination attempt. on his office and compound and that he was also, of course, accompanied by several other, you know, key leaders and figures, Hani, who's, you know, one of the national, I don't remember the exact, but it's the real... that is tasked with leading the country through its military response in this war and others. And so this is something that we've seen as a practice of the you know, Zionist way of war is go for these spectacular so-called decapitation strikes, which are, we should, you know, point out, I don't need to say to a person familiar with international law, but like illegal, you know, assassinations of political legal war. And so I just was wondering, you know, if you had any thoughts and reflections, I've noticed a whole set of reactions, you know, to this, but it is, you know, kind of sobering, but what what do you think the consequences of it are? And do you have any observations? Mean, you know, for Iran and its resistance?

Nina Farnia: Do you want to go first, Navid?

Navid Farnia: No, you can go first.

Nina Farnia: OK. So first, my condolences to everybody, not just Iranians and Muslims and Shiites, but to all the peoples of the world that support the liberation of our peoples. For many, Ayatollah Khamenei was an important figure of revolution and resistance. And it is an incredible loss. His assassination, his martyrdom is an incredible loss. Though I will start by saying that believers will tell you that a martyr never dies, right? And in fact, a martyr can be more powerful after life than while living. And in the case of Ayatollah Khamenei, it seems like that actually may be true. There are millions of people now in the streets throughout the world mourning his assassination and calling for revenge, frankly. And, you know, from Pakistan and parts of Africa, all the way back to Iran and Iraq and Lebanon. He was a very rich figure politically. He came to power as the supreme leader in 1989, I think, after the passing of Ayatollah Khomeini. But prior to that, he was the president of Iran. He fought in the Iran-Iraq war. He I think he got injured somehow and he lost his arm. It was I think it became paralyzed. And so he had to learn to use his other hand. He was a very, very eloquent reader and speaker of Arabic in addition to Persian. And if you listen to his Arabic, it's like immaculate. It's beautiful. But I think more importantly, for our purposes, he was a true anti-imperialist revolutionary. He stood alongside all the great leaders, the anti-imperialist leaders of the world, from Fidel to... I'm sorry, Fidel to Mugabe to Mandela. I know Mandela has a mixed reputation, but, you know, Mandela, his last state visit before he became a supreme leader was to China. He sat with Thomas Sankara. We just found an image of that today. It's just, you know, Castro. I'm sorry, not Castro. I'm a little ill. I'm so sorry.

Navid Farnia: I'm struggling. I'm recovering from a stomach illness. So I'm a little off my game.

Nina Farnia: Chavez, Maduro, et cetera. And so he should be remembered in this light. And I think a lot of the diaspora figures in our community are going to try to complicate his legacy and present him as a repressive or vile or evil force. But the fact of the matter is that he was truly an anti-imperialist. And as a politician, as a figure in the region, as a political figure in the region and in Edan, he was brilliant. He was a brilliant politician. He was able to moderate and hold various political forces and factions and parties and not just maintain stability, but create stability and create strength out of that. And that is a tool that not a lot of politicians and political figures have, right? To bring different forces and different interests together and create strength out of it was something that he did very, very well. He was also a very, very close mentor of Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah, who tragically was assassinated a few years ago, a year and a half ago. And if there's an interview... that they conduct of Sayyid Nasrallah that's posted on Khamenei's website and it's an excellent interview it's like I think it's it might be multiple parts I'm not I can't remember but where he talks about there was there were particular points in the evolution of Hezbollah from from the beginning where they really struggled right like any

Adnan Husain: sort of political movement does.

Nina Farnia: And when they went to Khamenei, he not only provided calm and patience, he also provided sort of a strategic acumen that, according to Seyyed Nasrallah, was rare. And so you can imagine, right, when somebody like Nasrallah is saying that this kind of strategic acumen is rare, it must be very, very rare. And so it's really, really a tragic, tragic loss for the resistance, for the region, and I think for the world and for the sort of anti-imperialist struggle. That being said, Edan is not, you know, Edan is not made up of one man or one figure. Edan is a deep, deep state with a strong constitution and laws. You know, it's not like, you know, the jungle that people think it is. And so, you know, Edan will be fine. In fact, Edan seems to be out on top right now in terms of this struggle against this war against the most powerful, vile empire in world history. So even though it's a significant loss, Edan is going to recover from it and his shoes will be filled.

Adnan Husain: Yeah, definitely that continuity is going to be very important. I think also maybe one component might be interesting is that maybe the imperialists in the end will rule. the martyrdom of the supreme leader, Ayatollah Khamenei, because part of that political skill that you were talking about of being able to hold together many different political orientations, parties, factions, interests within Iranian society was that he managed also to still, despite a lot of an increasing, you might say, interest and desire for a policy of nuclear resistance. consistently that weapons of mass destruction are against Islam and his interpretation with his kind of judicial, juridical opinion. And a different leader may respond differently, especially in these circumstances. So they may really rue the martyrdom of Ayatollah Khamenei. Because as you say, Iran is going to be fine, but it also might respond, as you just said, there are people in the streets around the world mourning, demonstrating, and politically very motivated by this loss at a religious, spiritual, political level. But Navid, I wondered if you had any other additional kind of thoughts or observations about it. And one thing that I want to put on the table here that maybe you might respond to is that You know, Nina already mentioned that, you know, members of the diaspora who are hostile to the Islamic Republic, you know, may try to tarnish or complicate, confuse, you know, about how really to understand. And they, you know, will present these kind of ideas of him as a ruthless, brutal, oppressive dictator and try and make that the signal kind of understanding of him. And they're already attempting to do that. but i think one thing that concerns me a bit more and for this kind of an audience is that there are also a lot of people we would regard as allies in the anti-imperialist struggle kind of dimension of it um who you know are are expressing mixed or reserved or ambivalent you know kind of feelings about you know uh khamenei um I'm wondering, you know, what kind of analysis or response you might have to that within the movement of the left and pro-Palestine, of people not really recognizing, unlike, and we could read, unlike the statements from Al-Qassam brigades, unlike the PFLP, okay? They don't like Hamas and they don't like Islam. claim that they want to pick their resistance group. Well, we picked the PFLP. Well, the PFLP came out with a beautiful statement honoring the sacrifice and the legacy of Ayatollah Khamenei. So I'm just wondering what else you might want to say about this situation.

Navid Farnia: Yes, thank you for the question. So first of all, like Nina, I just want to offer my condolences to the Iranian nation and to the Shia world. And I also want to offer my condolences specifically to the Iranian people and those families who lost their loved ones, particularly children martyred in schools, volleyball players martyred, so on and so forth. So I think my response, Adnan, to your answer would start with one of the things that Khamenei and before him Khomeini really emphasized was this notion of self-reliance and self-determination, the ability to be able to support yourself as a nation in the midst of imperialist siege and sanctions and encirclement. And so like the ballistic missile system, for instance, owes itself to the leadership of the Islamic Republic. The, you know, the nuclear sovereignty owes itself to the leadership of the Islamic Republic. And so, you know, those who classify themselves as anti-imperialists, who perhaps talk about Marxism in theory, right? If you really want to think about Marxism, Marxist Leninism in practice, then one of the fundamental underlying bases for Marxist-Leninism is self-reliance, is self-sufficiency. If you cannot support yourself, you cannot hope to defend yourself against imperialism. And what we're seeing right now is that Iran is defending itself against imperialism. And so that is a reflection of the reality of the resilience and ingenuity that arises from 47 years, over 40 years of sanctions, of being denied access to perhaps weapons and other things on the global market. So early on in the Islamic Republic, You know, one of the things that Iran did was they received weapons, you know, during their eight year war against Iraq, they received weapons from Libya, Gaddafi, which Nina forgot to mention, but you know, forgive me. Yeah, Libya and DPRK, right? And rather than, you know, like immediately deploying those weapons, they would take one or two weapons and reverse engineer them to figure out how they work in order to develop a program. Right. And so over time, they developed this ballistic, robust ballistic missile program based on basically from scratch. right and so that you know that has to start from a basis of self-reliance and self-determination right um rather than simply um you know preserving themselves in the early years right they were actually building they're they're in engaging in a nation building project right the emphasis on education, right? All these, you know, all these scientists that we've seen martyred, right? Like why are they martyring these scientists? Because they are a reflection of the self-reliance, right? And so, you know, all of these things speak to, you know, what this, you know, so-called anti-imperialist left, like if they actually believe in anti-imperialism, then they must start with an emphasis on self-reliance and self-determination, right? I have more to say about that, but like, you know, I guess I can stop there.

Nina Farnia: Thank you.

Adnan Husain: an excellent kind of, you know, point that really, you know, gives us a lot of context and background as well on like, you know, what's at stake here, you know? I mean, you know, this is, why is this happening? Like, you know, we look at the politics of how this war has been announced and rationalized and there's a confusing array of moving justifications that of course have never been properly presented. to the American people in Congress or, you know, But really what it comes down to is that Iran is a sovereign nation that refuses to bow to imperial hegemony, and that it, as a consequence, poses a challenge to Israel's supremacist idea that it must be an unchallenged hegemon in this region. And for that reason, and because they have not and have never abandoned the Palestinian cause, They are subject to decades of sanctions, attempts at subversion, constant demonization, and now we're seeing a second round, a much more substantial one, of attack and invasion attempting to destroy it. And that also relates to, I think, the question of what are the goals of this military venture? A lot of people characterize it as regime change. I'm not sure that... encompasses the full scope of what's being contemplated, although I think there might be differences, slight differences between, say, US goals, if they can even you know, formulate and articulate them. And, you know, what the Zionist entities real kind of stake here is. I'm wondering if maybe we could talk a little bit about that, about that kind of question of like what's at stake and why, you know, I've seen Nina posting and in your interview, why this is really about a much broader global question than it is just a local matter of a dispute or conflict between, you know, the U.S. and Israel and Iran, right? So maybe each of you could take what you think is really, you know, for the world in this question.

Navid Farnia: Nina, go ahead.

Nina Farnia: um ladies first huh so if one of you is older maybe that's what's going on here deferral of the younger sibling to the oh yeah see okay he's respecting his older sis big sis he's being polite um uh so it i i guess i'll start with the part about israel and zionism um I've historically, in my work and even in these podcasts and whatnot, I've always called it a proxy of the United States. But I've been reflecting on this lately, that even that is incorrect, that really it's just a military base. and garrison for US imperialism and US, first European and then US imperialism. And so it's not, Israel is not running the show here. A lot of people think that sort of Israel dragged the US into this war, that the US didn't want it, et cetera, et cetera. That is not what's happening. Israel is perhaps the most important garrison or military base or proxy of U.S. imperialism in the world today. It causes immense violence not only in our region but it it has also caused immense violence in africa and central and south america and continues to do so through collaborate through network collaborative networks um and fun you know fun funding all kinds of violence like the contras in nicaragua etc so Getting rid of Israel and getting rid of this military base, this genocidal entity, is really for anti-imperialists and anti-imperialist states in particular an existential matter. It's not just an existential matter for Edan. And so when I say that this is... the defeat of Israel or the defeat of U.S. imperialism in our region will be a massive victory for the Global South or the subjugated peoples of the world that have been subjugated by U.S. imperialism. That's what I mean. If they lose this, If the US loses this war, and it's looking like it might, it will be an incredible defeat in the Eastern Hemisphere for sure. We've already seen attempts of the US to try to re-secure, quote unquote, the core, the Western Hemisphere. That's why it's doing what it's doing to Cuba, Venezuela, et cetera. and all these sort of election interference operations throughout South America and Central America. But this is a result of strategic defeats that it has suffered in the eastern hemisphere, in large part because of the work of Iran. Also, Russia, China, the rising alliance of Sahel states is really important here. The war in Sudan is really important here. But Iran is central. Iran is actually central in all of those entities that I just mentioned. Iran is a key player. is a key supporter of the alliance of Sahel states, of the Sudanese people against the UAE-backed forces, of Russia against the NATO invasion, of China. So it's really not just an existential matter for Iran, it's an existential matter for anti-imperialism in general. And then maybe I'll let Navid respond, and then I want to talk about... the war itself and what this means for Iran and where I think it's heading.

Navid Farnia: I want to talk about it specifically from the US perspective. I'll start with two points, one historical and one contemporary. If you study the writings of revolutionaries, those who were engaged in guerrilla warfare, for instance, One of the things that they always emphasize was the emphasis on protracted and prolonged struggle, that you cannot defeat an empire in one fell swoop. You have to wear them down over time because they're militarily stronger than you. And so you have to destroy their will, and you have to destroy their morale, and then also drain their economic resources. by overstretching them and these kinds of things, right? The Vietnamese were experts at this. This is how they defeated the United States, right? And one of the things that General Vo Nguyen Giap, he talked about was the accumulation of thousands of small victories, right? And that's something that I hold to all the time, the accumulation of thousands of small victories. It's not gonna happen just in one thing, right? And it's going to take time and these victories have to be accumulated. So the second thing is, our colleague Toussaint Lossiere wrote an article on the 12 day war, but also talking, the title of the article is called Pursuing a Third World War in Pieces. And so in the article, he talks about U.S. grand strategy. And one of the things that U.S. strategists like national security folks talk about is this notion of strategic sequencing, that the United States cannot hope to wage all these wars against all these countries at the same time. It just doesn't have the resources and it's overstretched and it's over capacity. And so it tries to get it like has tries to get these have these short wars with various countries, get in and get out and weaken them over time. and then move on to the next focus, right? And ultimately, the major focus is China, right? And so we've seen this play out, like all these small and short wars that the Trump government has tried to pursue, right? And the reality, and of course, the major exception to all this is Russia and Ukraine, like the attack on Russia, because the Russians, they're winning that war and they refuse to engage in a ceasefire at this point, right? So if you're like a revolutionary and you're thinking about this, or if you're an anti-imperialist and you're thinking about this, what is the proper strategy to pursue against this force? And one of the things that the Iranians have been clear about is the necessity of waging a war of attrition against the imperialists, against the United States and against the Zionist regime. The Palestinian resistance has said this as well, like in Gaza, right? We're waging a war of attrition. So they so clearly they have a strategy and then they're implementing it. Right. And they know how to defeat U.S. imperialism. Now, if you think about like yesterday, you know, like even like even like, you know, middle of the night when when the middle of our night, when the U.S. and the Zionists attacked Iran, one of the initial reports were like, you know, this is going to take four days. The operation is going to take four days and it'll be over. Right. You know, that happened, you know, the news of the assassination of Khamenei, you know, came out and, you know, and there was reports yesterday that Trump offered a ceasefire to Iran and Iran immediately rejected. And now he's saying that, you know, I have the now he's saying, you know, it can be I can take it short or I can take it long. I can take it. I can do a short war, a long war. Right. Like, so he's changed his tune immediately. Right. And now the most recent report I read in the Daily Mail. An interview that he did with the Daily Mail was that it will take four weeks, right? So we went from four days to four weeks within the span of two days. I mean, the four-day limit has not even been reached yet, right? This is what the Iranian resistance has imposed on the United States, right? The initiative lays with Iran, and they'll decide when the war will end. It's not in the U.S.'s hands anymore.

Adnan Husain: Yeah, interesting, very interesting suggestions there. And it reminds me, I did, you know, I thought yesterday when I was on a different kind of conversation, I said I would be really delighted. uh latin american countries took this opportunity to try and break the siege of cuba uh if china thought this was a nice opportune moment maybe to reunify with taiwan you know i mean But there's also an opportunity in some ways for, you know, the U.S. is tied up in something that it does not understand how long and how grueling it could be in this war of attrition with Iran. That is going to sap the empire's strength and, you know, maybe great opportunity for, you know, other global south countries. Theaters to open up the two, three, many Vietnams kind of situation, which is often talked about as how we bring the war home and back into the imperial core. But also, if there were two, three Vietnams, this empire would really teeter. But at any rate, I wanted to come, Nina, you said you wanted to talk about the course of the war and its consequences for Iran. I think this is a good chance to do that. I mean, because we are, if it is a war of war, prepared and has conceptualized this but you know that has its own consequences and rhythm and you know we need to understand and analyze you know what are the consequences of it if we're to also be prepared and understand how we can show solidarity, you know, over the course of this process. So, you know, what did you want to say about how this war is shaping Iran or Iran's experience?

Nina Farnia: I think it's been made clear that over the basically since Al-Aqsa flood, acutely clear, though prior to that, it was always clear that the US is relentless and tenacious in its desire to destroy Iran. And it's not just about toppling the Islamic Republic. So that is part of the goal. But it's actually about destroying the Iranian nation, balkanizing it, removing it from the planet. It may turn out to be something, you know, if it were to occur, it may turn out to be something like Syria, which is sort of informally partitioned. Or it could be a situation like Yugoslavia, where Yugoslavia was just basically disappeared from the planet. But either way, that is the aspiration. They've made that clear. And the Iranians have always known this. There's an interview from the 80s, I think when Khamenei was president, I think with 60 Minutes, where he says the United States is our primary enemy. So they've known this for decades. They're very clear about this. But it became acutely clear after Al-Aqsa flood was launched by the Palestinians. that now is the time, the time has come where the coexistence between the forces of imperialism and the forces of anti-imperialism in the region is no longer possible. So what this means for Edan is that there's a bit of a clock, right? And they know that if they don't go first and go hard, the Americans will continue to try to get them and try to undermine them. knowing how weak the americans are right now the missile defenses all the like issues with weapons manufacturing the missile defenses um the war in ukraine the domestic problems like oh there's like so many problems right the economic problems the tariff wars um that for the Iranians, this is a great time. It's a great time to sort of go in and go hard. So it doesn't look to me, and I could be wrong, I could be entirely wrong, but at this stage, it does not look like it's going to be another, you know, one week or two week war. I believe that, based on the objective conditions right now and the strength with which Iran has entered the field, that we could be looking at something larger and more significant from a world historical perspective. And if you listen to the rhetoric from the Iranians, There is absolutely no discussion, as Navid said, there is no discussion of ceasing. There's none. In fact, their actions demonstrate that they're looking to end the presence of the United States in the region. That is what their actions demonstrate. They even hit when you, I know Nabi's going to talk about this in a minute, but in the UAE, they hit the airports. The Iranian generally don't like to hit civilian infrastructure. That is not something they like to do. But in the UAE, they hit the airports. Why? Because they don't want all those US officials and CIA agents and God knows what else that's there to flee. So it looks like it's going to be pretty serious. Now, things can change very quickly. We know that. With the Iranians, they have made decisions in the past that it's difficult to understand when you're on the outside. The Americans certainly retreat very quickly or advance very quickly. They've become increasingly unpredictable. But based on the objective conditions now, and what we are seeing now in the battlefield, the multiple battlefields, it looks like this might be an incredibly significant moment for the world. And situating the loss of Ayatollah Khamenei in this, is I think particularly powerful because if his loss is sort of wrapped up in or shrouded by the defeat of US imperialism in Western Asia, the decisive defeat of US imperialism in Western Asia, that is precisely how he wanted to go. It is precisely how he wanted to go.

Adnan Husain: Absolutely. Be a martyr in Ramadan, truly having, you know, contributed to the defense of his, you know, country and also to the liberation struggle for the world. Yes, absolutely. I mean, what could be a better way? legacy in a better way to go this is the thing that you know they don't understand you know they think these decapitation strikes and i don't know why they haven't learned you know dealing with the resistance you know that the decapitation strikes don't so-called i mean that's assassination i mean let's you know not use their term assassinations, they can have a real boomerang effect as we were talking about before, but also they don't have the effect that they think that it should have because the, you know, resistance doesn't operate the way who are narcissistic self-aggrandizement or kind of power and fame. I mean, they don't have the same motivations and the same worldview that would mean that this is somehow the individual's loss is so destabilizing because they are committed to a collective liberation and a collective future. And that seems to be something that's just not grasped in this. But Navid, you know, you might want to come in on this, but also I was thinking, you know, Nina did mention the attacks on the UAE. And of course, we know the Straits of Hormuz have been, you know, blocked now. You know, one thing I've been thinking about is also with these airports and flights, you know, not being possible for these Gulf statelets. kind of artificial family dynasties that, you know, were created by, you know, colonialism to sequester as much of the oil resources from the populations that they should be serving and, you know, supporting. That like, you know, how long can a UAE, you know, if they can't import oil, and everything that they are normally you know kind of required to have and also what are the supply lines on the you know kind of interior overland routes i mean to where you know like where are you going to get all this stuff from right now with war you know your israeli ports are also you know cut off for the mediterranean They're not going to come through the Suez and around Bab al-Mandab because the Ansar Allah said that they will kind of restrict. So I mean, I'm wondering how you think, what do you think the regional kind of consequences of this context of what Nina said is the project of removing the US from here. So like these bases, like to make them unviable. So how do you see the regional kind of Do you have anything to maybe it does damage to have hit some civilian infrastructure there, but also, you know, just because, you know, you know, you can kind of, you know, really portray this as a US, Israel, Iran, but if you widen it, then are you undermining somehow the legitimacy of it? You know, what do you think is the way to look at this?

Navid Farnia: Yeah, so before I answer that question, I actually want to talk a little bit more about the Supreme Leader and building on something that Nina said. So I think that my read of the situation is that the United States made a serious strategic miscalculation with the assassination of the Supreme Leader Khamenei. You know, they, I think they assessed from the 12-day war that if they assassinate a bunch of leaders, it will paralyze the state and lead to chaos, right? But if we think about the way that Khamenei was assassinated, he was not in a bunker. He was in his home. And so clearly, this is someone who is, one, not afraid of the potential of being assassinated, two, especially knowing that the Zionists and the imperialists have talked about this openly. And they even attempted it in the 12-day war. And the other aspect of it is that it did not lead to the kind of paralysis that the United States calculated, that the Zionists calculated, right? And that shows that they were prepared for this exact kind of scenario, right? And so all of this to say that, you know, like, you know, the U.S. can say, like, and Trump can say whatever he wants about, like, they were defenseless against our attack, there was nothing they could have done, you know, like, he was not hiding in hiding, right? And so what, as you mentioned, Adnan, like, the boomerang effect or the, you know, like, the sort of the repercussions and reverberations are massive, and this leads to the regional aspect, right? the Iranians said before this round of escalation began, that if you do escalate, this is going to be one, a prolonged war, which we talked about before, but two, a regional war. And the implications were that Ansar Allah and Hezbollah would come in and the popular mobilization forces in Iraq would come in, and certainly the Iraqi resistance is activated. But Hezbollah And Ansar Allah have not activated yet. I mean, we'll see if they do or not, you know, but like Iran is holding the line by itself. It's basically right. And so, you know, so something else that Nina said, right, like they're targeting airports in UAE and Kuwait and Bahrain. Right. Like they're in Iraq as well and occupied, occupied regions of Iraq. At the same time, they're targeting hotels where U.S. officials and soldiers are staying because they can't get out of the countries, right? And so to me, that actually seems to be a psychological operation in and of itself, saying that, okay, you want to be here, then you'll see what it's like. This is what it's like to be here, right? This is going to be your life in the region. Right. And so there's that aspect of it. There's also the aspect of it that in the UAE, it's not just military targets. It's not just, you know, and it's not just locations that are that are that are housing US troops and officials, but it's also economic targets. It's also U.S. and Zionist strategic targets, political targets and economic targets within the UAE. And so the Iranians have clear intelligence on all of the interests of the Zionist imperialists in the region, and they're going to attack. And to what Nina said, these attacks indicate that they're trying to get them out of the region, period. the closing of Hormoz, right? Like, you know, let's keep in mind that Trump, when he engages in these kinds of operations, as he did in Venezuela, right? It happened late on a Friday night. Same thing with this, with Iran, happened late on a Friday night. The impulse being that by Monday, things will be resolved and the markets will be, will, you know- Venezuela was Saturday, just to be clear. Saturday morning, Saturday was like at 1.15 a.m., right? Anyway, so anyway. But like, so, you know, thanks for like, you know, interrupting my train of thought. So.

Nina Farnia: This is what happens when you bring siblings on, Adna.

Adnan Husain: This is going to be fascinating for the audience. They're going to love this like back and forth. It adds another dimension. So it's good. It's good.

Navid Farnia: So, you know, like so clearly the U.S. calculated that that things would be resolved by the end of the, you know, like by within a few days at the very most. And economically, the markets would not be affected by it. Right. And again, it shows that Iran holds the cards. Right. It has closed Hormoz. It has targeted tankers, three of them today. Right. Three of them today alone. Right. And it has enforced that, enforced the closure. All of this has also caused major like logistical problems and, you know, again, financial and economic problems for companies operating in the UAE. Like I read an article about how like Amazon services are being affected in UAE right now. And like if the UAE continues to be targeted, like other US investments, like Microsoft has a $16 billion investment in UAE, those will be affected as well. Tourism, all these things, right? And so if you're, again, to come back to your first question, Adnan, like in terms of like, you know, anti-imperialist and you're like in Marxist, you know, Marxist, right? Like, Iran is attacking capital. Like, it's attacking capital and capital flows. And so if you're a true anti-imperialist and anti-capitalist, you will see that, right? Regardless of what you think of the Iranian government, you will see that and you will side with the right side, right? And, you know, there's no in-between. There's no in-between.

Adnan Husain: Well, that's certainly true that we're in this kind of moment where it really is a confrontation of systemic, you know, well, networks, you know, on one side, the Epstein class, Epstein empire. We've got on the other side, you know, axis of resistance and global south kind of belt and road, you know, versus this Indian empire. kind of like network that they're trying to you know create so this really iran is really at the heart of basically these systemic confrontations you know that we're seeing that's why it has as nina said world historical kind of importance in in in this way um I'm wondering if maybe we could talk a little bit also about the politics of the US here. We've mentioned a few things, but both of you think about the relationship between racism, fascism, domestically, and imperialism. you know, US empire abroad. And maybe it's also connected to, you know, I think the imperial core that I also want to talk about. We had a couple of questions, people asking like, well, you know, what can we do? You know, what are the campaigns we can be involved with and so on. And my, you know, kind of question, one question I would have is why are the protests so over this so muted, you know, and that there's a lot of division. What do you put it down to? And what are some of the antidotes? Obviously, some part of it is getting a better understanding and clarifying the issues and why there's such huge stakes involved. But, you know, like to reflect on that, I mean, my own feeling is that there's also a bit of latent Islamophobia on some components of the kind of marxist secular or whatever left and um but that's also the case with the iranian diaspora that's just like so utterly islamophobic so yeah you know um i protests you know i'm not in a big city to go and attend a large march or anything like that but i watched around and saw there were people in new york answer coalition was doing things there were some in montreal and so forth but You know, how do you analyze like politics domestically of opposition to this war?

Nina Farnia: So I definitely agree with you, Adnan, that a dimension, a significant dimension of it is Islamophobia and also sort of anti-Iran hostility or hatred specifically. I want to preface these comments by saying that uh i think following the sort of strength of the palestine solidarity move the latest uh iteration right of the strength of the palestine solidarity movement the last few years um uh you know everybody wonders or has maybe even has an expectation well why why is it hasn't this happened for venezuela for example and then now for And, you know, for those folks that are older, when Iraq was invaded in 2003, there was on February 13th, 2003, there was an International Day of Action where millions poured into the streets throughout the world. against that war. The war launched five weeks later, the US launched that war five weeks later, and here we are today, right? But with regard to Palestine, I will say that the student encampments and the Palestine movement that we just experienced was the result of decades of very intensive work by the Palestinians in the United States in coordination with Palestinians and Arabs in the region. And so that sort of energy has to be situated historically. And it's never, like, I mean, I'm sorry to say this, but it's never going to happen for Iran. We're never going to see encampments on universities across the country for Iran, right? And it is precisely because there is no Iranian anti-imperialist movement in the United States to create that kind of organization and historical movement to create that kind of organization and energy. There was prior to the revolution, right? And that is really what drove a lot of the work that led to the revolution and sort of embodied the revolutionary struggle in many ways but that is gone now and and the iranian um community here is dominated by um i mean everybody knows right it's like and somebody tweeted this i don't somebody i don't even know but this tweet really went viral she was like um please God, keep me away from the worst diaspora in the world, both in real life and digitally. I'm sorry, I don't know who said this, but I mean, that's our diaspora, right? Like random people are saying they want nothing to do with us because our people are so vicious and malign. So that's part of it. But that's sort of to be expected. There's a more sort of pernicious aspect of it, which is that there's this class of people, largely intellectuals and scholars and activists also, who want to take this position of being anti-war and anti-repression, anti-state repression. And they're still holding that position. And when we told them a month ago or two months ago, these two things cannot be true at once, right? Like this completely removes dialectical analysis, dialectical historical analysis and contingency and all the things that we know, methods of analysis that we know to be the best. When you like sort of collapse US imperialism and state repression into this like fold of ambiguity, you're creating opportunities for empire, quite literal opportunities for empire, right? I mean, we're talking about like, I'm talking literally and I can name examples. I can name examples, but they don't care. They don't care. And I think the reason they don't care is because they want to see the end of the Islamic Republic. They don't want the bombs to drop on their, they don't want the empire's bombs to drop on their families, right? I mean, well, I'd hope so. But they want to see the end of the Islamic Republic. And they have confused us into believing that they're anti-imperialists, but they're not actually. Because if they were, they wouldn't have been saying these things after Mossad was running the streets of Tehran or after the 12-day war. They were still saying these things after the 12-day war, knowing that we are now in a protracted state of struggle for the very existence of Iran as a nation. They were still saying these things. So it's definitely Islamophobia. It's definitely anti-Iran hostility and hatred. I also want to add though that part of what makes that Islamophobia and anti-Iran hostility and racism in general is part of what's creating, is what's motivating the U.S. right now too, to think that if we, on the topic of the decapitation strikes, if we kill their leaders, if we remove Maduro, if we remove Khamenei, et cetera, et cetera, these projects are gone. They think that we don't have any depth, that we're incapable of having political or strategic or historical depth. And that has played out to our advantage. And it's bizarre that they think that. Because the US and Europe have only been in power for like 600 years, right? 700, maybe 1,000 years. But we're the ones that lack depth.

Adnan Husain: Right. Oriental despotism, you know? It's like, well, if you just get rid of the despot, then the society will not know what to do, you know?

Nina Farnia: Yeah. Yeah.

Adnan Husain: Yeah. Yeah, Naveed, did you have anything you wanted to come in on?

Navid Farnia: Yeah, sure. So I also want to take a historical approach to this and really emphasize everything that Nina said I agree with. I also think there's a factor of this, like in terms of the left in the United States, that which would be anti-imperialist and be out on the streets and organizing has experienced systematic destruction basically over the last at least 50 years, like maybe really 70 over but even over seven years. Because I have noted that there is actual solidarity with Iran when you just talk to people or on that kind of level. There's a lot of anger with the ruling class in this country over various things, including Iran. But when it comes to actually organizing, the challenge is the repression. If you think about it, there are no pro, I mean, we can like Venezuela, Iran, we can talk about all that. It is fascinating to me that there's been no protest against all this Epstein stuff. I mean, like, you know, like this, this is their own people, their own families, right? Like, and they can't even organize for that. Right. So like, so the expectation that they would organize for, you know, like for, you know, basically a bunch of, you know, non-white people, you know, like, they don't have the capacity to do that. And those who do have the capacity historically to do that have been systematically repressed on an unprecedented level, right? If we can talk about, like, we can go back to talk about, you know, the leftist organizations of the 1960s, right? The black power movement, the red power movement, so on and so forth, right? These are movements that have been destroyed, mass incarceration, all these kinds of things that lead to the lack of organization and incapacitation that exists today. Given all that, that needs to be rebuilt. I actually do think that there are mechanisms that suggest to me that these things are slowly being rebuilt. But it's not going to happen overnight. Right. Because, you know, like the conditions are increasingly repressive. And so it becomes even tougher to do that. But also, on the other hand, the conditions do dictate that it needs to happen. Right. So like but, you know, it's going to take a while. So with respect to Iran, like. I know the sentiment is there. There was a report that said only 25% of the US population was pro-attacking Iran. It's just a matter of organization and these kinds of things. I agree with Nina with respect to the intellectual class. These people are ideological opportunists and they don't have any sort of... Like we should not place our hopes in these kinds of people for any kind of progressive, let alone radical and revolutionary sentiment and solidarity so.

Adnan Husain: Yeah, that's sort of a hard lesson because they're reading their marks. They're commenting on these issues, principles that you might think are similar or sympathetic. And they also claim that they're not in favor of US empire. But then they also emphasize this whole, but that's not the whole story. And you can't just be reactive to you know, you know, just the opposite of U.S. empire isn't always, you know, like, that's what makes me extremely suspicious when they argue that, you know, you can't just say that the opposite of U.S. empire is, you know, the, okay, so there are some occasions where we're in favor of the U.S., you know, empire. It's outrageous, you know, but they, you know, they have a lot of influence in confusing, you know, the issues here. And, you know, It also reminds, you know, this theocratic Islamic Republic, you know, crushed the left and, you know, oppressed the left. And, you know, there's even suggestions, people are saying that in order for there not to be a political alternative to, you know, current, you know, holders of power that the Israelis are actually also assassinating and targeting, you know, leftists in Iran. And, you know, we have a question here. Is there a socialist movement in Iran, maybe underground? Well, so I guess my question here is, you know, how would you kind of frame, you know, what sometimes people say, well, we should just be in solidarity with workers. We shouldn't identify or affiliate or support like this government that is repressive and, you know, targeting, you know, leftists and suppress, you know, political rights and so on, which is, you know, they want to evacuate the fact that you know, while there were large, you know, left, you know, forces, like there is also a religious component to many of the people, I mean, you know, who were important for the struggle. So how do you kind of parse these kinds of questions about true left and so on when it comes to thinking about Iranian society and politics and how we should identify with them? There's always this, we identify with the Iranian people or with workers, but not this layer of the theocratic regime. That's how it's framed. How do you respond to that?

Nina Farnia: I think, just to put it simply first, is that eliminating the Iranian state does not help Iranian workers. I think this should be intuitive. Eliminating the state apparatus, eliminating the welfare state, forcing the state to spend its resources on self-defense instead of on subsidies and healthcare and education, etc. That is not good for the Iranian workers or the Iranian or the women of Iran or the children of Iran, etc. So this idea that there's a distinction between the people of Iran and the state that upholds the nation is just it's like it's ridiculous. It's just it's just ridiculous. In terms of the. how to think about the Islamic Republic or how to think about left and right and liberal, et cetera, in Iran, you can't transpose our notions of the political left or the political right or the liberal class onto Iran. You can't cut and paste it neatly onto Iran because it's a very, very different political space. So within the Islamic Republic, there are, and I'm talking about the state now, within the Islamic Republic, there are people and factions that call themselves left and are viewed as the left. And there are factions that are viewed as moderates. And there are factions that are viewed as right. And again, they're not, they don't transpose cleanly. They can't be, you know, we can't, our views of that in the West are different than how those are identified there. But like, for example, Ayatollah Khamenei he's sometimes viewed as a more moderate figure, right? Because he was trying to hold space or build unity amongst the various political factions. But he was also very respected by the socialist and communist forces. And some of them, not all of them. And his analysis of anti-imperialism and capitalism was, you know, like, paradigmatically Marxist-Leninist, right? And the practice, and Navi talked about this, the practice, what we're seeing now, the praxis of the Iranian state right now is anti-capitalist and anti-imperialist in motion we are seeing decolonization and anti-imperialism and anti-capitalism in motion right now in the region so i i would urge our listeners who are concerned about workers or socialists or women etc to just think a little just think a little bit differently about what those categories mean in a different context um because in a society that is overwhelmingly islamic right and that truly they're believers it's a society of belief and i'm saying this as somebody who's not a believer i'm not a believer but i can tell you with certainty adnan you were just there they are believers Um, that doesn't mean that they don't have, like, they don't believe in economic equity or social justice or whatever. Right. Which is, those are all things built into the constitution by the way. Um, but it just looks different. It looks different than what we're taught to think of those things in the West. I'm sure Navid has, cause you, yeah.

Navid Farnia: Go ahead. I mean, I don't really have anything to add on that one. I mean, I think, again, like, just to emphasize the point that, like, what, you know, like Nina said, like, what is happening in the region right now? Like, the region having ownership over its own resources, right? Like, what is more, you know, like, if you want to establish the, even like talk about establishing the conditions for socialism, right? have to have national liberation like you have to have like you know control over your own land and resources right and so the preconditions for all these things that folks want to talk about like you know like you know with respect to the region with respect to the fact that all these countries are occupied with respect to the fact that iran is encircled right and cannot engage i mean you can even if it wanted to cannot engage in the global market because of sanctions right All of these realities are tied to the fact that what Iran is doing is actually in service of a Marxist-Leninist analysis and view of the world. Let me also add that one of the greatest misnomers about Marxist-Leninism is that it is overly dogmatic and that it has this worldwide view that everything must happen in this particular way everywhere in the world. Right. But, you know, anti-imperialist writers and revolutionaries, folks like Walter Rodney talked about and Lenin himself talked about how the application of Marxism looks different in different places. Right. And so, you know, it's not going to look the same, as Nina pointed out, in Iran as it is going to look in Western Europe, which is where a lot of these people get their analysis of what Marxism should look like. Right. Marx himself said that a lot of what he was talking about was based on an analysis of what was happening in Western Europe at the time. And so I don't mean to bring all that historical stuff into this discussion, but there's a misunderstanding of what Marxist Leninism is in the first place. And, you know, the reality is that Marxist-Leninism is fundamentally, as Nina said, based on dialectical and historical materials. And we have to start there because then we start to think about historical and geographical context, right, and these kinds of things. So, yeah.

Adnan Husain: Yeah, no, very helpful. They were talking about never, you know, ever, you know, organized around the demand to end sanctions, you know, either these diaspora people or these others who now have so much, you know, antipathy for, you know, the theocratic Islamic Republic of Iran, you know. a point um uh navid zarinal who i from the colony archive who i interviewed last week you know he made the point that you know we would have had a very different um kind of trajectory obviously 1953 and the overthrow of Mossadegh by CIA, etc., a different trajectory for Iran's sovereign development. If it hadn't been under these sanctions and constantly every attempt by the so-called reformists to have diplomacy and reach out and make concessions being even rebuffed, we would have, you know, had a different kind of trajectory and we would have had, you know, social forces within Iran being able to deal with, you know, these kinds of questions. What do we want to allocate for this? And, doing so by this repressive world system under empire right so i think um that's kind of a key point to that so the history is going to be different and consequently the pathways and opportunities and for liberation and how it develops those are going to take different and the eurocentrism of the big kind of barrier to genuine solidarity as a consequence of not recognizing these other histories you don't have to be taken into account you would formulate your theory a little bit differently you know uh you know if you did that so i think that's really helpful um can i jump in really quick 15 minutes or so um so i just wanted to kind of see if there were any other kind of really you know okay can i jump in really quick yeah go ahead i think the other thing too is that um you know iran has operationalized

Navid Farnia: a sense of internationalism that is more in line with the Marxist-Leninist tradition than any of these folks who criticize Iran have. They talk about internationalism in the abstract. Iran has been there with respect to Venezuela. Iran has established relations with the alliance of Sahel states. Iran has good relations with the DPRK, has been a recipient of support from DPRK and the DPRK's own internationalism. from Libya under Gaddafi with Libya's own internationalism, right? And so Iran to this, and right now we're seeing it in like, you asked about the regional question, we're seeing it like in live, like in live motion, what Iran's internationalism looks like with respect to the region, right? The liberation of the region. Again, these people who claim to have this leftist position and then criticize Iran are coming at it from a false ideological perspective that is probably, as Nina pointed out, there's other motivations behind it. Because the reality is that Iran's internationalism is, there are few in the world that can match Iran's record on internationalism.

Nina Farnia: Yeah.

Adnan Husain: That's right. I mean, you know, it's not just when... In Iran, there is like a Stephen Biko, you know, avenue and, you know, like, I mean... Bobby Sands. Bobby Sands. Very good one, isn't he? important building that's on Bobby Sands. Is it the U.S. Embassy? The former U.S. Embassy?

Nina Farnia: I think the U.K. Embassy.

Adnan Husain: The U.K. Embassy. That's right. The U.K. Embassy is on. Absolutely. Of course, why would it be U.S.? It would be the U.K. So that they know that Iran actually identifies with the anti-colonial from the uk so yeah that's right that's right that's that's so you know that's not just window dressing i mean you know malcolm x stamp you know uh was first malcolm x stamp was in iran it wasn't in the u.s like you know like when when when malcolm x was still radioactive to you know american popular cultures before the spike lee film right you know like gives a more cuddly, you know, perspective on that. So, yeah, I think that's, you know, very kind of worth worthwhile for us to remember. Okay, so I was just asking, you know, like, if you had any kind of final kind of advice, especially for this audience about, you you know how do we take up uh you know activism in in the imperial core we've we've tried to clarify that yes you must should be identifying with the iranian project here if you really are you know anti-imperialist and you know marxist but i think i mean i think you know it's just going to take a lot of, you know, patient, slow work of organizing. I mean, you know, nobody really wants to hear that because it's difficult and people are demoralized by the, you know, kind of conditions and facing the dizzying, you know, kind of array of issues, Cuba, Venezuela, Gaza, you know, Iran, like they just, there's no way to get to grips with, with an issue, try and really work on it. They've moved on yet again to another kind of atrocity, another kind of opening up another area of imperial intervention. And then domestically, the Ites, maybe this is some way of how you connect the work of opposing fascism domestically. my colleague on a stream yesterday, you know, said, you know, we've got basically a parallel army of brown shirts that have been established. Funding of, you know, massive funding of ICE to basically create a quasi-private army, but, you know, paid by the state, you know. And so that, you know, we've got like a real kind of issue here, the repression that you were talking about, Naveed. These are the conditions You know, how do you understand what we need to be doing and how we need to be opposing fascism, you know, at home, while also trying to build solidarity against the U.S. empire everywhere else? Tell people what they need to do.

Nina Farnia: Why don't you go first, Navid?

Navid Farnia: No, you should go ahead.

Nina Farnia: I mean, Navid's comments about the Epstein stuff I think are pretty spot on. It's really wonderful when the people here come out against the empire's work, as they did with regard to Palestine and Gaza. But maybe a good starting point is just to focus on what's happening here, because things aren't so great right now here. And it's a wide range, right? There's the Epstein stuff. There are the brown shirts in the streets. Our federal funding for student loans is going down significantly starting with next year, I think, which is going to hit students very, very hard. I mean, there are a whole host of problems. And they're just like rapid. They're like ballooning as we speak. And if the people here try to line up their own government, it's going to help the rest of the world. The other thing is that, and I always do every podcast I have, that the indigenous peoples on this land have active land claims here. And that needs to be recognized. Like the U.S. left and sort of the activist class or whatever needs to recognize that those land claims must be honored. They must be respected. That we are not, none of us are on our land. The Indigenous people have active land claims and the Black people here are entitled to some sort of reparations, ideally land, for slavery. all of the political work here should stem from that reality, right? But Epstein is a great start. The brown shirts are a great start. I mean, there's so many sort of more liberal things to start with.

Navid Farnia: Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, I think I'll just say that Yeah, I mean, internationalism here looks like operating in the interests of the oppressed classes here. And so if there is anti-war protests with respect to Iran, then great. Of course, that's great. But, you know, bear in mind, like, the other aspect of this, right, and I think, Adnan, you're kind of pointing this out as well, is that one of the, like, modus operandi of the Trump government, basically actually borrowing in certain respects from what the Zionists have done, is to break the spirit of the resistance of people, to the point where they don't even feel compelled to resist in any kind of way, given the repercussions of what might happen. Because realistically, that's the only thing they can do. They cannot defeat Iran on the battlefield. They didn't defeat Hamas on the battlefield. And so the only thing they can do is to break the will of the people. Right. And so my thing is to say, you know, don't despair. Right. Like, and I tell this to people all the time. Right. I tell people all the time, if you're thinking about the region, I mean, even today, the resistance is doing well, like the resistance is fine. Right. But what are you going to do about yourself? Like, what are you going to do about like the fact that, you know, police and police and military and paramilitaries are occupying the cities? Right. Like, what's going to be done about that, right? And as you said, like, you have to get organized. People have to get organized. Otherwise, like, you know, it's just going to continue, right? And that's the reality. But do not despair. Like, do the work and realize that once you do the work, like, that's what's going to, like, that, you know, is what they're afraid of the most, right?

Adnan Husain: Yeah, yeah. Well, I do think, you know, that there is something very useful and fruitful about like the Epstein revelations, the way in which, you know, is to see, you know, with a national kind of narrowly national question, we're looking at a network that it crosses. Israel, U.S., the West. Basically, to my mind, it exposes in some sense the integuments of a kind of work across the West. This is also why we see the you know, British, French, and Germans all coming out and towing the U.S. line, you know, on, you know, Iran, Mark Carney, the same, you know, that basically they're part of the same political formation that has, you know, different nodes and so forth. That seems to me very helpful on one level, but also, you know, maybe some of the roots sort of stuff, just demote people. That's not a concrete way in which you can organize around. But now that we're seeing it kind of played out, I mean, I'm hopeful that there are ways to connect, at least to use it to talk about the deeper underlying structural kinds of problems and move to that analysis. Obviously, people want to talk about the lurid sort of components of it. That's an entry point. If it just stays there, it doesn't do much politically. But it's an entry point into exposing the component. And, you know, if we can connect those with left struggles, you know, then maybe we can kind of put some organization to the clear discontent and disillusionment and dissatisfaction and outright hostility to, you know, the rulers, basically, that we have. So, you know, I think that's really helpful remarks from you both about We've been talking about the war in Iran, but when it comes to actually what we might be able to do to change things, we have to pay attention to the communities we're in and what we can do to combat the fascism that sustains. Fascism is just importing the colonial context into the U.S., and that's what it seems like. Minnesota is like an army of occupation in Minnesota. the same kind of thing and oh they're just turning everybody into palestinians so you know you get the we can see those connections but then we can fight and resist in our local environment um how can people like go ahead go ahead navid yeah

Navid Farnia: Yeah, let me just add one quick thing as well. In terms of the connections between the domestic and the global, all you have to do is watch Marco Rubio's speech at the Munich conference. The government is, so yeah, not the Berlin conference, that was a different conference. like the Munich Security Conference, all you have to do is watch that speech to see like, they are making those connections themselves, right? They're talking about like Venezuela in the same vein as they're talking about like, you know, mass migration, quote unquote, right? Like in the crisis of mass migration. that they refer to, right? So they're making those linkages, right? And so it's in the interest of the people to operate again, like based on the material realities that they're living in. And in doing so, they'll make them organically, those connections will be made with resistance movements abroad as well, so.

Adnan Husain: Yeah, that's, I mean, that's really...

Nina Farnia: Somebody in the chat said it was actually the Berlin conference 2.0.

Adnan Husain: Well, it was a plan for another Berlin type. Yeah, let's divide up the world. But it was also a Munich conference in the sense that like, you know, the Nazi party's big sort of first conference. know kind of public success is coming you know in munich but what i tried to liken it in a analysis i did um you know a couple weeks ago uh on three speeches was uh you know to connect it to uh the claremont announcement of the first crusade you know it's basically what it seemed to me and all these people just like saying deus levold giving him a standing ovation to rubio is just like the audience of nobles at clermont who are so inspired by this vision of hands you know uh that they all start shouting god wills it god wills it i mean it's like almost the same kind of thing and that's why i say it's not just a national kind of perspective this is a broader kind of western kind of project of colonial domination uh people can go check that out i talked about uh imperialist crusaders at davos and munich and i put mark carney in there because he belongs in there and he showed his true colors when he came out with his you know statement uh you know uh in favor uh supporting you know illegal crusader war on iran and so you know he's a he's a crusader too so um We're at 90 minutes and you've been generous both with your time. Just want to give you a chance for any kind of final thoughts or words and also where people can learn more, keep following you and anything you want to suggest people check out. Why don't we go ahead with you, Naveed?

Navid Farnia: Um, I mean, I just, again, I just want to emphasize, right. That, that, um, like do not despair. Like the Iranian Iran is going to be okay. Um, Iran is going to be okay. The resistance is showing itself to be fine. Right? Like there is no paralysis of the state. There is no like internal uprising that, that, that the Zionists and the United States are begging for because they want that internal uprising because they know that they cannot send the ground troops themselves. So they want an internal uprising to be the ground troops for them. They want ISIS elements that they unleashed to be the ground troops for them in order to topple the government, which is not going to happen. Right. So like the reality is that the resistance is doing great. It's doing fine despite the losses. Right. And, you know, despite all like, you know, the hits that they've taken, the resistance is going to be OK. And I just emphasize, you know, like the importance of ongoing resistance here and abroad. And in terms of where you can find us, we're part of the Anti-Imperialist Scholars Collective. So you can find our work on anti-imperialist.com. We have a lot of good articles and things like that, and statements and these kinds of things. So yeah, thank you again, Edna.

Adnan Husain: Oh, it was my pleasure. I really enjoyed this. Well, you know, keep up with you or anything you want to say, directing people here in the closing.

Nina Farnia: um just to build on what navi said about the anti-imperialist scholars collective so adnan is actually going to edit a um curate a special issue of our blog i think in the summer early fall i think i think late summer on um islam is liberation theology so we're super super excited about that and adnan's uh viewers and followers should definitely keep your eyes out for that um and then i you know following from that conversation we had about like what to do join an organization Right. And if you feel like there aren't any organizations that you like, just start one, start one in your community or in your neighborhood or whatever. Right. But join an organization and get active. It's time. It's time.

Adnan Husain: very frustrating for me working in my faculty union to get a you know uh pension divestment you know motion through and you know i wanted to go for more and do a full bds and not just our pension so difficult you know painstaking working with We're circulating petitions like, oh, in the first days of the protests, you know, that happening when Iran, when the government had to, you know, cut Internet service and try and suppress the Starlink terminals that are organizing riots and things. circulating petitions about digital rights. Iran has prevented these people. These are the people who are my allies. I have to work with them to get my pension and BDS type motions. It is not easy. I was so fed up For such a long period, but you got to do pushing, you know, set the agenda, you know, be ambitious while realistic, but look forward that you are making a small contribution and a step. in the pathway of liberation and it inspires other people. And you feel most hopeless when you're not doing anything. These are good opportunities for us to bolster one another, to give encouragement, to give that analysis. But if that's all you have, then you are going to get discouraged when you look around at the world. But if you get involved and active in doing something, then you feel more hope and you feel more energy, even though sometimes it is with some people who don't have the same perspective. Samud is something that Palestinians have taught us. Resilience, but more than resilience, is patient, durable, persistent resistance. That's what we want. That's what we need. I want to thank you both for a wonderful conversation, for bringing your light and your analysis to everybody here. Everybody in the chat, fantastic discussions always. We didn't get to as many of your comments and questions. There's a lot to cover, but I so much appreciate the community that's forming here regularly for these. Please share, like, and subscribe to this channel so you find out about Other upcoming, I do have to announce that I have another live stream with Benji and Indica from Resistance is Fertile. And my buddy who I went to Iran with in December, Professor David Yaghoubian, modern Iranian and Middle Eastern history will be, he loves the military stuff. So we'll probably get into, you know, resistance kind of... He's a big fan of John Elmer. And, you know, so that should be another great conversation. That's at 8 p.m. Eastern time, 5 p.m. Pacific. I'm going to have the rest of my Iftar meal and be back with you all hopefully real soon. But until then, peace with justice and solidarity to you all. Bismillah ar-Rahman ar-Rahim.