Dr. Patricia Rodney: Her Own Words

Dr. Patricia Rodney: Good morning, good evening to all the participants. I would like to express my appreciation to Visu Malangu of the Walter Rodney's People's Revolutionary Library, which was inspired by Rodney's ideas and activism, for the invitation to bring greetings from the Rodney family and the Walter Rodney Foundation On the occasion of your teaching entitled Walter Rodney: An Anti-Imperialist Politics Today, to honor the legacy of Walter Rodney, which is being held in partnership with FORGE!, a Pan-African progressive left organization, during June 13th and the 16th, 2022. Walter Rodney was assassinated on June 13th, 1980. At 8:00 p.m. by the Fort Burnham PNC state apparatus. Walter Rodney was 38 years old, a husband and father of 3 young children. Today, 42 years later, the Rodney family continues to seek justice for Walt and his brother Donald, who were in the car with him when he was blown up by an anti-personnel bomb placed into a walkie-talkie by his assassin, Gregory Smith, who was an agent of the government. In 2014, a presidential commission of inquiry was commissioned by President Donald Ramaphosa to investigate the killing of Rodney over a 2-year process. The work of the commission was aborted when the APNU government came into power in 2016.

Dr. Dave Gosse: Thank you.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: However, the commissioners were able to produce a comprehensive report eliminating the involvement of the PNC government and state agencies' involvement in the planned and orchestrated assassination of Walter Rodney. Some recent developments include On June the 10th, 2021, the Attorney General and Minister of Legal Affairs, Anil Nandal, of the current Guyanese government, led by President Ashraf Ali, admitted that it was a state-organized killing and declared to the National Assembly that the government is committed to right this tragic wrong. On June the 4th, 2022, Walter Rodney's tomb and memorial were declared by the National Trust and National Monuments. I'm excited to endorse the event, which continues Rodney's legacy, but would urge the youth and organizations involved that the best way to honor Rodney is by sharing his strategy of groundings for self-emancipation, human rights And justice for people of African descent, working people and the marginalized globally. In using Rodney's framework, you must apply them to your unique circumstances, community and national needs. We should not only honor him on his birthday, March 23rd, 1942, or his assassination, June 30th, 1980. But daily, as we continue our work through public education, organizing and activism. I would like to use one of Rodney's quotes, which I think is pertinent to your teaching over the next 3 days. And I quote, political instability is manifesting itself in Africa as a chronic symptom of the underdevelopment of the political life. Thank you. Within the imperialist context. Military coups have followed one after the other, usually meaning nothing to the mass of the people and sometimes representing a reactionary reversal of the efforts at national liberation. This trend was well exemplified in Latin American history, so that its appearance in neocolonial South Vietnam or in neocolonial Africa is not at all surprising. If economic power is centered outside national African boundaries, then political and military power in any real sense is also centered outside until and unless the masses of peasants and workers are mobilized of an alternative to the system of sham political Independence: How Europe Undeveloped, 1972. I wish you successful teaching and look forward to our continued collaboration. Hungara úk halály széla. Thank you. Good evening, everyone, and thanks for coming. I think this is the first time that I'm speaking mainly Good evening to Guyanese audience, and I want to say thank you for inviting me. There are a couple of people I would like to acknowledge. I want to acknowledge Al Parks. Al knew Walter before I did. They grew up together. Al is in the audience visiting from Germany. I also want to acknowledge Acknowledge some high school friends of mine, and I'm going to call you by your maiden name because my name was Patricia Henry before I became Ronnie. Jazzy Payne, Cicely Wills, please stand so everybody can see you. Kimberly Hansen, and I have to mention Aubrey. Because I knew you when you were trying to tackle— That's not bad. We go back a long way, and it was really nice to catch up, especially with Cicely. I've caught up with Jazzy before. And I also want to acknowledge my host, That's where I've been staying for the last 10 days. For putting up with me for that long. And today we can end it better. I'm supposed to talk about— my theme is supposed to be Walter Rodney, past, present, future. She's got to talk into it. Walter Rodney's legacy. Past, present, and future. It's not enough time for me to cover everything, so I'm going to try to draw a picture for you. This year, Walter Rodney would have been 77 years old.

Professor Vereen Shepherd: Wow.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: I am 77. I'm a month older than him. My daughters used to say I cradle-snatched. Walter never got to see his children grow up. He was assassinated when he was 38 years old. My oldest son, Shaka, was 13, Kanini, 10, and Asha, 8.

Crystal Smith: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: He never got a chance to meet his grandchildren, Asia, Kwesi Anthony, Kai. Kai. Sky. And Apedua. As you know, Walter Rodney was assassinated on a Friday, June 13th, 1980, and I want to start by using a quote from George Lamming. Walter Rodney's legacy is a living example, one that is needed today more than ever. After 34 years, there's finally a commission of inquiry into June 13th, 1980. It is an opportunity to ask ourselves why younger generations know little, if anything, of who Walter Rodney was, And what he stood for. Why copies of his children's books, Kofi Badu: Out of Africa and Lakshmi: Out of India— and there were other plans, there were a series of books— are not available in libraries or schools in Guyana? Whether the things that Rodney fought for have really been achieved today, and what are responsibilities in the face of this remind ourselves why race continues to be an easy bogeyman to trot out? Why is it important to remind ourselves that a commission inquiry is not just about finding out what happened? We must also ask ourselves what it means to ask these questions from the vantage point of our present. And we must strongly resist those who would attempt to attach themselves to his legacy in order to reap narrow political dividends in the present, dividends that have nothing to do with healing, reconciliation, and social and economic transformation, dividends that Rodney ultimately gave his life to oppose. And I'm going to talk about the process of the Commission of Inquiry and also why Rodney was killed. I think Rodney was killed because he was promoting a racial rebuilding, healing of the Guyanese working people, Indian and Black people, and that was dangerous to the state apparatus. After Rodney Walter was killed, there was never an inquiry into his death. In 1988, President Hoyt did an inquest, and the inquest— the result of the inquest said that Rodney died Rodney either died by accident or misadventure. I don't know if you know what misadventure means, but economically what happened was if you have a clause saying misadventure, it means that the insurance company would never pay your life policy, and that's what happened. So we were not only deprived of him and his earning power and his role as a father and husband, but also financially the family has never gotten a life insurance policy. According to the International Commission of Jurists who visited Guyana in 1998, they said, they said, and I quote, That the inquest was marred by grave defects, that the inquest was not a proper inquest done, or else they would not have come up with those conclusions. Again, the family has always called for an inquiry. From the day he was killed, we called for an inquiry. In 1992, under the People's Progressive Party, we again called for an inquest into his death. I spoke myself to the president at that time because I was in Guyana attending an international conference on Walter, and it was agreed that yes, we will have a commission inquiry. By the time I got back to Atlanta, I don't know what happened, but it was squashed.

Hugh Dowse: Hmm.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: In 1992, my son Shakur Rodney did a 1-week hunger strike in Guyana to bring attention to his father's assassination, and I use the word assassination deliberately because he was assassinated. He wasn't murdered, he wasn't killed, he just didn't die. He was assassinated, and the Commission of Inquiry report will prove that. will prove that. Finally, in 2013, I was approached by President Ramaphosa to find out if I was still interested in a commission of inquiry. I said I'd never lost interest. That was always the point. The family needed to know. Right. And so, in 2014, the commission was formed. It took about 6 months to find competent lawyers— not just competent lawyers, but also people who had the time to do a commission of inquiry. It takes a lot of time and research. 3 commissioners were finally selected. Sir Richard Cheltenham, who was the chair of the commission, Mrs. Jacqueline Samuels-Brown, a Jamaican— Sir Richard is Barbadian— and Mr. Sitna Jairam, who is a Trinidadian. I think he's Guyanese-Trinidadian. They were very competent people. They were all Queen's Counsellors. They During the commission, the commission met for about 2 years. They spent time doing the research, compiling, getting in touch with witnesses. They were able to interview 33 witnesses, including myself, and 2 in-camera witnesses. They were able to review what information was available. Quite strange that every document related to Walter Rodney could not be found. It disappeared totally. Somebody said there was a flood and the documents got, but there were no documents available for Rodney during that period when he was harassed, beaten, and finally. Assassinated. The commission concluded its work— well, the government changed, as you know, and the commission of inquiry was aborted. The commissioners were able to, with the evidence they have, produce a report, and the report is available online. And I could give you how to get the report. The report was issued to the government in 2016. The first thing— Guyanese are always polite people. I've heard that throughout the Caribbean. Guyanese are very polite. When the commission was ready to hand over the report to the current president, he was not there to accept it, which is a normal formality. Right. Mm-hmm. That any head of state would do. He was not present. They were told— these are senior people, more senior than he is— to hand over the report to a secretary. The report was handed to a secretary, and they had to leave Guyana very unceremoniously. The report then was passed from different people, and then Finally, the government acknowledged the report. They acknowledged it. They never accepted the report. So the report is somewhere lying on a shelf. The report is quite explicit on who killed Rodney. The report included finding that the actual assassin, Gregory Smith, was not acting alone, but rather was asked and abetted by the Guyana Police Force, the Guyana Defence Force, and the then political directorate in the killing of Dr. Walter Rodney. The commission described the killing as a state-organized assassination with the knowledge of Prime Minister Forbes Burnham, and that's on page 142 of the report. And I encourage people to report, to read the report. What has been distressing for me is that very decent people have remained silent.

Dr. Nicole Plummer: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: And that is how we come to the position we're in. And, you know, when people are talking about President Trump, I have seen that happen in Guyana. What Trump is doing is exactly what Burnham did. And people kept silent. And it's almost like a child. If you give them a foot, they take a yard. Mm-hmm. They check the boundaries. And I saw that happening, and people saw it, but they did nothing about it, either because they benefited from it— I know some people have been scared— but we all have to stand up for truth. Because what do we tell our grandchildren? My little granddaughter, the youngest one, she's 3 years old, and they all ask about their grandfather. Why would somebody kill my granddad? I miss my granddad. Why would somebody just kill him like that? And we have to explain in the simplest terms about what your granddad— the kind of work your granddad was doing.

Dr. Kandia Mitchell-Hall: And I think that's the most important thing.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: doing to help ordinary people seek a better life. So in terms of what we have called for, the family, coming out of the COI report, we have said that the government need to release— officially release the COI report. Mm-hmm. And that's where your role comes in. In terms of pressuring the government, where is the report? Why don't they want to release the report? If they say Burnham didn't kill Rodney, then they should release the report. Why are they hiding it from people? The commission also made a number of recommendations about documentation and how you keep documents. Which is a good recommendation, because documents were terribly kept, and is. If you go to the archives in Guyana, it's terrible, about how records should be kept. Change the manner. We are demanding that the death certificate be changed. It had also on the death certificate that Rodney was unemployed. You didn't employ him, but he wasn't unemployed. His profession couldn't be unemployed. Right. How could you put that on a death certificate? So that's what the death certificate said. One, he was unemployed, profession, and two, that he was— he died by misadventure. Really? So, yeah, change his profession on that death certificate, overturn the conviction of Donald Rodney and expunge any related Criminal history. I don't know how many of you know that Donald was charged. That charge has never been lifted.

Crystal Smith: Hmm.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: The former government wanted to pardon Donald, and Donald said, no, I don't want a pardon. I did not do anything. So, we're calling on the overturned conviction of Donald Rodney. Provide reparations to the Rodney family. And Donald Rodney. Rodney was killed at the highest length of his profession. He was 38 years old. I am 77. Rodney didn't have a pension. Rodney was never sick. So they need to compensate the family in some way or other.

Dr. Nicole Plummer: Aww.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: Provide a truthful account to the people of Guyana. The people of Guyana deserve better. But the people of Guyana have to demand it, right? Provide students and leaders with Rodney's teachings and writings. It's a disgrace that when I go to the continent, anywhere on the continent I go, every single person, whether a farmer, taxi driver, they know Rodney. They had to read How Europe on the development developed as undergraduate students, then most of them said, you know, I thought Rodney was African. And he was. He was, he was, yes, yes. So that is for the commission of inquiry. Next I want to go to what we have done since Rodney's death in terms of the family. And getting— when we— when I left Barbados with my 3 children, Rodney was killed on the 13th. The government refused to release his body because they had put out this news report that an unidentified man had been murdered, because that's how they play They planned it. They planned it so his head would be knocked off. So they put, they put out their own media even before. They dropped a lot of pamphlets outside my house the next morning to say that it's unidentified. So they had to cover themselves. They had to withhold the body. And the body was so badly beginning to decompose, which was deliberate, that I moved it from one funeral parlor to another. And the person who took on burying Rodney was a school friend of his at Queens College. And he said to me, Mrs. Rodney, normally I would never take a body in this condition. It's only because of Walter. Because what they had done— I went to the mortuary to see where they had put his body. And they had him at the bottom, and they had other bodies thrown on top of him, and the fridge was not working.

Professor Vereen Shepherd: Ooh.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: So, we had to have a covered coffin. But the thing that spooked them, Walter's face was not damaged. It had some burn marks, but I knew it was Walter. Everybody knew it was Walter, Rodney. So their own lies backfired on them. So when I left Barbados, I left Barbados— we had a memorial service before we had a funeral because they wouldn't release the body, and I said we didn't need the body to honor my husband. They could keep it because they needed it more than we needed it. Anyway, finally they handed over the body. And the children and I, 2 friends from Barbados, George Lammin and Margaret Hope, came and took myself and the children to Barbados. I hadn't made any plans what I would do. I didn't know what I would do. I just knew I could not stay in Guyana because it wasn't safe. And I realized it wasn't safe because when I got to Barbados, I was arrested. I was arrested. Prime Minister Burnham called up Prime Minister Tom Adams to tell him he was harboring the enemy. Me and 3 small children were the enemy. So even in Barbados, the Barbadians have to provide security while I was in Barbados because they wanted to cover themselves.

Hugh Dowse: So—

Dr. Patricia Rodney: The harassment that around me family didn't stop with just killing Rodney. It continued. So, in Barbados, I stayed in Barbados for 9 years, and I think it's the best choice I made, because both Walter and I had discussed that we wanted our children, whatever happened, to grow up in the Caribbean, to have an identity. identity, which is very important. I've seen the tragedies of kids who are brought up other places. They don't know who they are. And so, it was important. It was also a chance for us to begin to heal, for me to get the children back in school, to have some normalcy in our lives.

Dr. Kandia Mitchell-Hall: Right.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: One of the things that happened while I was in Ghana, because we had moved around so much, I had moved around with the children and Walter, I was never able to finish my first degree. I'd start, stop, start, stop. So when I got to Guyana, I was working with the Darla— I'd I was working with the Georgetown City Council in charge of early childhood development daycare center, and I took the opportunity while I was in Ghana to go to University of Ghana, where I did a diploma in social work. And then the university, because the University of Ghana had separated itself from The University of the West Indies, it was an independent university. In order to do the degree program in social work, one had to go to Jamaica, and this was the first time students were going on this particular arrangement. So 2 students were selected from that program, myself and another person, to go to Jamaica to finish up. And it's luckily— I'm so happy that I— while I was away from Guyana, my parents, Walter's parents, and Walter looked after the children. So I spent a year in Jamaica. So in Barbados, that I was able to get a job where I could be at home by the time the children had finished school. If I still— because I did nursing here in England— if I was still doing nursing, then the But ours would have been very problematic. So I was glad I was able to do that, to make sure that my children had some kind of pattern in their lives. We stayed in Barbados for 9 years, and then I emigrated to Canada. And it was in Canada that I continued my studies. And then people ask me several times, why you took so long to start a foundation? And my priority was my children, raising my children as a single parent, finding a job, and continuing my own self-development as a woman, because that— we know that several Sometimes when you're with men who are committed to politics or activism, that your work gets left undone.

Dr. Kandia Mitchell-Hall: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: And so, after Walter was killed, I was determined that I would continue my own education. And so, the children were not old enough for us to begin to tackle Walter's work. And that vacuum allowed a lot of people to take ownership of my husband's work. There were all over that's being plagiarized, and people who have not paid us our royalties, and this goes to Africa all over. So one of the first things we did was to try to assemble the papers in one place. And that was not as easy as I thought it would be because we had to smuggle his papers out of Guyana. I'm sure some of it was destroyed. People had to bring it out for us because if the government knew we were taking out, it would be problems. So it was smuggled out of Guyana and brought to me in Barbados. I couldn't keep them. Because they would deteriorate. So a friend offered to take them up to the U.S. and look after them. And then subsequently I learned— and this person was an academic— subsequently I learned that the person was using Walter's papers for his own publications or giving his graduate students. And this is— this book is a product of it, The Russian Revolution. The Russian Revolution. Walter was very— I've never seen anybody take such precise notes. Walter was preparing a course on the Russian Revolution to teach students in Tanzania, a course, and he never taught the course because he was writing How Europe Underdeveloped Africa, so he was focused on this rather than— and the real Russian Revolution was The Russian Revolution from a Third World perspective. That is what he was writing about. So this professor gave this graduate student, Kelly, Dr. Kelly, this manuscript— it wasn't a manuscript, it was notes— to work on. When we heard that the papers were being used, we had to move them again from there, keep them in another temporary place, and find a place that we felt comfortable with giving the papers, donating the papers. So years after, I met Dr. Kelley, and we came to an agreement where we would— he, because he had done a lot of work on bringing it towards a text, that we would work together and produce The Russian Revolution. So it's a view from the Third World. The papers, finally, when I moved— I was living in Canada, and I was recruited from Canada to Atlanta to help develop the first public health program in a historically black college and university. And once I was settled in Atlanta and talked to the archivist who knew Rodney's work, because she was the archivist at Howard University, about placing the papers at the AUC Center, the Atlanta University Center Woodruff Library. So we didn't donated the papers to those archives, and the reason— because several universities approached us about buying the papers. I didn't want to sell the papers. I wanted to make sure that they were being used by people who were interested and could learn from Rodney's scholarship. So that was a deliberate attempt to donate the papers to a black institution And the— Atlanta University Center covers 5 undergraduate and graduate schools. So it's quite a large consortium of universities. So we donated the papers to the Woodruff Library. And on the donation of the papers, we started the Walter Rodney Symposium. Which we've just completed the 16th year of the symposium, and we do it not around when he was assassinated. We deliberately do it on the week of his birth. So some days, sometimes it may fall on actually his birthday or before. And my daughter Asha, who's the youngest, her birthday is on the 22nd of March. What is the 22nd? And my second daughter, Kanini, she's the 28th of March. So that March month has a lot of meaning to our family. And as David told you, the foundation is committed to sharing the life and legacy with— of Walter Rodney with students, scholars, and community activists. And all our symposia involve students. And you have a symposium coming up in the fall. Students. We always have a student panel. We always have community activists and academics, because I'm not just interested in academics coming to add another thing to their CV. I want his work to be—

Hugh Dowse: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the 23rd Annual Walter Rodney Lecture. Put on by the Institute of Caribbean Studies, the University of the West Indies. We want to thank you for your patience waiting for this, this lecture, which I'm sure you will find well worth the wait. Due to technical difficulties, there were some sudden challenges, but as people from a space which is accustomed to dealing with struggle and—

Dr. Kandia Mitchell-Hall: Struggle.

Hugh Dowse: challenge, uh, we want— thanks to our great technical team, we were able to overcome. We want to thank those who were able to join us in our Zoom room. We want to thank those who have joined us on YouTube. And we ask that you share the news that we are on and that this lecture is not to be missed. Now, a lot of time has gone, and so we're not gonna, um, say some of the things that don't need to be said Right now, because we want to get to the meat of the matter with enough time. We want, therefore, to hand over to our welcome, and the welcome will be delivered today, as always, by the director of the Institute of Caribbean Studies. But what is different this year from the previous few previous years is that we have a new director. In the Institute of Caribbean Studies. And we are going to ask our director, Dr. Dave Gosse, who is senior lecturer and director of the ICS and lecturer of plantation management and Afro-Jamaican religion and culture, to welcome us. Over to you, Dr. Gosse.

Dr. Dave Gosse: Thank you very much, Hugh. A pleasant good evening. I take great pleasure in welcoming you to this, the 23rd Annual Walter Rodney Lecture, hosted jointly by the Institute of Caribbean Studies and the Center for Reparation Research. In keeping with our mandate to research and publish in the field of Caribbean culture, it is our honor and delight to present this year's lecture under the theme Reframing October 1968: A Case for Reparative Justice. We are even more pleased to have as our special guest speaker Dr. Patricia Rodney, the wife of the late Walter Rodney. Dr. Patricia Rodney joins a long list of eminent speakers who have delivered the Walter Rodney Lecture. Some of our speakers, I'm sure, are in our audience, and at this time we want to salute you. The Rodney riots of October 1968, which saw university students and the youth of Kingston together take to the street to protest the banning of Rodney by the Hugh Sherrod-led government, was not only historic but mirrors what is now A global reality that Black lives matter. At the surface, it would have appeared that the riot was in vain, as Rodney indeed did not return to Jamaica after being declared persona non grata. However, his memory, his work, his philosophy and teachings are highlights of an age of activism which is now bearing fruit in the form of reparative justice. Rodney was an exemplary youth activist, a scholar, political statesman whose impact transcends time and motivates reparative causes. We are reminded by our Vice Chancellor, Professor Sir Hilary Beckles, that if the 19th century could be described as the decade of abolition of slavery, the 20th century that of civil rights, Then this century ought to be the decade of reparatory justice. It is my hope that this evening's reasoning will inspire us all to do our part in activism through our educational pursuits and through our daily conversations. Once again, a warm welcome to you all.

Hugh Dowse: Thank you so much, Dr. Gus, for your welcome. And we would like to thank you for contextualizing and framing this year's lecture, which indeed is very special because we have the widow of Walter Rodney with us, and she would have a perspective like no other. We look forward to hearing from her. You know, Walter Rodney's engagement of the working class and of students, and the ways in which that movement that he led right here at the Mona campus of the University of the West Indies would have impacted many, including politicians who lead in the Caribbean today, would make today's talk a very fitting talk at a time where we are dealing with certain issues in the world that I know his work, let alone him, would have had a lot to speak about. We're going to just go straight into the talk tonight. We've waited long enough. And so we're going to ask our lecturer of African Diaspora, Heritage and Memory, the coordinator of the Caribbean Civilization course, which I teach in— so she's one of my bosses— and she's also a person who believes in regionalism.

Professor Vereen Shepherd: Hi.

Hugh Dowse: and in the power of persons of the Caribbean to stand in the world head and shoulders among the rest. And, and she teaches students of the University of the West Indies this every day. We're going to ask Dr. Kandia Mitchell-Hall to please introduce our long-awaited guest speaker.

Dr. Kandia Mitchell-Hall: Thank you so much, Hugh. Greetings, everyone. If there was ever a speaker who could reframe October 1968 as a case for reparative justice, it would be our speaker, Dr. Patricia Pat Rodney. Dr. Rodney not only lived in the moment of October 1968, but she has also been living with the legacy, burden and memory of that moment. As the spouse of the grassroots scholar, Dr. Walter Rodney, she is directly situated within the cosmology of the memory of October 1968.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: Thank you.

Dr. Nicole Plummer: Yes.

Dr. Kandia Mitchell-Hall: And she has committed her life, along with her children and grandchildren, to carrying her husband's grassroots activism to the community and to erasing the dangerous single narrative that has been perpetuated against him as a dangerous person, or in the rhetoric of the day, persona non grata. Dr. Patricia Rodney is a seasoned public health professional and a professor of community health who has empowered generations of women and girls to see themselves as playing a role in the transgenerational exchange of tradition and identity. She holds a doctorate in sociology and adult education from the University of Toronto and a master's in public health in the area of health education and health promotion from Emory University. A true grassroots Caribbeanist, her work connects campus and community in the areas of health, adult education and literacy, social work, women, gender and development. Dr. Rodney's voice is also immortalized in a book she authored entitled The Caribbean State: Healthcare and Women: An Analysis of Barbados and Grenada, in 2006. In a move to institutionalize her husband's work, Dr. Rodney and her family established the Walter Rodney Foundation, which is the epicenter for archival materials on Walter Rodney. Significantly, Dr. Rodney's work continues her husband's grassroots activism and enlivens Rodney's grounding with his Caribbean siblings. It is indeed an honor and pleasure to welcome an icon, an activist, and true sister of the Caribbean civilization, Dr. Patricia Pat Rodney.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: Thank you, Kandia, for that introduction. It's a pleasure for me to be here. Good evening. My name is Dr. Patricia Rodney, the widow of Dr. Walter Rodney, and the mother of Shaka, Kanini, and Asha, and our 4 beautiful grandchildren, Asia, Kai, Sky, and Apedwa. I bring you greetings from the family and from the Walter Rodney Foundation. I am indeed honored to be invited to give the Walter Rodney Lecture. Tonight, I'm going to depart from the academic lecture format And instead share my experiences and reflections at— of October 1968. In keeping with the theme of the 23rd Annual Walter Rodney Lecture, Reframing October 1968: A Case for Reparative Justice, I will provide my perspective on reparative justice. Before I begin, Let me express my deep appreciation to Vice-Chancellor Sir Hilary Beckles and Dr. Voreen Shepherd, Director of the Centre for Reparations Research, for their activism, scholarship, and unwavering friendship and solidarity. Thank you, Dr. Dave Gosse, Director of the Institute of Caribbean Studies, for the invitation. And a special appreciation to the viewing and listening audience and to the technical—

Dr. Kandia Mitchell-Hall: Thank you.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: January to October 1968. The month of October is historically significant in the lives of Jamaican working peoples as they protested against widespread poverty and injustices. 156 years ago, on October 11th, 1865, the Moran Bay Rebellion broke out under the leadership of Paul Bogle and other heroes and sheroes. Jamaican people were protesting injustice, widespread poverty and poor living conditions. 53 years ago, on October 16th, 1968, Walter Rodney was the catalyst for what is commonly known as the Rodney Riots or Rodney Disturbances. Though this started as a protest when Rodney was denied entry, it became a protest of and a rebellion against the same persistent socioeconomic and political conditions. Arriving in Jamaica in January 1968, Walter, our young son Shaka, and I landed in the breathtaking city Of Kingston in Jamaica. For Walter, at 26 years old, it was a return to UWI Mona, his alma mater, but now as faculty. He already had a year of teaching African history under his belt at the University of Dar es Salaam, Tanzania. Our 8 months were normal. Walter was enjoying his job and giving talks to various groups. I was employed at the university hospital as a staff nurse. We also often hung out with students at the students' union rather than a more formal senior common room. Our social life was active, and we spent many weekends exploring various parts of the country. Since we planned to be in Jamaica for a number of years, I decided to complete my undergraduate degree at Mona. I applied and was accepted for entrance in September 1968 and started classes as a first-year social sciences student, never expecting the experience to be short-lived. Walter left home to attend the Congress of Black Writers in Montreal, Canada, from October 11th to the 14th, 1968. He delivered his address entitled Statement of the Jamaican Situation. Rodney is banned from Jamaica. The flight bringing Walter back from Canada landed at 2:20 PM on Tuesday, October 15th. He was subsequently informed that he was not allowed to disembark and re-enter the country. Walter's friend, Dr. Robert Bobby Hill, a UCLA professor, was also returning from the conference. and was permitted to disembark. Walter gave Bobby a letter informing me of the travesty and that we would stay in communication until it was resolved. There were conflicting reports about the time faculty and students at UWI actually became aware that Walter was banned. The Honorable Ralph González, Prime Minister of Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Who was then the president of the Students Guild, made an announcement that students were not informed until after 9:00 PM that Dr. Rodney was refused reentry and confined to the aircraft. Immediately, students began to organize. We decided to march the next day, and we stayed up all night making placards condemning the ban. The next morning, October 17th, large number of university students march approximately 6 miles from the campus along Hope Road to Jamaican Parliament in downtown Kingston. We were all dressed as planned in our identifiable red gowns and were joined by a few faculty members. By the time we arrived in the city, our numbers had increased as a large number of secondary school students And masses of working people joined the demonstration. The violence against the demonstrators increased. From our vantage point, we could see people running and being chased by police who were using batons and tear gas. My friend Kay and another friend, Sonia, and I were terrified. I think it was Sonia who was burned by the tear gas. We ran and were rescued by firefighters, who took us into the fire station. I do not remember who took us back to campus. By evening, the students who had been harassed, tear-gassed, including me, and others who were beaten and brutalized by the police returned to the campus. We were all in a state of shock that this was happening and could happen to us. Privileged students. The university campus was placed on a lockdown. The Gleaner newspaper of October 18th reported a loss of property. 13 buses were destroyed, 72 were damaged, and 90 buildings either totally or partially damaged. Buses seemed to be targeted since the privately owned companies had just raised the bus fares. I'm sorry, I can't hear you. Other media reported 11 policemen were injured and 23 protesters were arrested and charged. Others that there were millions of dollars in damages. What was not reported was that the Jamaican security forces used brutal force in breaking up the demonstrations, which resulted in severe injuries and fatalities. However, as Rodney indicated, indicated. It was the shortages of basic food supplies, hike in bus fares, high unemployment, and persistent social inequalities were the trigger. It did not happen in isolation. The aftermath and leaving Jamaica. At the time, I was about 4 months pregnant. The combination of the march, tear gas, and dehydration took a toll on me. On the way back to the campus, I began experiencing intermittent abdominal pain and contractions. I was taken to the home of the warden of Mary Seacole Hall, the late Dr. Lucille Mayer, who was a family friend. She immediately requested that my doctor at the UWI Hospital should be allowed entry upon his arrival on campus. After examining me, the doctor ordered complete bed rest, increased fluid intake, and sedatives to prevent a miscarriage. This was a very difficult and traumatic experience. I was terrified— Excuse me. —that I would lose our baby without either Walter or my son Shaka at my side. Shakur was being taken care of by the Hamilton family. I was away from my young child for over a week prior to being medically cleared to leave the campus. I was told he kept asking for my— his mom. I returned home to an empty house. With the help of friends, I packed up our personal belongings and moved in with the Hamilton family. The termination of Walter's contract meant that housing was no longer an option. We remained with the Hamilton family until we departed Jamaica at the end of October. The next major task was dealing with the university bureaucracy, who was pressuring me into accepting airline tickets to Guyana. I had insisted that since Walter was not recruited from Guyana, but from Tanzania, that I would only accept airline tickets to Dar via London, since this is where Walter and I had agreed to meet. The university finally capitulated, but it was stressful fighting for a provision that was written into Walter's contract. The only other communication I had with senior faculty was their questioning me whether it was true that Walter—

Hugh Dowse: I'm sorry?

Dr. Patricia Rodney: associated with Rastafarians. Upon leaving Jamaica, Shaka, our unborn child, and I reunited with Walter briefly in London at the end of October. Walter left for Cuba, and the plan was for us to join him where he was taking a break to reassess his continued role in the university and the Jamaican situation. Due to visit— visa delays, we decided that it was better for us to go to Tanzania. That was where Kanini was born, and later Asha. Why was the government of Jamaica hostile to Rodney? Rodney was not the first Black man to be accused of inciting the Black population, but he was the first non-Jamaican and academic. The Special Branch of Jamaica Police had Walter under constant surveillance. In fact, it was discovered that the Jamaican Intelligence Services had a file on Rodney from his days as an undergraduate. Michael O. West, in The Targeting of Walter Rodney, states that within a month after Rodney's return to Jamaica, his file was updated. For some time, the intelligence services had recommended the deportation of Rodney because of his subversive activities, which nefarious behavior continued unabated. However, the most significant and alarming addition to Rodney's intelligence file was a false claim that Rodney was becoming a danger to the all-important tourism sector, and that he had been in touch with Rastafarians, in the Montego Bay area trying to incite them to attack tourists. The final, and I quote, intelligence assessment of Rodney's activities on his return revealed a history of subversive action, agitation, and organization of a Black Power movement, and the propagandizing of communism and violence, end of quote. Although Rodney posed no immediate threat to internal security, Rodney's penchant for building alliances among the discontented contained the seeds of future peril. Rodney was, I quote, potentially dangerous since he might succeed in bringing together various disaffected elements in Jamaica, end of quote. The JLP cabinet met on October 14th, And declare Rodney persona non grata. I quote, never in the history of modern Jamaica, the Minister of Legal Affairs and Attorney General, the Honorable Victor B. Grant, will later fulminate, never has there been a man who provided greater threat to the security of Jamaica than Rodney, end of quote. What is reparative justice? Reparative justice seeks to repair, in some way, the harm done to victims as a result of human rights violations. It is a way of thinking about justice, a mindset that centers on those who have been harmed and focuses on repairing past harms, stopping present harm, and preventing the repetition of harm. The harm. 1, personal non grata, unacceptable or unwelcome person. No legal basis or standard can be used or misused as a political tool. This was a denial of Walter's due process. There was no hearing, no interviews, no statement was taken. 2, the ban. The ban on Walter imposed by the Jamaican Labour Party. As of today, October 15th, 2021, 53 years on, the ban on Rodney re-entering Jamaica never lifted by either the JLP or PNP governments. Loss of employment. Rodney lost a year of employment before being reappointed in Tanzania. I don't remember him receiving his last salary or being paid out of his contract. He had at least 2 years remaining. Loss of intellectual property. Rodney was working on several lectures and articles that we have not retrieved. Dislocation of the family. Walter was in Cuba for 3 to 4 months. Kanini was born while he was away. That was the only time he was there for both Shaka—

Hugh Dowse: Shakur.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: And ashes births. Loss of personal property, household items and personal belongings that had to be given away due to leaving at such short notice. Number 7, soiling of reputation. Criminalized Walter, called him a communist and extremist. Walter's crimes were that he associated with Rastafarians and other criminal elements. and posed a danger to society, that he was going to destroy brown people and their assets and was instigating the burning of the UWI campus. 8, physical and mental trauma. Due to tear gas, I was physically sick and was on bed rest for a week. All that time, Shakur was without his father and mother. The picture of Shaka sums it up. Kanini also suffered from the effects of the tear gas, but thankfully we did not lose her. She's now a physician and a physician leader. Disruption of education. My education was cut short. I had just started my undergraduate degree. It took me another 8 years before I could restart my studies. Denial of Walter's expertise to students and the people of Jamaica. The university had waited 2 years for Walter to arrive. Harm against the people of Jamaica, denial of educating people about their history and providing forums for discussion of ideas. There was significant emotional and physical harm, as well as fatalities, that resulted from the events. What occurred in Jamaica in 1968 was extreme, but not as isolated as one would think. Jamaica's action made Rodney an unwelcome visitor in many Caribbean islands and somewhat delayed and impacted his return to Ghana in 1974. Trinidad and Tobago kept us for several hours at the airport before being allowed to attend the Caribbean Council of Churches retreat. Walter was also refused entry into Antigua and Grenada under the Gary administration. I'm sorry, I can't hear you. The only country that did not treat him like a pariah was Barbados. Following Walter's assassination, I migrated with the children to Barbados, which became our home. What reparative justice looks like: an acknowledgment of the wrongdoing, apology to the Rodney family, apology and reparations to those that were injured or killed, Apology to the people of Jamaica. The ban on Rodney re-entering Jamaica should be lifted. Just— not just semantics are superficial. Even though it is posthumous, it would reflect the decision that was made was not the correct one. For the university to develop policies and procedures to stop this from happening again. Would they defend Walter Rodney now? Procedures for spouses and families. Examine the role of the Black intellectual in the service of the people. End the silence on Rodney and formal recognition of Rodney's contribution to Jamaica and the region. Use of his works in schools and universities. We have to learn our history to avoid repeating it, but also to understand and improve our conditions. We have a collective role and responsibility in our own education and that of the people. Persistence of the conditions and inequalities that existed in 1968 in many ways are still here. This is the reckoning that we all have to face. For us, as a family and a foundation, we are in the process of collecting all his files, writings, and works from the community, the university, both as a student and a professor, and all government records— police, immigration, and special branches. Right. And communication with other countries should be provided to us for the correction and preservation for historical record. This information would be added to the Walter Rodney Papers and Special Collection at the Atlanta University Center Robert Woodruff Library. From my vantage point in 1968, we were launching a peaceful protest and march, as were the students. We saw it as a groundswelling of support from the community. It was only after people were beaten and tear-gassed that they retaliated to the police heavy-handedness and brutality. Rodney was used as a scapegoat for a social uprising that was inevitable due to the obvious disparities and inequities faced by the working class.

Dr. Dave Gosse: Thank you.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: The majority of whom were of African descent. Rodney may have been the spark that ignited the uprising, but not the cause. It was the straw that broke the camel's back. Rodney left us with a body of knowledge in The Groundings with My Brothers, where he addressed the October events. I will encourage those of you in the audience to read or reread it. I will read a part of the last chapter, chapter 6, as I close. And this is the new edition of Groundings— Groundings with My Brothers.

Dr. Kandia Mitchell-Hall: Thank you.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: Rodney, I quote, but first let me indicate this, that the government of Jamaica, insofar as it has attempted to stifle the aspirations of the masses, and insofar as it believed that my removal from the scene is going to aid in stifling the masses, is making a serious mistake. This act in itself will not delay that day of judgment. Indeed, These fellows know this. They know the present state of affairs cannot go on forever, and this is what creates the atmosphere of fear. This is what allows them to take such stupid and panic-stricken measures. End of quote. The stu— I quote, the students have demonstrated, which is good. They came out, they heard a university lecture was banned, They got no reason, which is the normal procedure of the Jamaican government. It does not give reasons for things. They came out. They started to walk along the streets. The police started to tear gas them. They started to beat them with batons and nightsticks. And something flared up, relatively small, but it's a great advance, I tell you.

Dr. Kandia Mitchell-Hall: Thank you.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: Thank you. OK, I'll read one other, one other quote, if I can.

Hugh Dowse: Please, please do.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: However— I quote Roddy— however, they moved, and that in itself is a good thing, but there was more to it than that. The Black brothers in Kingston, Jamaica, moved against the government of Jamaica. This is a point that must come home. Let us stop calling it student riots. What has happened in Jamaica is that the Black people of the city of Kingston have seized upon the opportunity to begin their indictment against the government of Jamaica. Now, let us get this abundantly clear. This did not happen as an isolated incident.

Hugh Dowse: That's right.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: This is part of a whole social malaise. This is a revolutionary activity, end of quote. Thank you.

Hugh Dowse: Ah, and thank you so much, Dr. Patricia Rodney, the widow of Walter Rodney, for giving us a perspective like none other of not only the incidents of 1968, but in her talk, Reframing October 1968: A Case for reparative justice has presented a compelling and overwhelming case that I'm sure has been an education and an enlightening perspective for all of us. And we're going to have to discuss this. And there is— for those of us who are on YouTube, thank you for joining us there. I want to just read one of the comments that Geneva Virtue, My colleague from Carrie Mack, hi Geneva, says, thank you, Dr. Rodney. I will continue to write about the posthumous pardon. Geneva has been on that. We have to have a discussion, and we have a special type of discussion coming up now. But maybe now is the time when we're going to probably need to just reflect a little, and we're going to get some music to do that by. I think the music is quite appropriate. Crystal Smith.

Dr. Dave Gosse: Thank you.

Hugh Dowse: Of the Nexus Performing Arts Company, now sings.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: I've been walking with my face turned to the sun.

Crystal Smith: Weight on my shoulders, a bullet in my gun. Oh, I got eyes in the back of my head, just in case I have to run. I do what I can, when I can, while I can for my people, who are the clouds roll back and the stars fill the night. I'm a woman. That's when I'm gonna stand up, take my people with me. Together we are going to a brand new home, far across the river. Can you hear freedom calling, calling me to answer? Gonna keep on keeping on. I can feel it.

Professor Vereen Shepherd: Yeah.

Crystal Smith: Early in the morning, before the sun begins to shine, we're gonna start moving. Moving, moving towards that separating line. Whoa, I'm wanting somebody hard. You know I got a made-up mind. I made up my mind, and I don't mind if I lose any blood on the way.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: Thank you.

Crystal Smith: And I'll fight with the strength that I got until I die. So I'm gonna stand up, take my people with me. Together we are going to a brand new home, far across the river. Can you hear freedom calling? Calling me to answer, gonna keep on keeping on. And I know what's around the bend might be hard to face 'cause I'm alone and I just might fail. But Lord, Those that try shall stars fill up the sky. We are going to a brand-new home, far across the river. It's calling me to answer. Stand up, take my people with me. Together we are going to a brand new home, far across the river. Can you hear freedom calling, calling you to answer? I'm gonna keep on keeping on. I'm gonna stand up, take my people with me. Together we are going to a brand new home, far across the river. I hear freedom calling, calling me to answer. I can feel it in my bones. I go to prepare a place for you. I go to prepare a place for you. I go to prepare Prepare a place for you. I go forward, Lord, to prepare a place for you.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: This—

Hugh Dowse: Thank you. Thank you so much, Crystal, for that beautiful rendition of Stand Up, a song about a revolutionary and a song about the experience of Dr. Patricia Rodney, who had to stand up and take her family with her after the issues of 1968. Thank you. But we're now going to have a special discussion about the talk and about the issue of the reparative justice, reparative justice that was put on the table by Dr. Patricia Rodney. And we're going to have a special twist to the name of the book, and I hope you are all going to purchase that book on all the online platforms that we will hear later that it is available on. But we have a twist to the name. It's, it's now A Reasoning with My Sisters, which is going to be led by Dr. Dave Gosse, and which will be with Dr. Patricia Rodney and one of the eminent persons in the academy globally dealing with the issues of reparations and reparative justice, Professor Vereen Shepherd. Professor of Social History at the University of the West Indies Mona Campus. So over to you, Dr. Gosse, and to your team of sisters. And I'm going to ask that Dr. Gosse be unmuted, as well as Professor Shepherd and Dr. Rodney.

Dr. Dave Gosse: Thank you so very much, Hugh. We are joined now by the eminent professor, Professor Verene Shepherd, and our distinguished lecturer, Dr. Rodney. And I must say, Vereen, that Dr. Rodney put a spoke in our wheels, because we have some questions for Dr. Rodney, and she really spoke from the heart. And at this time now, I'm still reflecting, Vereen, that we at the university here at the West Indies now, we have to do some repairing. Can I have a comment there, Vereen? We have to do some repairing of the damage that was done to Walter.

Dr. Nicole Plummer: Yeah.

Professor Vereen Shepherd: Thank you very much. Um, good evening, everyone. And, uh, Dr. Rodney, it was a real— it was, it was with mixed emotions, really, that I listened to your lecture, your, your talk, your reasoning from the heart, really. You and I have spoken in the past about those experiences, but tonight, you know, I am I'm so moved. And I think I want to just ask you whether, whether you have, you and the family, the rest of the family, whether you have made a formal official claim for reparative justice on the government of Jamaica, and what has been the response. And if not, don't you think it's time for that to happen? And there are people who would join you.

Dr. Kandia Mitchell-Hall: Yes.

Professor Vereen Shepherd: in helping you to put the case together? So that's my first question. You know, has the family made a formal claim to the government of Jamaica? Interestingly enough, the same regime with new leaders, uh, is in power, so it would be a good time, I think. And the second, the second issue, and Dave, I think, spoke to it tangentially, the University of the West in this I didn't know that there are these outstanding settlements to be made to the Rodney family. And so the second question is along the same line. When are you going to file this? And I'll just have one more comment after you deal with those 2.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: The family has never made any Um, any outreach to the Jamaican government at all. Our focus for the last 40 years has been on Guyana, because that has been very critical. That has involved not just my immediate family, but my brother-in-law, who was charged with a crime. So all our energies went into doing— Right. Guyana. We've now resolved some of the issues with Guyana. It's— the government has acknowledged that Rodney was assassinated by the state. And so certain things are being put in place. The second one, I said in my talk, I was not sure that the university had met those things. I'm not sure. About payments, I don't know. But I know what happened is that a lot of his intellectual property was left. That I'm sure of, because he was never able to come back into Jamaica to get his stuff. And I never went to his office. There just wasn't time to do all those things.

Professor Vereen Shepherd: So I think that we who are there still have a responsibility. And I promise you that I will do some digging myself. And if there are outstanding claims to be made, then I will be in touch with the family, because the reparation movement is not only about claims to colonizers, former colonizers, that— although that is a big part of it. In Jamaica, for example, the National Council on Reparation has embraced the mandate of internal reparation. And that's why they pressed hard for reparative justice to Rastafari brutalized in the Coral Gardens massacre. So I think this is also a case that we should take on board in terms of internal reparation, and I can promise you that I will actually do that. But my final question is, let's go to Guyana then, since you went there.

Dr. Kandia Mitchell-Hall: Okay.

Professor Vereen Shepherd: I have been to Guyana several times, and I've gone to the park supposed to be in memory and honor of Walter Rodney. I am not pleased with it. And I have been speaking to reparation activists in Guyana that should be taken on board. And then I was asking about his grave, you know, his burial site.

Dr. Nicole Plummer: Yes.

Professor Vereen Shepherd: That's another place for activism. So I just want to say, especially since this is being, um, put on with collaboration and partnering, um, from the Center for Reparation Research at the University of the West Indies, I'm saying that you have given me some other activities and actionable items that must be placed on the agenda.

Dr. Kandia Mitchell-Hall: Mm-hmm.

Professor Vereen Shepherd: But I want to thank you so much for baring your soul to us, so to speak. Thank you for the facts. Thank you.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: Thank you, Nerdeen. I want to respond about what the government of Ghana, on June 10th, when they acknowledged that wrongdoing had occurred decades ago that had both human Financial and legal consequences. As I said, Donald's conviction and Walter's death were intertwined. The death certificate was changed from unemployed to professor. That, too, was a degeneration of Rodney that is being corrected. They are part of measures that are being taken to right Rodney's name, to ensure that the historical record is corrected and to give him his rightful place in history. Other commitments include the renaming of the National Archives. As you know, it was renamed under this government, and then when the other government went in, they took down the name, so it had to be renamed again. The Walter Rodney Archives. His gravesite and memorial being declared national monuments, which will mean that the government will make sure that it's properly looked after, because a lot of people had helped, volunteers, and a lot of times things were destroyed. So I'm happy that it's going to be officially declared— Um, national monument, introducing his works, including his children's books, in schools and university, which is very important, because especially the 2 books, Kofi Badu and Lakshmi, which I think is not just relevant to Guyana, but is relevant to Trinidad, Jamaica, anywhere where different cultures meet. How do we respect and understand each other? In order to live together, and the reestablishment of the Rodney Chair at the University of Guyana, and the clearing of Donald Rodney's name, which now allows him to practice as a lawyer. And of course, we are also going to proceed with reparations, because I think it's time that we ask for reparations, since It's been acknowledged that Rodney was assassinated by the state. It doesn't matter which government is in power, it's a state action that took place.

Dr. Dave Gosse: Thank you, thank you so very much, Dr. Rodney. I just have 2 short questions for you. As a historian, you mentioned that name Hamilton, the Hamiltons took you in. We'd love to know who those— that family is, you know, for our own historical understanding. But more important, though, Walter was not the usual intellectual here at University of the West Indies. Most of us— well, I'm sure then— were persons who were more cladded, you know, a place of privilege. How— what were the influences on Walter's early life? Which allowed him or made him become a man of the people, in that sense, and not sitting in his office just writing away and enjoying his university career and life?

Dr. Patricia Rodney: Well, Walter's experience came from a working-class background. He saw his parents struggle, even though he got a scholarship to the most prestigious school in Guyana, Queen's College. They had to buy books, find clothes. So his parents supported him through all those things. He was very committed, from very early on, to the working peoples. He saw people struggling to support their families. He also, Rodney, saw the humanity in all people. He did not discriminate. We had friends of all walks of life. And I think that terrorized—

Professor Vereen Shepherd: Right.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: The people in the neighborhood we lived in, in New Kingston, when Rastafarians would come to visit us. Whether in a rally or a bottom house, as we call it in Guyana, a dongle, a lecture hall, or in our home, he was the same person. Rodney believed that knowledge and education had to be shared, and those who had it Has this— the same responsibility. I would say he was born a teacher. Yes. He loved engaging people. Rodney did not see himself anytime as a leader. He often acknowledged that his education was a sacrifice made by his parents, his siblings, But also that he was responsible to the people of Guyana. And one of the reasons we returned to Guyana was based on his desire to serve his family and his country. He had a deep love for the Guyanese people, all the Guyanese people.

Dr. Dave Gosse: Thank you very much. And who were the Hamiltons?

Dr. Patricia Rodney: The Hamiltons is a Jamaican family who was our neighbors.

Dr. Kandia Mitchell-Hall: Yeah.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: They had 3 daughters, Kay Hamilton, who became— who was Kay Anderson, the late Kay Anderson. It's that family, yes.

Hugh Dowse: OK. OK.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: Patsy Edwards and Sonia Charles are the other 2 sisters. And we still maintain contact. We're still good friends. And yes.

Hugh Dowse: Very good.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: But they were my saviors.

Dr. Dave Gosse: Thank you. Thank you. Okay, we want to thank you so very much, Professor Shepherd, for sharing this moment with us. And Dr. Rodney, I also want to thank you for your frankness, you know, and for really enlightening us regarding what really occurred and from your perspective. And you have really reinforced to us, especially students, the value of a primary source and how important it is to hear from our primary sources. Thank you very much. Over to you, Hugh, as I'm sure that there are persons in the audience, a few persons who might want to still ask a few questions. We don't want to overburden Dr. Rodney, but it's over to you.

Hugh Dowse: Indeed, indeed. Thank you so much, Dr. Gosse and Professor Shepherd. While I allow persons to put their questions, there are some Comments in the chat, but I see that Professor Shepherd, I think she has something that she would like to interject. So could her mic be open, please? Go ahead, Professor Shepherd.

Professor Vereen Shepherd: Thank you, Dr. Rodney. You said something which triggered a question in my head, because you talked about, I think, and you were stressing that he loved the Guyanese people, all the Guyanese people. So I thought I would ask you this. Because Walter Rodney had an inclusive view of the working class. In fact, the basic aim of his A History of the Guyanese Working Peoples was that working people of African and Indian descent in Guyana have a history of active struggle that traditional history had omitted. So I was wondering if you, if you think that perhaps we're not— we haven't been as inclusive as we should be in the reparation movement?

Dr. Patricia Rodney: Um, let me see if I could respond to the question in this way. I would say former enslaved people and indentured people suffered under similar socioeconomic conditions. Rodney, in How Europe Underdeveloped Africa, discussed the slave masters were paid for the loss of their slaves, but freed people were not paid anything. He believed that a debt was owed. Rodney believed that the working people, the masses, had to acknowledge their history and celebrate their cultural differences. And I talked about why he wrote Lakshmi and Kofi Badu, so the kids could understand and respect each other. The reparations movement is complex. We should advocate as oppressed peoples for reparation. That includes Black and brown people. We have a situation in the U.S. where distinctions are being made between African Americans that were brought to the U.S. and can trace their history versus other African Americans. We have to be able to advocate— excuse me— advocate together from a position of strength. But also support others when they have a unique harm. But we have to be careful at the same time and not alienate or create factions that dilute our effectiveness. I hope that answers your question.

Professor Vereen Shepherd: Yes, thank you so much. Thank you.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: And thank you for offering to help us, Vareen. That's, that's really very important.

Hugh Dowse: Yes. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. We have some more questions for you coming from the Zoom and the YouTube chat. So when you see me looking from side to side, I'm looking at all the people in the 2 rooms. Let's start to look at some of the comments on YouTube. The comment from— I hope I'm pronouncing the name right— Chinier Neil. Um, is, uh, Asante sana, Dr. Rodney. Um, uh, water spirits— we have water spirits in the room, um, from Barbados. Uh, the, the, the, the person says, the spirit of Walter Rodney lives. We are sincerely grateful to our Mama Patricia. Greetings from Barbados. So you're hearing the love that, you know, Barbados has For you. Geneva again says, and this is a question, I don't know if it's rhetorical, she says, should the UWI not be the first entity to show enlightenment and admit wrong? Would that not cause the government to act? I'm going to ask any of the 3 conversants here to respond to that, of course you being lead. Dr. Rodney?

Dr. Patricia Rodney: Well, I did say that I thought the university handling my situation was not satisfactory. And I hope that something has been put in place. If there's another Rodney, what happens? We have to learn from our past and correct You know, the present. So hopefully the university will or has put things in place so that when the spouse of somebody who is, I don't know, deported, declared persona non grata— I hope we've passed that stage by now— that something happens, that that human aspect is taken care of.

Professor Vereen Shepherd: Yeah.

Hugh Dowse: Thank you, thank you so much. And in response to that commitment to follow up, Professor Shepherd, Errol in the Zoom says, good strong promise from the professor. I'm hearing also from Irvin Hall administration who says fantastic sense of responsibility to educate all people, in reference to Rodney's mission, but indeed also from the tradition that this lecture continues.

Dr. Nicole Plummer: Thank you.

Hugh Dowse: Vivian Peter says, such great strength, Dr. Patricia Rodney. Respect to you and the family. And there's someone asking how to get a transcript. But the statement from Chris Chinapoo on YouTube, full support, Dr. Rodney. This wrong must be corrected. The record must be cleared. And this legacy to humanity and our regional development.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: Thank you.

Hugh Dowse: And we're still inviting questions from the chat room, but I'm going to invite, in the meantime, I know Dr. Goss and Professor Shepherd had a whole book of questions that they wanted to ask. But before they ask, I am going to use chairman's privilege to slip my question in. And it's on behalf of the students of Caribbean Civilization, who several of them are here, both on YouTube and here in the Zoom room. The approach that Rodney took to the teaching of repositioning ourselves in the picture of national and regional development and the empowerment of the masses, especially the working class, could you—

Dr. Kandia Mitchell-Hall: Yes.

Hugh Dowse: From your vantage point, hazard a guess as to some of the things that he might have said today, some of the— based on the fact that you know the man, you know, and you carry in your own self his perspective, because that's a part of what would have united you both. What I would say is that he would have said, And by extension, and I'm not being— I hope this doesn't sound sexist, but I'm asking about his perspective. But I'm also asking you for yours, because you have been a part of the movement yourself. What would that narrative be today, had Rodney been here today?

Dr. Patricia Rodney: I think he may have been a bit disappointed. to see that we haven't really moved in the way we should. A lot of this comes from our inability, I think, to come together as a region. We see ourselves as distinct countries. I would have thought that, for example, CARICOM would have taken a position on Rodney. I think that would have done a lot.

Dr. Nicole Plummer: Yeah.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: For the whole regional body. UWI is a regional institution. And for leaders not to say anything allowed it to continue and for Rodney to be demonized. I and my family, we continue to make sure that Rodney is given his rightful place in history. Right. It's been a long— and it's a continuous struggle, because every day I'm amazed when I see the quantity of work that he has produced. We are just creating 3 volumes of his articles, some published and some unpublished. My daughter and I were talking that we need a sabbatical just to go into the archives. And to read his stuff. It's amazing. And I think the loss is not just a personal loss. I think the Caribbean has lost an important voice and an important person who could have contributed to the reparations movement.

Hugh Dowse: Thank you so much for that response, Dr. Rodney. I'm going to now hand over to Professor Shepherd and Dr. Goss. Could they be unmuted, please? I think you're unmuted, Professor Shepherd. I think you can speak now. No, she's not. Please unmute Professor Shepherd and Dr. Goss.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: Okay.

Professor Vereen Shepherd: Dr. Rodney, I listened very keenly to Your description of the, the sociopolitical and economic environment of, um, 1968.

Dr. Kandia Mitchell-Hall: Mm-hmm.

Professor Vereen Shepherd: And the way in which Rodney's teachings, um, were just reflecting his own response to the socioeconomic situation.

Hugh Dowse: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Professor Vereen Shepherd: And, and therefore, when something happened to him, The response was immediate and predictable.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: Mm-hmm.

Professor Vereen Shepherd: As of the disadvantaged people and so on. But when we look at— when we compare 1968 to now, do you think that much has changed in terms of the conditions of the working class? And would— and even on the campus, would— if another Rodney situation Should arise at UWI, do you think the response would be the same, or have the student body lost its ethical activism? Even as we are talking about a university which is repositioning or positioning itself or continuing to, to say it is ethical and activist. A big question, I know, long question. But I think we get the essence of it.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: Mm-hmm. I think the conditions are probably the same or worse for most people throughout the Caribbean, working peoples. I feel that the university perhaps needs to play a more active role. On what goes on in the society. For too long, the university and the populations have been apart. And Rodney was able to make that link by talking to people wherever they were. People asked him whether he was in a church. They asked him to come to the Jamaica Broadcasting Service, I think it was. To do an interview on Black Power, and then they refused to play it. So, there are contradictions within the society. I am not sure if the government, your current government, has progressed along those lines. But it's a chance for us to look inwards. Thank you. And to reflect on some of the things we do. I know you do a lot of work in the community. I'm not sure how other people on campus, how other faculty on campus teach. I'm not sure if they get into the communities, if the students are exposed to the community. Because whether you come from a poor background or middle-class background, As a university student, you're privileged in the society. You have certain benefits that working peoples don't have. And I think it's a commitment on the part of the students and the faculty to give back to that society in any way they can.

Professor Vereen Shepherd: I think, though, that Rodney has left— he blazed a trail, and I think he left an example, certainly in the history department.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: Wow.

Professor Vereen Shepherd: This department that I joined made a commitment not to imprison itself within the walls of academia. And I've been in other faculties, so I don't think— I think maybe not enough people are doing it, but I have to say that Rodney left an example that many of us today still follow. And hopefully we can pass on that commitment To the people who put us where we are, you know, to actually engage in community activities and take our— be intentional about decolonizing the curriculum.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes.

Professor Vereen Shepherd: All right. So I'm encouraged, even though I know, in terms of the student body, I'm less encouraged. But I think the faculty— Many of us are not imprisoning ourselves in academia. But let me not hog the show. Dave, over to you.

Dr. Dave Gosse: Yes, I mean, one question though that has really perplexed me about Walter, and I understand your position about him, you know, being someone, a grassroots individual. Now I know, for example, when it comes to like The Caribbean, race is still a significant issue in the Caribbean even today. And we see it in the political parties, you know, mainly Trinidad and Tobago and Guyana, that race— right. Now, Walter was able to unite a number of Indians in the political movement. And I'm still— because I know in Trinidad, for example, now you had N.A.R. Robinson, who tried and I think won one election, but—

Dr. Nicole Plummer: One.

Dr. Dave Gosse: The party fizzled out after that, a party of unity between Indians and Blacks. How was Walter able to unite in the 1960s, or, well, probably 1960s or so, a number of Indians into the political movement in a time when racial was rigid along political lines? How did he do it?

Dr. Kandia Mitchell-Hall: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: I think Walter started to talk about the conditions that the working-class Indians and Africans were facing, which were very similar. Walter, again, traveled around the country talking to people, whether in bottom house meetings, public meetings. He always provided them with some way of uniting. And they did. Black bauxite workers and sugarcane workers came together in a time to support each other in the strikes. I think people respected Walter for his honesty and frankness. In talking about the question of race, because if you don't talk about it, you can't deal with it.

Dr. Dave Gosse: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: And I think that's the problem in the Caribbean. We don't want to engage issues, which are very painful, around race. So Walter was able to unite the working peoples of Guyana, not so much political parties, but the working peoples. And if you saw his funeral, you would see that Indians and Africans turned out to his funeral.

Dr. Dave Gosse: Yes, thank you so very much. I don't think we want to— unless, Hugh, we're back. Yes, hand over to you. I think we have to kind of—

Hugh Dowse: We're wrapping up. Sorry.

Dr. Dave Gosse: You know, but I want to thank you so very much for what You have enlightened us more about Walter Rodney, the political statesman, the scholar, someone who we admire, we read about and admire, and it's a privilege to hear more about Walter Rodney, who will inform us as we go forward in trying to reconcile races and classes of persons and ensuring that the reparative justice agenda gets done. Thank you very much.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: Thank you.

Hugh Dowse: Thank you so much, Dr. Gosse. Thank you so much, Professor Shepherd. So there is— there are 2 more questions that we're going to take, and then we go. One is from one of our adjuncts and postgraduate students in the Institute of Caribbean Studies, Mr. Edward Knight. Could you go ahead, Mr. Knight, with your question? And while Mr. Knight is given the ability to speak— are you there, Mr. Knight? Okay, we're not hearing him. I'm going to read the question. Oh, okay. Yes, go ahead. Yes.

Edward Knight: So greetings, everyone. So it's more of a mixture of a comment and a question. Um, you know, all the ambitions that, um, Professor Shepherd would have made mention of, and, you know, in, in, in, in also the, the ambitions within, uh, the world of academia and, you know, current writers and scholars that are dealing with matters of activism, you know, with all this ambition, how are we going to deal with the, the The issue or the active culture that exists, where we realize that people have become more passive, they're not— they're not into the idea of activism, they're not into the idea of dealing with the plights of the working class. How do we contest that culture that exists, especially here in Jamaica? When you speak to people, they're not particularly interested in—

Hugh Dowse: Right.

Edward Knight: In any form of activism. I mean, when I was younger, I first came across Walter Rodney's work from actually Bryan Meeks, and then I had the chance to read Groundings. And when I spoke to my peers about his work and, you know, the things that were being said, there was no interest. So how do we tackle that culture, that comfort culture, that passive culture that I usually call it? How do we tackle that here?

Professor Vereen Shepherd: Yeah.

Edward Knight: in Jamaica and, by and large, the Caribbean?

Hugh Dowse: Could she be unmuted, please? Could Dr. Rodney be unmuted, please? Thank you.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: I'm going to turn that question over to Voreen or Dr. Goss. I really can't really give an answer. I'm an outsider. Living outside of the Caribbean, but I see some of the same struggles here in the U.S., and the Black Lives Movement has made a tremendous impact on people here. But you have to keep working at it. It's not a one-shot thing. You know, you have to keep struggling and engaging with people all the time. It's not just a one-shot event.

Dr. Dave Gosse: Yeah, I mean, I must say that I have seen over the last 2 years, resulting from Black Lives Matter, students are now more perceptive. They are connecting the dots. And I think going forward, you will see more students stepping up. But I know it's a general concern. I mean, some persons even blame— The media. Globalization, that globalization have brought a world of materialism, you know, and comfort. And so we are trying to just graduate to go and buy the Benz and enjoy life. But I think the Black Lives Matter somehow has reenergized our students. And I see it in my classes, for example, over the last 2 years, in contrast to like 3 or 4 years prior to. Students are just connecting the dots and want to know more and more about our history. And again, I know Professor Shepherd will agree with me here, you know, then that they're not exposed as well in our high schools as well to African history, to Caribbean history to a great extent. And in our classes, when we do our historical You know, studies and all that. Students are saying, I didn't know that, I didn't learn that. So we have a lot of work to do on the ground, but you are correct as well that there is some apathy among our students. But we have a lot of work to do as scholars to continue the work. And I'm sure that Professor Shepherd as well, she has been doing a lot of work in that regard. And I think the mantle is now in our court to continue that work that Walter started.

Dr. Kandia Mitchell-Hall: Thank you.

Hugh Dowse: Okay, thank you so much. Professor Shepherd, could she be unmuted, please?

Professor Vereen Shepherd: Thank you. Well, I don't even know if I see the— it's a good question, and I think it's a timely question. I don't see the level of interest in history That used to exist. I'm a bit depressed about the falling numbers in the history department, for example. And my view is that there is no mandatory history education in the Caribbean. It's not just in Jamaica. Very few students are doing history in the schools to the exam level. And when I say this, they keep telling me it's compulsory up to 9th grade. But you said— If you stopped doing Caribbean history in 9th grade, then so much would have missed you. You would know about Walter Rodney and his work, and so on. So I think the education system has failed us. And if, if, if the schools are not producing students who are aware, they're not going to enter the university and opt for history education. So it's a chain reaction that we are seeing. And we need to do something to lobby governments of the region to teach history. We are— our students, our young people are disconnected from their origins, their history, their past. And I think sometimes I think they think they came here by British Airways or something like that. Their ancestors, and not Zong and the Jesus and, and, and, and slavers like that. Just listen to the way people talk. We need language deconstruction. They talk about enslaved Africans as if they were some foreign people somewhere and not, and not members of their family. So unless we have history education, Caribbean studies seriously taught, I don't know what's going to happen. But I am encouraged a little bit because I've seen students at University of the West Indies now offering to come over to the Center for Reparation Research and volunteer. That to me is very encouraging. And I, and I, I have, as you know, I have a program Talking History because I felt, well, if nobody is teaching it in the schools, I better go on air and teach it, you know. And to be, to be, to be fair to university academics, many of us have engaged in rewriting the history. We have done textbooks, we work with CXC, and so on. University academics have done a lot, and historians have done a lot. But parents have a responsibility, and students who want to know more have a responsibility to lobby. I hope to see the day when the history department returns to what it was when Rodney and others were there. So it's on all of us, and we have to take responsibility and see what we can do to lobby, because if you don't know where you come from, you just drift.

Dr. Nicole Plummer: Thank you.

Professor Vereen Shepherd: You just drift. That's what's happening.

Hugh Dowse: Thank you so much, Professor Shepherd. I must chime in that the Caribbean Civilization course, which takes in all those students who avoid history or think they can't afford to do it because of what they are trying for their career path, has been able to engage a lot of those students who have not engaged history on all the issues that we would have been discussing, and many are here tonight, and their enlightenment leads them to other courses. There is a question here from a student— well, I presume he's a student— Davey. I'm going to read it. He says, hello, Dr. Rodney, Gen Z person here, so it's going to be long. I'm going to try and run through it as quickly as possible. He says, there are There's a few records that prove that Walter Rodney in his early life was largely influenced by women. Dr. Matthew Smith— well, Professor Smith, in his visual essay about Walter Rodney, the UWI tertiary students uncovered that while Walter was at Queen's College, his teacher would visit Jamaica to have lectures from Dr. Elsa Gouveia, the first Caribbean history professor in the region. And Rodney would write out his teacher's notes when he was back, and this largely fueled his love for history. As such, I'd love if Dr. Rodney could expound on the role the women played during the protest. Yes, we know of you being a part of the protest, women creating sandwiches and creating signs, et cetera, et cetera.

Dr. Kandia Mitchell-Hall: Yes.

Hugh Dowse: But since organizing the protest has largely been about Dr. González, Bertram, Dr. Girvin, et cetera, et cetera, can you speak to the role that women and women students played during the protests, these groundings, when he ventured into oppressed communities across Kingston and St. Andrew, and his later life? I needed to read that question, because Gen Z wouldn't have it any other way. But I think it's a good question about the role of women, in particular, in the protests.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: Well, we know that women— if you look at the students, there were lots of women involved in the demonstration. There were lots of women who did the things he talked about. We are always the one to feed and nurture the brothers. And there are lots of women who have influenced Rodney's life— Elsa Kaviah, definitely. His mother, who we saw working very hard to support a family, and women around the Caribbean who, even in the Working People's Alliance, the women were the backbone of that political party. But we know that women are not often— their roles are not often recognized. And it's the onus on us As women, to say, this is what we do. You know, without us, you couldn't do all the things that you do. When our husbands are— or partners are in politics or the limelight, we are usually in the background doing all the things that have to be done, whether it's taking care of the children, looking after the home, looking after finances. Right. But women's role has always been marginalized. And it's up to us women and men who are feminists to take a stand and to talk about the role that women play in the struggle throughout the Caribbean. We know that women have always been involved in the struggle, whether it's enslaved people for independence, but Most times you just hear about the male leaders, but there's some phenomenal female leaders who have come out of Guyana during that pre-independence period.

Hugh Dowse: Thank you so much. And as you mentioned, women and the role of women, Jeanette Campbell says, in August 1918, Georgetown, I was told, when I returned from the Ake reku on the kuyini. A young Indian girl, a young mother told me that she had walked barefoot in Walter Rodney's funeral procession. And that was 30,000 or more persons. That funeral was huge. Slipping in one last one, I could— I have to do this like a good dancer can do. But what is the relationship like now? And this is from Dr. Lisa Tomlinson at the Institute of Caribbean Studies.

Professor Vereen Shepherd: Yes.

Hugh Dowse: What is the relationship like now between the Black and Indian population? Has that unity been achieved between the 2 groups? she asks. And in Guyana— I think this is in Guyana she's referring to.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: I think the relationship has deteriorated. People— I don't think— this is my own personal view. That Guyana will never develop or become stable until the 2 races come together. So, people have to work at doing that. I don't want to speak for Guyanese, because I don't live in Guyana, and I don't know the realities that people feel or people experience.

Dr. Dave Gosse: Right.

Dr. Patricia Rodney: But I think it's the only thing that will change Guyana for the best, when the 2 people come together in order to build a wonderful country.

Hugh Dowse: And on that note of unity, we want to thank you, Dr. Patricia Rodney, for your engagement this evening. We want to thank again our Respondents and conversants, Professor Vereen Shepherd and the director of the Institute of Caribbean Studies, Dr. Dave Gosse. And thanks to everyone with your questions. A lot of the questions came in later in the day, and I see some questions here that have been unanswered, but thanks. And many of them are on YouTube. You can look through again, and we are sure that more interaction will happen there when the live chat The chat is through. But now it's time for us to say goodbye. But before we go, we have to say thanks, like good Caribbean people. We can't turn our back and not say a big thank you for this remarkable, extremely unique— I think this lecture will stand out amongst all the lectures because we got the perspective like none other, the perspective of Walter Rodney's widow. Thank you so much. But the proper person to tell you the proper thanks is a wonderful scholar herself. She is a lecturer in Caribbean history and cultural studies, and she's in charge of undergraduate business in the Institute of Caribbean Studies, and she's a deputy dean of the Faculty of Humanities and Education. My dear friend, Dr. Nicole Plummer, will give the vote of thanks.

Dr. Nicole Plummer: Thank you, Hugh. Thank you very much. I am very honored to have been asked to give this vote of thanks. It is something that, um, that I can only say will happen probably once in my lifetime. So this was a very memorable lecture delivered by the Honorable Dr. Patricia Rodney. I think you'll all agree with me that through her personal, professional, and thoughtful speech, we reflected on the need for reparative justice as we still struggle to honor Black and brown bodies. We also wish to express our gratitude to Professor Shepherd. We want to thank Mr. Hugh Dowse for his very able handling of this evening's lecture. I want to thank Dr. Dave Gosse for spearheading this event as Director of the Institute of Caribbean Studies, Dr. Kandia Mitchell-Hall for her able introduction of the guest speaker, Ms. Isabel Dennis, Ms. Kadianne Williams, and Mrs. Bettine Ross-Laws who provided technical and administrative support. Thank you, audience, for bearing with us as we navigated technical issues. Thank you so much. Have a wonderful, wonderful evening, night, and weekend.

Hugh Dowse: Thank you so much, Dr. Nicole Plummer, for telling us thanks. And thank you, everyone, as Dr. Plummer has said. Thank you for your patience. Thank you for your engagement. Thank you for your questions. And thank you for continuing, more importantly, the tradition of Walter Rodney. not just in these lectures, but in living the life and affecting the business and ways of grassroots people, of students, and of everyone in our Caribbean and global societies. Walk good, everybody, and may good Duppy walk with you. Thanks again, Dr. Patricia Rodney. God bless. Bye. Thank you.